machine gun kelly Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 I have a feeling it will be #1 Mayfield, but it will be a toss up between Allen and Darnold. I believe Josh is doing everything he can to improve. It’s just too early to tell. This off-season is big for him. No combine, and pro days to prepare for can simply get a couple of weeks off, and then work on his craft all off-season, and then another year in Daboll’s playbook and coaching. I have hope and trust at this point. This free agency and draft is so important for a good year. 1
Mat68 Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 After the injury he was the best Qb in the class. He was the best player on the field when he was playing in a vast majority of games down the stretch. What he did vs Jacksonville is crazy. 2
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 6 hours ago, Utah John said: To compare Allen and Rosen, consider this -- the Cardinals are talking about taking another QB at #1 overall this year. If they do that, I assume they'll trade Rosen and get good value. But if the Bills were drafting #1, do you think they'd dump Allen at this point and move on? I sure don't. Yep, so glad we ended up with “wrong josh!” Can’t wait for this season to get rolling, haven’t been this psyched since 93 I think ?
3rdnlng Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 On 2/21/2019 at 8:23 PM, Michael1962 said: Is Buffalo really that windy? I lived near there for a long time and don't remember the wind being that significant. At least not compared with parts of Colorado. The wind swirls a lot in the stadium.
3rdnlng Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 18 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Transplant, your views were not "certainly reminiscent of many of these negative posts," as you try to put it. Your views were far far beyond them in negativity. Transplant, you say you're willing to admit when you're wrong. But that's not what happened. Evidence didn't change your view. The fact that it was the Bills that drafted him changed your view. Your habit is to pick one Bills QB and venerate him. This wasn't some change you were making. This was an exact continuation of your old M.O. ... pick your fave Bills QB, and perceive him positively regardless of what the evidence actually shows. You didn't change your mind from evidence. You slotted Josh Allen into your "he's my guy regardless of what happens" slot and started perceiving him differently. He's your new Tyrod. And if I "went radio silence when I was blatantly wrong," I would be on here all the time, without letup. It's you who's been wrong, Transie. Relentlessly. How many posts did you spend trying to argue that Tyrod was a franchise guy, that he was near-elite, that he was going to be here another year? It was well into the thousands, probably five thousand or more if you combine both boards. You're the guy with the relentless history of being wrong. I've been right. When I go radio silent, it's because I'm busy in my life and am improving my sense of the value of posting on here and how it compares in value to the alternatives. The times I'm on here a lot are generally times in my life when I'm procrastinating. If you see me gone for a few days, be happy for me, I'm doing something interesting. Do you have to question his sexuality too?
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 8 hours ago, Utah John said: To compare Allen and Rosen, consider this -- the Cardinals are talking about taking another QB at #1 overall this year. If they do that, I assume they'll trade Rosen and get good value. But if the Bills were drafting #1, do you think they'd dump Allen at this point and move on? I sure don't. The media is saying that not the Cardinals. They aren't moving on from Rosen.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 I wanted Allen over Darnold and Rosen, but would have been happy with Rosen. But come on board, Allen was a worse version of TT last year. Occasional big plays, lots of missed throws, lots of three and outs, lots of great runs, and triple the number of turnovers. Allen had some great moments that suggest he can be a great QB and he seemed to get better as the year went on, which was great to see. But I would take a step back before you start saying Rosen is a bust and Allen is a sure thing. Lots of time and lots of development needed. One thing is for sure, they both had the worst supporting casts in the NFL
Zerovoltz Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 On 2/21/2019 at 9:21 PM, MJS said: Anyone who thought Jackson should be drafted high in the 1st was on crack. He's got bust written all over him. Harbaugh will scheme him to some wins, but he'll flame out. His biggest weakness is the most fundamental aspect of playing QB: staying in the pocket and making throws. It's the same reason why Tyrod won't ever be a franchise guy. Russell Wilson can do it and Cam Newton can do it. Their running ability enhances their play, but it doesn't define it. If the best defense is to make you be a QB, you won't succeed at QB in the NFL. Uh....ummm.....err.....hmmm. 29 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: The media is saying that not the Cardinals. They aren't moving on from Rosen. Murray going 1/1 to Arizona. 1
Elite Poster Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 Threads like this are pointless to me. Can we let the kids play a season or two before jumping to conclusions? I never understood why we can't be happy our QB has potential to be good, and so do the other young guns. We have such a little man complex on this board sometimes.
Bangarang Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 Wasn’t the OP also someone who didn’t want anything to do with Allen?
oldmanfan Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Bangarang said: Wasn’t the OP also someone who didn’t want anything to do with Allen? Yes at the draft but as he watched him play he came around. It is OK for folks to change opinions when given more information is it not?
Commsvet11 Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Yes at the draft but as he watched him play he came around. It is OK for folks to change opinions when given more information is it not? That “more information” in this case is merely whether the person plays for the Bills or not.
oldmanfan Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Commsvet11 said: That “more information” in this case is merely whether the person plays for the Bills or not. I think in general it's OK for fans of a team to feel good about the players of their team. With Allen he showed some good stuff. Why not feel better than when he was drafted?
Bangarang Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Yes at the draft but as he watched him play he came around. It is OK for folks to change opinions when given more information is it not? So then what’s the point here? Is OP mocking people for having opinions that he at one point agreed with? Who’s to say those same people haven’t come around to Allen just like he did?
oldmanfan Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bangarang said: So then what’s the point here? Is OP mocking people for having opinions that he at one point agreed with? Who’s to say those same people haven’t come around to Allen just like he did? Well if he is he shouldn't. I do think though there are some who would rather brag about being right about a guy like Allen not being the guy vs. being wrong and having the team succeed with him.
Commsvet11 Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Well if he is he shouldn't. I do think though there are some who would rather brag about being right about a guy like Allen not being the guy vs. being wrong and having the team succeed with him. There is that line again, a poster rather be right than the team succeed. It is so stupid, if there is a valid argument and it comes to pass that a poster prediction is right you would get mad at the poster instead of asking why a poster knew this but not a FO. The the only reason we are happy we are right is because then a change is being made for the better of the team. 1
oldmanfan Posted February 24, 2019 Posted February 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Commsvet11 said: There is that line again, a poster rather be right than the team succeed. It is so stupid, if there is a valid argument and it comes to pass that a poster prediction is right you would get mad at the poster instead of asking why a poster knew this but not a FO. The the only reason we are happy we are right is because then a change is being made for the better of the team. I don't think so. Regrettably I believe there are a few folks would would rather the team not succeed so they can brag about being right on a message board, or wallow in some kind of self-pity about the team. We all are critical from time to time but there are those who insist on only being negative. I don't get that, maybe you do. We clearly don't agree, I won't change your mind nor vice versa. 1
transplantbillsfan Posted February 24, 2019 Author Posted February 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Bangarang said: So then what’s the point here? Is OP mocking people for having opinions that he at one point agreed with? Who’s to say those same people haven’t come around to Allen just like he did? I think I have explained this a million times, but once again, what actually happened was that after we drafted Allen, I was miserable because I thought we made a terrible choice. However, my basis for that opinion was such a teeny tiny amount of game-watching and almost no background research into the kid. I truly was convinced we wouldn't make what I believed--based on an extremely inadequate research/game-watching--that we would NOT draft Allen. Someone early in the thread asked why I believed that. I believed it because I was convinced--based on an extremely inadequate research/game-watching--that Buffalo was going to trade up to #1 or #2 for Darnold OR trade up to the #4 to #10 range for Rosen or Mayfield. Mayfield was the guy I wanted exponentially more than any other QB, but I would have been happy with Darnold and would have settled for Rosen. But, based on an extremely inadequate research/game-watching, I loathed the idea of drafting Allen. I truly didn't think Mayfield would go #1 and thought we had a great shot at him. I thought his height and "attitude" would keep him from being drafted #1, so I actually felt pretty confident we'd find a way to get either Darnold or Mayfield. I was just so confident Beane would work magic and get "his guy," and I think he did, but it happened to be a guy I had barely researched/game-watched. Keep in mind, I hate college football. It's weird, but I love the NFL, but find college football annoying. So I barely watch it until draft time comes and I can only see highlights. But just looking at Allen's stats, the team he was on and the competition he played against before looking at some of his highlights, I just thought there was no way in HELL we'd draft him. And I was massively wrong. And he was now the QB for the team I loved. And it made me sick. And so I did what I should have done before the draft. I stayed up the night we drafted him and watched just as much YouTube "gamefilm" along with some background videos on him and read up on him. And that was what changed my mind. Drafting him was what forced me to do what I should have done before the draft. My problem with a lot of the "experts" is that I would've thought they would've done all that prior to the draft themselves considering it's, ya know, their jobs. And now a season has played out where Allen took on the Herculean role of carrying an offense most of the time he was on the field--much like I came to discover pre-draft he did at Wyoming--and several of these guys who had strongly negative opinions before the draft may have changed their opinions (can you direct me to those? Or were you just speculating?), but several clearly haven't: And here's another draft reaction from the Bill Barnwell run Ringer... though this article isn't wrtitten by him: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2018/4/27/17289496/2018-draft-winners-losers-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-lamar-jackson-baltimore-ravens The Winners and Losers From Round 1 of the NFL Draft Loser: The Buffalo Bills I would consider any team that used a first-round pick on Josh Allen to be the biggest loser of the first round. No good NFL quarterback has ever had statistics as bad as Allen’s college stats; his best-case statistical comparables include Brian Griese and Josh McCown. There are just so many videos of him missing easy passes so badly. Sure, his arm is strong enough that teams should value his potential, but “extremely strong quarterback who may never learn how to throw to receivers” seems to me like a Day 3 pick, not a first-rounder. I remain baffled that he was treated like a top prospect throughout the entire draft process. But the Bills didn’t just draft Allen. They traded up to get him, giving up two second-round picks to move up five spots. That’s a massive overpay on any draft value chart. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25518645/nfl-rookie-quarterback-progress-reports-2018-draft-picks-shown-far NFL rookie QB progress reports: What 2018 picks have shown so far Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills Pick: No. 7 | Starts: 8 | Total QBR: 57.1 Bills fans who were frustrated by Tyrod Taylor's low-risk, modest-reward efficiency looked to get the polar opposite when the Bills drafted Allen out of Wyoming. His prototypical arm strength and propensity for attacking teams downfield was supposed to augur a new era for the Bills' offense. Instead, so far, the Bills have witnessed ... a less impressive version of Taylor. The same frustrated fans who were sick of Taylor failing to hit 200 passing yards in a game have seen Allen average 181.6 passing yards in his eight full starts. He is completing just 52.4 percent of his passes while throwing his average pass 10.5 yards in the air. (Over his three years in Buffalo, Taylor completed 62.6 percent of his passes while throwing them an average of 9.0 yards in the air.) Allen has added an unwanted propensity for interceptions, given that his nine picks are nearly as many as the 10 Taylor threw over his final two seasons in Buffalo combined. ... As a passer, though, it's difficult to see any signs of improvement from Allen. His numbers are horrific -- he ranks last among qualifying signal-callers in passer rating (62.8) and QBR on pass attempts (26.8) -- and don't bear any resemblance to the quarterback Allen was supposed to be coming out of college. His deep balls have been scattershot at best; on throws 16 or more yards downfield, his passer rating is 36.2, which is nearly 20 points worse than any other qualifying passer. His Total QBR on those throws is also last in the league.
Bangarang Posted February 24, 2019 Posted February 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I think I have explained this a million times, but once again, what actually happened was that after we drafted Allen, I was miserable because I thought we made a terrible choice. However, my basis for that opinion was such a teeny tiny amount of game-watching and almost no background research into the kid. I truly was convinced we wouldn't make what I believed--based on an extremely inadequate research/game-watching--that we would NOT draft Allen. Someone early in the thread asked why I believed that. I believed it because I was convinced--based on an extremely inadequate research/game-watching--that Buffalo was going to trade up to #1 or #2 for Darnold OR trade up to the #4 to #10 range for Rosen or Mayfield. Mayfield was the guy I wanted exponentially more than any other QB, but I would have been happy with Darnold and would have settled for Rosen. But, based on an extremely inadequate research/game-watching, I loathed the idea of drafting Allen. I truly didn't think Mayfield would go #1 and thought we had a great shot at him. I thought his height and "attitude" would keep him from being drafted #1, so I actually felt pretty confident we'd find a way to get either Darnold or Mayfield. I was just so confident Beane would work magic and get "his guy," and I think he did, but it happened to be a guy I had barely researched/game-watched. Keep in mind, I hate college football. It's weird, but I love the NFL, but find college football annoying. So I barely watch it until draft time comes and I can only see highlights. But just looking at Allen's stats, the team he was on and the competition he played against before looking at some of his highlights, I just thought there was no way in HELL we'd draft him. And I was massively wrong. And he was now the QB for the team I loved. And it made me sick. And so I did what I should have done before the draft. I stayed up the night we drafted him and watched just as much YouTube "gamefilm" along with some background videos on him and read up on him. And that was what changed my mind. Drafting him was what forced me to do what I should have done before the draft. My problem with a lot of the "experts" is that I would've thought they would've done all that prior to the draft themselves considering it's, ya know, their jobs. And now a season has played out where Allen took on the Herculean role of carrying an offense most of the time he was on the field--much like I came to discover pre-draft he did at Wyoming--and several of these guys who had strongly negative opinions before the draft may have changed their opinions (can you direct me to those? Or were you just speculating?), but several clearly haven't: And here's another draft reaction from the Bill Barnwell run Ringer... though this article isn't wrtitten by him: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2018/4/27/17289496/2018-draft-winners-losers-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-lamar-jackson-baltimore-ravens The Winners and Losers From Round 1 of the NFL Draft Loser: The Buffalo Bills I would consider any team that used a first-round pick on Josh Allen to be the biggest loser of the first round. No good NFL quarterback has ever had statistics as bad as Allen’s college stats; his best-case statistical comparables include Brian Griese and Josh McCown. There are just so many videos of him missing easy passes so badly. Sure, his arm is strong enough that teams should value his potential, but “extremely strong quarterback who may never learn how to throw to receivers” seems to me like a Day 3 pick, not a first-rounder. I remain baffled that he was treated like a top prospect throughout the entire draft process. But the Bills didn’t just draft Allen. They traded up to get him, giving up two second-round picks to move up five spots. That’s a massive overpay on any draft value chart. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25518645/nfl-rookie-quarterback-progress-reports-2018-draft-picks-shown-far NFL rookie QB progress reports: What 2018 picks have shown so far Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills Pick: No. 7 | Starts: 8 | Total QBR: 57.1 Bills fans who were frustrated by Tyrod Taylor's low-risk, modest-reward efficiency looked to get the polar opposite when the Bills drafted Allen out of Wyoming. His prototypical arm strength and propensity for attacking teams downfield was supposed to augur a new era for the Bills' offense. Instead, so far, the Bills have witnessed ... a less impressive version of Taylor. The same frustrated fans who were sick of Taylor failing to hit 200 passing yards in a game have seen Allen average 181.6 passing yards in his eight full starts. He is completing just 52.4 percent of his passes while throwing his average pass 10.5 yards in the air. (Over his three years in Buffalo, Taylor completed 62.6 percent of his passes while throwing them an average of 9.0 yards in the air.) Allen has added an unwanted propensity for interceptions, given that his nine picks are nearly as many as the 10 Taylor threw over his final two seasons in Buffalo combined. ... As a passer, though, it's difficult to see any signs of improvement from Allen. His numbers are horrific -- he ranks last among qualifying signal-callers in passer rating (62.8) and QBR on pass attempts (26.8) -- and don't bear any resemblance to the quarterback Allen was supposed to be coming out of college. His deep balls have been scattershot at best; on throws 16 or more yards downfield, his passer rating is 36.2, which is nearly 20 points worse than any other qualifying passer. His Total QBR on those throws is also last in the league. Why would you assume the “experts” didn’t do their homework? The draft isn’t some exact science where you can crunch some numbers that guarantee how a player develops at the NFL level. And Allen hasn’t proven the critics wrong just yet so I’m not sure what a thread like this is out to prove. You had such a negative view of Allen and wanted nothing to do with him like so many others.
transplantbillsfan Posted February 24, 2019 Author Posted February 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: Why would you assume the “experts” didn’t do their homework? The draft isn’t some exact science where you can crunch some numbers that guarantee how a player develops at the NFL level. And Allen hasn’t proven the critics wrong just yet so I’m not sure what a thread like this is out to prove. You had such a negative view of Allen and wanted nothing to do with him like so many others. Forget it. Guess we're just talking around each other.
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