teef Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Who's saying they're deceptive? I'm not. They've been up front that this is going to take time. I'm questioning why, at this point, it's likely going to be a 4 off-season rebuilding process when multiple teams are getting into the playoffs in much less time this decade. I also find it hilarious that fans who are just enjoying the ride find themselves on message boards during the off-season. That's doesn't indicate someone's a "casual" fan. It likely means you're interested in the team and what they're doing. One would think that would also include a debate about how they're going to win as quickly as possible. i wasn't say that you found anything deceptive. not directed at you. it may take 3 years and it may take 4. if this team becomes a regular playoff fixture, does it really matter, or is it something to grip about> and the last comment is bizarre. i'm a casual fan who's here all year round. i enjoy the team, i'm from the area, but if the they don't make the playoffs again, guess what? it doesn't effect my life. i won't feel the need to come and cry on a message board, calling out positivity, calling posters homers, etc. 27 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Deceptive? Nah, I think many fans feel it shouldn't take 4 years to build a Super bowl contending team in the modern day NFL. Considering QBs and teams across the league have consistently made substantial jumps from year 1 to year 2, it shouldnt be asking a lot to expect the same for the Bills this coming season. well since you don't think it should take 4 years, then this staff sucks! is that what you want to hear? as i asked with billsvet, it this team is a regular in the playoffs after 4 years and not 3, does it really matter? i'm just more concerned that it may never happen at all. 1
Bangarang Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said: Not when eating dead cap, they don't. And yet they were able to build up the defense. 1 hour ago, BillsVet said: So it's beyond me how anyone thinks they'll build a competent offense in one off-season. Sure, there's Allen and hopefully a motivated Dawkins, but no one else on that side of the ball is proven. People love to reference the Bears' rebuild, but their OL was largely built heading into year 2 of Trubisky. They added pass catchers and had some youth at RB. Again, it isn’t expecting them to build an offense in one offseason. This is McD’s 3rd offseason and Beane’s 2nd at doing this. Are we to believe it takes 4 or more seasons to put a competent offense together?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 36 minutes ago, Bangarang said: And yet they were able to build up the defense. Again, it isn’t expecting them to build an offense in one offseason. This is McD’s 3rd offseason and Beane’s 2nd at doing this. Are we to believe it takes 4 or more seasons to put a competent offense together? When you have to replace the whole thing because it sucks and is overpaid? Yes.
SoCal Deek Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 I’m not convinced the roster turnover is all that unusual. Especially when you consider the front office and coaching change. Isn’t the average player’s career still something like 4 years at best? 1
teef Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: Chances are isn't happening in year 4 if it isn't seen in year 3. Id be interested to see how many coaches/GMs actually succeeded in their 4th year with a team after three years of mediocrity to below average football. Based on what? I mean...if this team looks the exact same way they did this past season, I’ll agree with you. But if the bills win 9 games, miss the playoffs, and Allen looks much improved, I’ll be excited for the following season. I have no no idea why some people are fixated on year 3. I’d love for it to happen this year too, and it may, but this is a plan that should set the bills up for years to come. If it finally kicks in on year 4 as opposed to 3...fine. There’s already a sense that some can wait to call for this staff to be fired, even though they took us to the playoffs in year one, (I know, I know...it was a giant mistake and should never have happened).
BillsVet Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: Again, it isn’t expecting them to build an offense in one offseason. This is McD’s 3rd offseason and Beane’s 2nd at doing this. Are we to believe it takes 4 or more seasons to put a competent offense together? With these guys, it might take 4 seasons to get it right. In the wake of players like Vlad Ducasse, Andre Holmes, Mike Tolbert, Anquan Boldin, Kelvin Benjamin, Marshall Newhouse, Corey Coleman, Chris Ivory, and Zay Jones what makes you believe they're going to pick good offensive starters this year and beyond? I'm optimistic for Allen, but they've done little to put together a competent offense in the first two off-seasons. Edited February 18, 2019 by BillsVet
teef Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Oh I 100% agree. Depends on a lot of factors. If the Bills go 8-8 but lose a couple close games on a couple unlucky breaks and Allen looks like the real deal I don't think you fire these guys. If they go 6-10 with more blow outs and Allen struggles then they should all go. Obviously, a 10-12 win season with a very good Allens and offense and everyone is happy. I’m in board with all of this. There has to be growth. Significant growth. 1
Augie Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 41 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: When you have to replace the whole thing because it sucks and is overpaid? Yes. Especially when the early resources were spent on the other side of the ball. They had priorities and a plan. That’s better than anything we’ve seen in a long time. Now.....let’s hope it works! 1
BuffAlone Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) On 2/16/2019 at 11:06 PM, BADOLBILZ said: I noted in another thread today that Shaq was the only Bills-drafted player left on the roster pre-McD. Kinda' dispels the whole "McD doesn't have his guys" myth. Okay, McD has had 2 drafts. Beane 1. They cut a bunch of guys who weren't "their" guys, signed some guys. That by NO MEANS indicates that they now have all of "their" guys. I mean c'mon man, do you think they are done collecting "their" guys? Im guessing any chance they get to upgrade the roster in their image, will be taken. Guys they signed are ALL able to be cut if an upgrade presents itself.All we really know for sure is who was NOT their guys, as they were either cut, or traded. You don't remake a 53 man roster in 2 years. Kinda dispels your take if you look at it like that, don't it? ? Edited February 18, 2019 by BuffAlone
Aussie Joe Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 4 hours ago, BillsVet said: It's setting in for a lot of people that, even with all that cap room and their usual complement of higher picks, they're not going to suddenly go from 6 to 11 wins this season. 10 wins will be ok.
eball Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, BillsVet said: With these guys, it might take 4 seasons to get it right. In the wake of players like Vlad Ducasse, Andre Holmes, Mike Tolbert, Anquan Boldin, Kelvin Benjamin, Marshall Newhouse, Corey Coleman, Chris Ivory, and Zay Jones what makes you believe they're going to pick good offensive starters this year and beyond? I'm optimistic for Allen, but they've done little to put together a competent offense in the first two off-seasons. See, this is where I think your argument falls apart. There were -- if you cared to look -- legitimate reasons for bringing in all of these guys. Ducasse was rated highly his previous season. Holmes was a ST ace. Tolbert was a transition guy to preach McD's message. Boldin? No harm no foul -- you're critical of them for trying to bring him in? Benjamin got hurt. Coleman was a complete flyer for peanuts -- a 1st rounder they got to take a look at. Ivory wasn't bad at all last year. Jones struggled his rookie year but was coming on last season and could be a very solid piece of the WR room. They didn't miss on any "big" free agent signings because they had no cap room to get one. Do they get no credit for Foster? Dawkins? Teller? McKenzie? The trades that landed them Allen and Edmunds? For some unknown reason you and a few others are implicating McD and Beane in some masterminded 4+ year rebuilding plan when that is clearly not their intention. You tell me the team at the end of 2016 was "a couple of pieces" away from contending and I'll call b.s. They still had no QB and they had a financial disaster on their hands. It's pretty remarkable the remake of the roster that has taken place in two short years. With the cap restraints they were under they went "bargain basement" shopping for free agents and most haven't panned out. It doesn't mean they are incompetent or don't know what good offensive players look like. What if Richie Incognito hadn't gone off the deep end and Eric Wood hadn't retired? Think the offense would have been better last year? Both of those surprises left the Bills in a bind going into 2018. May we please get a look at what Beane can bring in when he isn't constrained by an empty wallet? As for expectations this season? I'm looking at the offense that finished last year, not the one that began it -- with expectations of several pieces added during free agency and the draft. I'm also looking at a top 5 defense. I'm looking at improved ST (since they can't get much worse). And they are actually riding some momentum, finishing 2018 on a 4-3 run with two last minute losses. I don't know why anyone wouldn't look at the shape of the franchise right now and expect improvement in 2019. I don't see a team looking to make excuses and pointing towards 2020. 2
BADOLBILZ Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, eball said: See, this is where I think your argument falls apart. There were -- if you cared to look -- legitimate reasons for bringing in all of these guys. Ducasse was rated highly his previous season. Holmes was a ST ace. Tolbert was a transition guy to preach McD's message. Boldin? No harm no foul -- you're critical of them for trying to bring him in? Benjamin got hurt. Coleman was a complete flyer for peanuts -- a 1st rounder they got to take a look at. Ivory wasn't bad at all last year. Jones struggled his rookie year but was coming on last season and could be a very solid piece of the WR room. They didn't miss on any "big" free agent signings because they had no cap room to get one. You lost me at just addressing KB as "Benjamin got hurt". That clearly was not the only problem with Benjamin. This paragraph from top to bottom is a good example of why your takes are so consistently.......one-sidedly......comically..... awful.
eball Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: You lost me at just addressing KB as "Benjamin got hurt". That clearly was not the only problem with Benjamin. This paragraph from top to bottom is a good example of why your takes are so consistently.......one-sidedly......comically..... awful. KB got hurt in like his 2nd or 3rd game with the Bills. He was never the same afterwards. Is this not true?
BillsVet Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, eball said: See, this is where I think your argument falls apart. There were -- if you cared to look -- legitimate reasons for bringing in all of these guys. Ducasse was rated highly his previous season. Holmes was a ST ace. Tolbert was a transition guy to preach McD's message. Boldin? No harm no foul -- you're critical of them for trying to bring him in? Benjamin got hurt. Coleman was a complete flyer for peanuts -- a 1st rounder they got to take a look at. Ivory wasn't bad at all last year. Jones struggled his rookie year but was coming on last season and could be a very solid piece of the WR room. They didn't miss on any "big" free agent signings because they had no cap room to get one. Do they get no credit for Foster? Dawkins? Teller? McKenzie? The trades that landed them Allen and Edmunds? For some unknown reason you and a few others are implicating McD and Beane in some masterminded 4+ year rebuilding plan when that is clearly not their intention. You tell me the team at the end of 2016 was "a couple of pieces" away from contending and I'll call b.s. They still had no QB and they had a financial disaster on their hands. It's pretty remarkable the remake of the roster that has taken place in two short years. With the cap restraints they were under they went "bargain basement" shopping for free agents and most haven't panned out. It doesn't mean they are incompetent or don't know what good offensive players look like. What if Richie Incognito hadn't gone off the deep end and Eric Wood hadn't retired? Think the offense would have been better last year? Both of those surprises left the Bills in a bind going into 2018. May we please get a look at what Beane can bring in when he isn't constrained by an empty wallet? As for expectations this season? I'm looking at the offense that finished last year, not the one that began it -- with expectations of several pieces added during free agency and the draft. I'm also looking at a top 5 defense. I'm looking at improved ST (since they can't get much worse). And they are actually riding some momentum, finishing 2018 on a 4-3 run with two last minute losses. I don't know why anyone wouldn't look at the shape of the franchise right now and expect improvement in 2019. I don't see a team looking to make excuses and pointing towards 2020. You are the AOC of this board now and I really don't know what this is...other than word salad. Edited February 18, 2019 by BillsVet 2
Bangarang Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: When you have to replace the whole thing because it sucks and is overpaid? Yes. Except, they didn’t have to replace the whole thing. We’ve also seen teams flip rosters and be successful faster than the 5 years some fans think it requires t field a competitive team 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, Bangarang said: Except, they didn’t have to replace the whole thing. We’ve also seen teams flip rosters and be successful faster than the 5 years some fans think it requires t field a competitive team Yeah, they really kind of did. Were they a fantastic running team? Yes. Could they pass the ball, at all? Not even close. I'm beginning to think that fans who share your view are mathematically challenged. This will be Beane's second draft, and McDermott's third.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 2 hours ago, eball said: KB got hurt in like his 2nd or 3rd game with the Bills. He was never the same afterwards. Is this not true? No.......it's not true. Your "facts to takes" ratio is impossibly low. We need a new stat for you.........Takes Below Replacement. KB flat out sucked for a year and a half in Buffalo..........do a little work rather than just bickering using fact-free opinions.
eball Posted February 19, 2019 Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: No.......it's not true. Your "facts to takes" ratio is impossibly low. We need a new stat for you.........Takes Below Replacement. KB flat out sucked for a year and a half in Buffalo..........do a little work rather than just bickering using fact-free opinions. Fact - KB injured his knee in the infamous Peterman game - his 2nd or 3rd with the Bills. Many - not just me - have opined that he has never truly recovered from that injury. Fact - KB was a good (not great) player in Carolina. Fact - when the Bills acquired KB many - not just me - felt it was a great move to give the Bills a solid option at WR. The revisionist history practiced by you and others to trash the KB deal as if you knew how it would turn out at the time is pathetic. 3 hours ago, BillsVet said: You are the AOC of this board now and I really don't know what this is...other than word salad. Nice cop out. When you can’t answer, insult. Figures you’d choose that particular individual as well. Edited February 19, 2019 by eball
Chuck Schick Posted February 19, 2019 Posted February 19, 2019 22 hours ago, teef said: I’m in board with all of this. There has to be growth. Significant growth. For me, there is genuine hope that this plan is going to work out. Of course we have no idea....there are a ton of moving pieces. But I can't help but appreciate the decisiveness and strategic effort this regime has shown so far. I'm not afraid that they're going to get outworked, that's for sure.
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