Bills have only 5 players left from before McDermott arrived

[Jpsredemption]

5 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

To me it seems like these guys would rather lose with their guys, then win with someone else’s guys. Since day 1 it has looked like Mcd and Beane were on a mission to purge the roster of Whaley’s players. It sucks because some of them probably could have helped us beat Jacksonville. I get the idea of bringing in a new attitude but you have to see what you have before you just run a wrecking ball through. 

A primary reason that regimes flame out quickly. Often times “their guys” are inferior talent wise. Letting good players go because they aren’t yours is the worst logic imaginable..and there is no disputing that players they’ve let walk or purged off the roster have produced. 

[Gugny]

 

4 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Just because they brought in players, it does not mean all of those players are "their guys." That is a pretty superficial assessment from someone who should know better.

 

So Beane and McDermott got rid of other people's guys so they could go out and get their own other people's guys.  Interesting.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Gugny

[Green Lightning]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

You’re not missing the highest graded CB in the NFL (and a first team all-pro with a huge SB INT)?

Not for the coin he got. Would help if he ever even tried to make a tackle in run support. Our secondary is low on my concerns.

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

So Beane and McDermott got rid of other people's guys so they could go out and get their own other people's guys.  Interesting.

I'm pretty sure it was evident from the entire post what I meant by that statement...

[formerlyofCtown]

13 hours ago, Augie said:

WOW! That’s just crazy stuff. But I can’t say it disappoints me. We were old and we lacked talent. Sounds like it could be worse. I hope we get younger and cheaper. 

 

 

 

.

We definitely didnt lack talent.  We lacked a good coach and were stuck in QB purgatory.  Beane traded a lot of that talent to get us out of QB purgatory. 

 

It looks like it worked.

35 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

A primary reason that regimes flame out quickly. Often times “their guys” are inferior talent wise. Letting good players go because they aren’t yours is the worst logic imaginable..and there is no disputing that players they’ve let walk or purged off the roster have produced. 

They used all that talent to get a QB.

[formerlyofCtown]

30 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

So Beane and McDermott got rid of other people's guys so they could go out and get their own other people's guys.  Interesting.

No Gugs they sacrificed that talent to get a QB and team first guys.  Why would they spend top dollar on a CB when they dont seem to have a problem finding them.  In reality I think they mostly got something out of players that didnt want to or werent going to be here anyway.

[Gugny]

20 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I'm pretty sure it was evident from the entire post what I meant by that statement...

 

1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

No Gugs they sacrificed that talent to get a QB and team first guys.  Why would they spend top dollar on a CB when they dont seem to have a problem finding them.  In reality I think they mostly got something out of players that didnt want to or werent going to be here anyway.

 

I get it.  I took the comment out of context and for that, I apologize.

[formerlyofCtown]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

 

I get it.  I took the comment out of context and for that, I apologize.

Its ok this is TSW you wouldnt belong here if you didnt do that from time to time?

[Logic]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Jury is way out on all of those offensive players outside of maybe Dawkins.

 

I agree that the jury is still out on most of them. However, I'd also say that just about all of them have shown promise. Promise is more than we saw from a lot of previous era Bills players.

I'm all for playing the "wait and see" game with regard to Beane's players, but so far the early returns look promising.

[IgotBILLStopay]

13 hours ago, Augie said:

WOW! That’s just crazy stuff. But I can’t say it disappoints me. We were old and we lacked talent. Sounds like it could be worse. I hope we get younger and cheaper. 

 

 

 

.

Not sure this is true. Brown, Ragland, Dareus, Glenn, Watkins, Darby, Gilmore (FA), Woods (FA), Goodwin (FA), even Tyrod not really old or talentless, no?

 

That said we were definitely not doing well in maximizing their talent. Also we were heading for Cap purgatory - there was no way we could sign Gilmore. So, on the whole, McBeane have done well. But it is a stretch from that to say Bills were old AND lacked talent pre-McDermott.

 

The fact we couldnt get past 8 wins says more about Rex's coaching fit than our roster's age and talent. With the exception of Tyrod  - all the others have not disappointed in a different coaching environment.

Edited February 17, 2019 by IgotBILLStopay

[BUFFALOKIE]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

  As someone with a French mom, all I can say is: Vive la difference!

 

Pics, or it didn't happen.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

Actually that was very simple.  The  team was in cap-hell and they couldn't pay these upcoming FA's (Gilmore, Woods, Darby. Brown, Watkins) as they were already against the cap.  They did the smart thing of shipping them for draft picks that will be cheap for their first 3-4 years of the contract. That was the only way for them to come out of cap hell.  Would the Bill have wanted a shutdown corner like Gilmore or Darby...Absolutely..Did they have the money or cap space to pay them...Absolutely Not! 

 

Dareus was way over-paid and underwhelming.  There was no way they would have been able to keep the "Team First" Concept by not paying everyone but an under-achieving player.  

Cordy Glenn was the only head scratcher for me. Because we had a starting LT and especially when you lost your interior line to retirement, it would have been prudent to have preserved your starting LT.  But that was the only way for them to jump up the draft board to draft their franchise QB.  

Except they weren’t in cap hell. That only happened after they cut some of these guys and the dead money kicked in. The cap was managable. The crisis was manufactured by Beane. Thye could not have kept them all but they could and should have kept Gilmore and Watkins. I said it at the time. Dumb moves. And yes I know Gilmore decision was pre-Beane but McDermott made that call.

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, eball said:

No, but by all means, this wasn't a rebuild...at least that's what some around here have said. 

It wasnt.  It was a demolition followed by a rebuild.

17 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Except they weren’t in cap hell. That only happened after they cut some of these guys and the dead money kicked in. The cap was managable. The crisis was manufactured by Beane. Thye could not have kept them all but they could and should have kept Gilmore and Watkins. I said it at the time. Dumb moves. And yes I know Gilmore decision was pre-Beane but McDermott made that call.

I dont think Either was going to choose to stay here.

[Misterbluesky]

13 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

we missed Ritchie this year, but ah well.  too much risk I guess.

Yes sir..not having him and Wood side by side really hurt us...just look at Shady's numbers.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

You’re not missing the highest graded CB in the NFL (and a first team all-pro with a huge SB INT)?

 

The best pass defense in the NFL isn't missing anybody. The secondary is set for 4 years. Get me a pass rush and an offense.

[Logic]

People point out that not all the players the Bills jettisoned were old or untalented. This is true.

HOWEVER...

The objective from day 1 has been to build a TEAM. Not to build a collection of talent, but to build a TEAM.

Belichick has done this for years and years. Time and again, he has drafted players that had analysts and fans scratching their heads. But he doesn't care what anyone says or thinks because his main objective is to find guys that fit his vision and can do their jobs and play as a team. 

How many All-Star type collections of talented players have we seen come and go through the years in the NFL? And how many of them won championships? Just recently, the famous "Dream Team" Eagles (not the Super Bowl Eagles, but a few years before that with Vick and Asomougha, etc) were the greatest collection of talent on one football team that anyone had ever seen...and then the games started, and they sucked.

It's not about collecting talent, which is what Doug Whaley did. It's about building a team. If you want to know why seemingly talented players like Watkins, Glenn, etc aren't on the roster any more, ask yourself two questions: Were they a fit with the schemes McDermott wants to run? Were they a fit with the CULTURE McDermott wants to build? Odds are that in almost every case, the answer is "No" to one or both of those questions. The ONLY exception I can think of is Robert Woods, and he didn't want to re-sign here no matter what because of the way we underused him his first few years in the league. Every single other "super talented" player the Bills shipped off either didn't fit the scheme or didn't fit the culture. Simple.

[machine gun kelly]

14 hours ago, Logic said:

The reason this rebuild seems to be progressing well and giving us all hope is that after jettisoning the "old guard", the current front office has been capably re-stocking the cupboards.

To wit, the current core players for the Bills going forward:

Josh Allen
Dion Dawkins
Wyatt Teller
Robert Foster
Zay Jones

Tremaine Edmunds
Matt Milano
Tre'Davious White
Levi Wallace
Taron Johnson
Micah Hyde 
Jordan Poyer
Harrison Phillips
Star Lotulelei

That's a pretty darn good job setting a new foundation. They seem to have already found quality players at most key positions: QB, LT, CB1, Mike LB. They just need to draft a young, heir apparent edge rusher to complement/replace Hughes and Lawson. And on top of all of the above, as we all know, they'll be adding 10 or so new draftees and some free agents. 

Great work by McDermott, Beane and co.

 

There’s a good reason for you’re handle.  Well said.  I’m getting sick of people pulling the trigger too fast on Beane or McDermitt when they inherited a mess both in cap space, problem children and lack of talent.

 

This year and next year will tell whether not only do we have our franchise QB, but also our franchise administration, and coaches.  I know the soap opera will weaken this argument with Bell and AB, but the Steelers have had a ton of success hiring the right people, staying out of football decisions, and maintain continuity.  You can bash Marvin Lewis, but does everyone remember the Bengals were a mess before he came there, and maybe they didn’t win in the playoffs, but they went from perpetual losing seasons for 15 years to six consecutive playoff appearances.  His message got old, but is another example of success through continuity.

[Seasons1992]

15 hours ago, 2018 Our Year For Sure said:

 And hopefully eat as a receiver.

This is where he will have one more useful year if they use him properly. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Then guess what? 

 

The Culture excuse is long gone. 

 

McDermott has his culture. 

 

Now get some results. 

[eball]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Never was a believer in the "build a culture" shtick. 

 

Winning builds a culture. 

 

The Bills could've kept Gilmore and Watkins and simply drafted a Mahomes or Watson and they'd easily already be winning. 

 

Why are you so unhappy?