HOUSE Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: And it seems each and every one of the remaining players is/has been integral to McBeane's plans. Claims Shady will stay. Lorax & Ferguson extension. Talking Shaq up. Hughes is a wrecking ball and better be extended. Crazy. Shady is 50/50 at best Lawson is a gamble, just another player that put up better numbers in a contract year only to disappoint later.
ganesh Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Gilmore Woods Darby Zach Brown Goodwin Watkins Dareus Preston Brown Cordy Glenn Which of those dudes were old? Did I miss all the old dudes they got rid of? The choices had nothing to do with age...........they KEPT the OLD players.........that's why they still had the 6th oldest roster in the NFL last season and second oldest in McD's first season. Actually that was very simple. The team was in cap-hell and they couldn't pay these upcoming FA's (Gilmore, Woods, Darby. Brown, Watkins) as they were already against the cap. They did the smart thing of shipping them for draft picks that will be cheap for their first 3-4 years of the contract. That was the only way for them to come out of cap hell. Would the Bill have wanted a shutdown corner like Gilmore or Darby...Absolutely..Did they have the money or cap space to pay them...Absolutely Not! Dareus was way over-paid and underwhelming. There was no way they would have been able to keep the "Team First" Concept by not paying everyone but an under-achieving player. Cordy Glenn was the only head scratcher for me. Because we had a starting LT and especially when you lost your interior line to retirement, it would have been prudent to have preserved your starting LT. But that was the only way for them to jump up the draft board to draft their franchise QB. 2 1
MJS Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: You've never........ever........heard anyone claim that McD didn't have "his guys" yet? Ever-ever? Nope. You're just making things up. Plenty of other excuses, though.
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 To me it seems like these guys would rather lose with their guys, then win with someone else’s guys. Since day 1 it has looked like Mcd and Beane were on a mission to purge the roster of Whaley’s players. It sucks because some of them probably could have helped us beat Jacksonville. I get the idea of bringing in a new attitude but you have to see what you have before you just run a wrecking ball through.
ALF Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 The constant change of coaches and scheme causes a turnstile of players. Then you have salary cap problems to fix.
billsfan1959 Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I noted in another thread today that Shaq was the only Bills-drafted player left on the roster pre-McD. Kinda' dispels the whole "McD doesn't have his guys" myth. I believe what many posters have stated is that Beane and McDermott are in the process of building the team with the players they want. The players they let go, traded, or cut were players they felt were not worth the money they were being paid, that they didn't have the money to keep, that didn't fit their culture, etc. Some of the players they brought in are "their guys" such as Allen, Edwards, and others. Many of the players they brought in were nothing more than attempts to fill holes until they got into 2019 where they now have cap space and draft picks to start adding more quality talent - more players that are "their guys." Just because they brought in players, it does not mean all of those players are "their guys." That is a pretty superficial assessment from someone who should know better. 2
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I believe what many posters have stated is that Beane and McDermott are in the process of building the team with the players they want. The players they let go, traded, or cut were players they felt were not worth the money they were being paid, that they didn't have the money to keep, that didn't fit their culture, etc. Some of the players they brought in are "their guys" such as Allen, Edwards, and others. Many of the players they brought in were nothing more than attempts to fill holes until they got into 2019 where they now have cap space and draft picks to start adding more quality talent - more players that are "their guys." Just because they brought in players, it does not mean all of those players are "their guys." That is a pretty superficial assessment from someone who should know better. Narratives must be maintained. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 ...certainly hope the housecleaning was not primarily predicated on the egotistical "my guys versus their guys"........I don't think so, but it would be a huge waste of time and potential for a talent to get booted.....
todd Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 Some good players left in FA or were traded, but given the crap results when those players were on the team, it is hard to argue with resetting the roster. And some were overpaid by other teams, and because of a horrible cap situation (thanks, Whaley), there's no way we could have kept them. Along with that, getting rid of Dareus was fantastic. 2
HOUSE Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, ALF said: The constant change of coaches and scheme causes a turnstile of players. Then you have salary cap problems to fix. You would be amazed at the number of fans that buy into coaching changes. Its a disease.
Rico Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: And it seems each and every one of the remaining players is/has been integral to McBeane's plans. Claims Shady will stay. Lorax & Ferguson extension. Talking Shaq up. Hughes is a wrecking ball and better be extended. Crazy. LOVE it and it absolutely had to be done. The culture of losing and failure created by Ralph pretty much destroyed this franchise. I am sooooo happy that Ralph’s front office trash & almost all of the players tainted by them are gone. 1
formerlyofCtown Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: And it seems each and every one of the remaining players is/has been integral to McBeane's plans. Claims Shady will stay. Lorax & Ferguson extension. Talking Shaq up. Hughes is a wrecking ball and better be extended. Crazy. They also happen to be the best and most dependable players from before he was here so it makes sense.
Heitz Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: You've never........ever........heard anyone claim that McD didn't have "his guys" yet? Ever-ever? Yes, because there are only 5 players from the old regime, McD has ALL of “his guys”.? Come on man, some of the guys on the team are just bodies. Yes, this regime put them on the team, but doesn’t mean they’re all “their guys”. Players that were dropped were gone for a reason - attitude, cost, ability. Seems like it was covered in other posts... And, per usual, I’m going to trust the pros in charge vs the TBD minority that think we’d be better having not turned over the roster. ?? Go Bills!! 2 1
eball Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 No, but by all means, this wasn't a rebuild...at least that's what some around here have said. 1
billsfan_34 Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Augie said: Great, you think that’s witty. Thanks for proving my point. You have no defense. I think you can do better if you try. Even if your position is indefensible. ? (BTW - If we happen to be at the same game anywhere next year, I’d love to buy you a beer and talk.) I will have a few cold ones with ya, Augie!!! 1
eball Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I noted in another thread today that Shaq was the only Bills-drafted player left on the roster pre-McD. Kinda' dispels the whole "McD doesn't have his guys" myth. Also dispels your whole "this wasn't a rebuild" myth 1 1
Bangarang Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, ganesh said: Actually that was very simple. The team was in cap-hell and they couldn't pay these upcoming FA's (Gilmore, Woods, Darby. Brown, Watkins) as they were already against the cap. They did the smart thing of shipping them for draft picks that will be cheap for their first 3-4 years of the contract. That was the only way for them to come out of cap hell. Would the Bill have wanted a shutdown corner like Gilmore or Darby...Absolutely..Did they have the money or cap space to pay them...Absolutely Not! Dareus was way over-paid and underwhelming. There was no way they would have been able to keep the "Team First" Concept by not paying everyone but an under-achieving player. Cordy Glenn was the only head scratcher for me. Because we had a starting LT and especially when you lost your interior line to retirement, it would have been prudent to have preserved your starting LT. But that was the only way for them to jump up the draft board to draft their franchise QB. We were never in cap hell. Edited February 17, 2019 by Bangarang
dave mcbride Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Green Lightning said: Only five huh? I'm really not missing the rest of them. Edit: Except for Robert Woods. You’re not missing the highest graded CB in the NFL (and a first team all-pro with a huge SB INT)?
Magox Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) Anyone who believes that an organization is going to get in "all their kind of players" within a couple years is either being purposely obtuse or simply ignorant. Building a roster is not as simple as some people believe it to be. There are tons of considerations ranging from does that player fit the scheme? does he fit the culture? What is the cost towards the cap for that player? Can they replace that player with similar or higher level of play for less of a cost? What are the salary cap implications with that player? Does the organization value a certain position higher or lower than the previous and what are they willing to spend for that player at that position? Does the organization believe it can get quality players through the draft at certain positions on a consistent basis so that they don't have to pay high dollar contracts for that position? Do they value players higher on player availability and not being injury prone? The list goes on and on and on and it's not an exact science. All these variables fit into a puzzle. What some people are having a hard time getting through their thick skulls is that McDermott and Beane had a mandate when they came in. They sold their vision of what this organization should look like to Pegula and Pegula bought into it. They are executing their vision the way they see fit, will it work? That is yet to be determined but from my perspective they have cleaned house the way that I had hoped that they would, they have put in some key pieces to build this organization with and there is without doubt from my view a clear detailed plan to continue that vision, unlike Whaley who had an eye for talent but just put together pieces in a hodge podge manner and was terrible at placing a value on that talent. And just to revisit the criticism in some quarters that because they turned over just about the entire roster within 2 years and that is some sort of justification to their narrow points that this is proof positive that they do have "their guys" is devoid of any context. Yes, they got rid of the players but that doesn't mean the replacements are "their guys". Many of those players were never meant to be long-term replacements but rather place holders until they got in "their guys", their long-term replacement guys either via the draft or free agency. So this argument or point that they are trying to infer that these are their guys is simply put.......... Stupid. Some of the key pieces are there, the pain of freeing us up from salary cap hell has been made and now there will be more talent coming in than coming out because of the salary cap position that this organization is in. So no matter what how this all turns out, McD/Beane did it their way! And I'd rather have it no other way. Edited February 17, 2019 by Magox 2 1
hondo in seattle Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Gilmore Woods Darby Zach Brown Goodwin Watkins Dareus Preston Brown Cordy Glenn Which of those dudes were old? Did I miss all the old dudes they got rid of? The choices had nothing to do with age...........they KEPT the OLD players.........that's why they still had the 6th oldest roster in the NFL last season and second oldest in McD's first season. The quality of the players is so much more important than the age. But Badol is right... we kept the old players. Last year, we were the 28th youngest team in the league. Back in 2013, we were the 3rd youngest. And as all those youngsters matured and gained experienced, we didn't get any better. Being a young team doesn't help if you have the wrong youth. https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2018-edition/ I doubt that the turnover surprises many people. First of all, the NFL is a high turnover sport. On top of that we changed both our coach and our GM. McD - like every other coach - has a vision of what schemes he wants to run and what kind of players he wants to field. Almost inevitably, it's going to be different than Rex. And, almost inevitably, the way Beane drafts college players and evaluates FAs is going to be different than Whaley. As someone with a French mom, all I can say is: Vive la difference! Edited February 17, 2019 by hondo in seattle
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