Bean at his Witchery, Again!

[CuddyDark]

I believe the Ravens were trying to get Flacco into a good situation as well. It's a different history. They owe it to him.

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

ROC, whilst failing Kindergarden math, I contemplated the salary cap implications of both moves.

That does need to be taken into account.  

 

The Browns were risking 1 year at $16M, not a big risk for a 1 year rental of a QB who finished the 2017 season as a starter (not a great starter, but still)

The Ravens are taking on $18.5M in 2019 salary.  Public details are a bit sketchy, but reportedly there are injury guarantees in there and possibly some remaining guaranteed money?  This is big bucks for a guy who finished the year with his butt on the bench.

The Ravens kind of got the "taking on a bigger cap hit and contract for a guy who showed nothing lately" discount on the trade return.

 

I guess I kind of don't get your overall viewpoint on evaluating what was or was not a good move - I don't think that makes me either a Pat*** troll or an IV Hatorade junky to say that I think it seems like wearing blinders to look at a move only in the context of the draft pick the trading team received. 

 

I don't have a problem with the TT trade, but I do most certainly have a problem with the whole aggregate of Buffalo Bills QB moves and roster choices that left us with a training camp of barely-played McCarron, Peterman-threw-5-Picks, and Raw Rookie Allen then had us starting the season with Peterman-threw-5-Picks as the starting QB and no choice but to play Raw Rookie Allen by the second half of the season opener.

 

That was stupid, and as even Beane himself has publically acknowledged, a mistake. 

So it seems a bit weird to hang your hat on regarding one of the moves that left us in that situation as "witchery" and a win for Beane.

 

Just my opinion.

It wasn’t  a big financial risk for the Browns because they had the cap space. But giving up the 1st pick in the 3rd for a one year rental, when you were planning to take a QB #1 overall as well, is a very poor use of a valuable asset and I’m still surprised it happened. 3rd rd picks are 4 year cost control players. The 1st pick in the 3rd should yield a pretty decent player, likely a starter. They traded that for one year of a guy, who if all went “right”, didn’t play. And we all know now that Hue was the one who wanted TT to play over Baker, not Dorsey, who made the trade. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[eball]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

So it seems a bit weird to hang your hat on regarding one of the moves that left us in that situation as "witchery" and a win for Beane.

 

 

I think pick #65 was instrumental in Beane landing both Allen and Edmunds, and I don't think you'll find many folks who believe -- then or now -- that Tyrod was worthy of the first pick in the 3rd round.  So yeah, I think it's ok to call this one a win even in light of the QB fiasco to start the season.

[Rufridr101]

Tyrod in his defense just broke our playoff drought of 20+ years. Joe flaco hasn't made playoffs since Superbowl run and is often injured. 

[nucci]

53 minutes ago, cage said:

I'm a bit confused,...I don't recall Beane getting a lot of heat / slack when that trade was announced.  I think most people thought he got a great return.

because he didn't...most were surprised how much he received in return for a player that was going to be released

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

In an article today from Buffalo Rumblings, a salient point was made regarding Beane's continued witchery (link at bottom if the post). In it, Matt Warren notes that the Baltimore Ravens received a 4th round pick for Joe Flacco. We all know that Beane wrangled a 3rd rounder from the Browns for Tyrod. 

 

But if you break it down, the pick we got from the Browns was at least 40 spots higher (this is BEFORE compensatory picks are revealed) than the pick the Ravens received for Flacco. 

 

If you think what Beane pulled off was a bad move, in light of those numbers, you either:

 

1) Are a Pat***** troll

2) Failed Kindergarten math

3) Take Hatorade, introveniously 

 

Link:

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/2/13/18223460/denver-broncos-trade-for-joe-flacco-altering-buffalo-bills-2019-nfl-draft-trade-possibilities

 

Maybe we aren't the worst... maybe we sometimes make good moves. Maybe it's time to start to Billeve!

 

Not to mention an Oakland 5th rounder for Journeyman AJ McCarron  (4th pick in round 5) and also OL Newhouse for a 7th to Carolina, those are really good hauls for depth players.

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

because he didn't...most were surprised how much he received in return for a player that was going to be released

The only heat I recall was during the season when we were signing QBs off the street and people saying he should have kept Tyrod as a bridge and not done the trade at all. 

[CBD]

The return for Tyrod seemed excessive at the time, and now even moreso. 

 

The return for Flacco seems excessive right now. 

 

I wish Beane had a better plan to replace Tyrod after they received a 3rd round pick for him. 

[Aussie Joe]

I would love to know more about how the Tyrod trade went down..,

 

I doubt that Dorsey has offered pick 65 from the beginning.,,

 

I suspect that another team was interested- possibly the Cardinals, and there was some bidding going on... Cardinals wouldn’t go any higher than their mid third pick so Dorsey won  out, whilst the Cardinals had to pay out more money for Bradford in FA..

[John from Riverside]

To me this is the prove it year......I think Beane has done pretty well on the work leading up to this year.....but THIS is the year.....

 

I am not saying Super Bowl.....but we need to make the playoffs and actually take a huge leap forward.

[mjt328]

Brandon Beane did a great job getting a high 3rd Round Pick for Tyrod Taylor.

Absolutely no doubt about it.

 

However... the salary cap must be taken into account when talking about trades.

Teams aren't just trading for a player.  They are also trading for his contract.

 

I've defended Beane trading away Marcel Dareus for a 7th Round pick.  Regardless of how much Dareus' fell play off, it certainly wasn't to the level of a 7th Round Pick.  Unless you factor in the contract we were shedding.

[Freddie's Dead]

Introveniously?  

[John from Riverside]

Look at the actual contract for the OG/OC we just brought in

 

Yes....he is at it again.

[blacklabel]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

Except Beane's not graded on how well he does on individual trades, even though everyone wants to declare victory immediately on moves these days.

 

Beane is graded on building a roster, and through 2 off-seasons he and McCoach have a far from finished product ready to compete and win championships.

 

You can take your individual trade victories, but over the long haul it doesn't matter. 

 

 

Who's grading him? We're just saying he was able to do better in a trade for a player less talented than Flacco. Trades can matter in the long term as well, see Hughes, Jerry.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

In an article today from Buffalo Rumblings, a salient point was made regarding Beane's continued witchery (link at bottom if the post). In it, Matt Warren notes that the Baltimore Ravens received a 4th round pick for Joe Flacco. We all know that Beane wrangled a 3rd rounder from the Browns for Tyrod. 

 

But if you break it down, the pick we got from the Browns was at least 40 spots higher (this is BEFORE compensatory picks are revealed) than the pick the Ravens received for Flacco. 

 

If you think what Beane pulled off was a bad move, in light of those numbers, you either:

 

1) Are a Pat***** troll

2) Failed Kindergarten math

3) Take Hatorade, introveniously 

 

Link:

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/2/13/18223460/denver-broncos-trade-for-joe-flacco-altering-buffalo-bills-2019-nfl-draft-trade-possibilities

 

Maybe we aren't the worst... maybe we sometimes make good moves. Maybe it's time to start to Billeve!

You just described half the posters here. Thankfully, there’s a good half.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

ROC, whilst failing Kindergarden math, I contemplated the salary cap implications of both moves.

That does need to be taken into account.  

 

The Browns were risking 1 year at $16M, not a big risk for a 1 year rental of a QB who finished the 2017 season as a starter (not a great starter, but still)

The Ravens are taking on $18.5M in 2019 salary.  Public details are a bit sketchy, but reportedly there are injury guarantees in there and possibly some remaining guaranteed money?  This is big bucks for a guy who finished the year with his butt on the bench.

The Ravens kind of got the "taking on a bigger cap hit and contract for a guy who showed nothing lately" discount on the trade return.

 

I guess I kind of don't get your overall viewpoint on evaluating what was or was not a good move - I don't think that makes me either a Pat*** troll or an IV Hatorade junky to say that I think it seems like wearing blinders to look at a move only in the context of the draft pick the trading team received. 

 

I don't have a problem with the TT trade, but I do most certainly have a problem with the whole aggregate of Buffalo Bills QB moves and roster choices that left us with a training camp of barely-played McCarron, Peterman-threw-5-Picks, and Raw Rookie Allen then had us starting the season with Peterman-threw-5-Picks as the starting QB and no choice but to play Raw Rookie Allen by the second half of the season opener.

 

That was stupid, and as even Beane himself has publically acknowledged, a mistake. 

So it seems a bit weird to hang your hat on regarding one of the moves that left us in that situation as "witchery" and a win for Beane.

 

Just my opinion.

Hard disagree.  Broncos traded a 4th round pick for a QB better than Taylor, with a better history and who may have very well won a playoff game if his HC didn't stick with the QB with -2 passing yards through 3Q's.

 

The Broncos, AFAIK, can walk away painlessly barring injury after this year.  But even better, they may not have to.  Cool Joe drops a 10 win year in his new digs, guess who is already under contract?   Guess who may take a contract alteration to get some cap space AND money up front?

 

The Taylor trade was probably the Browns worst move last offseason.  A 3rd round pick for a guy who started 3 games, when you took a QB #1.  And who you are now losing for nothing.  Now that's a calculated loss, but it's still a loss.

[Logic]

If we're talking Beane witchery, can we add in the fact that he just signed a player for 1.2 million that JUST LAST YEAR signed for 9 million per year? I realize said player fought through injuries last year, hence the reduced pay level on his new team, but still. Beane got a GREAT deal with Spencer Long who, if healthy, represents a starting level guard or center in this league and is a definite improvement over what the Bills had in 2018.

[Da webster guy]

It was a good trade, although we burned that pick to move up and grab Tremaine instead of staying put and 

uh...maybe drafting LB Rashaan Evans and then using the Cleveland pick on an Olineman or something.

 

Not saying it was a bad move, only that it sort of reveals that drafting for need is a part of Beane's history.

[RiotAct]

I don’t think ANYONE hates the Tyrod trade.   At least, they better not.

[Alphadawg7]

Beane has been excellent as our GM, I for the life of me can not figure out why people cant see it.  Cracks me up at all the people who were pissing and moaning about the offense last year as if THAT offense WAS the rebuild lol.  There is a massive difference in FIELDING a team and BUILDING a team.  Last year we had to field an offense still while we dealt with the one season cap situation we HAD to go through in order to clean up the cap.  Yet people still slam him without factoring the facts and logic of the situation.  Makes me laugh ever harder when people blame things like Robert Woods not being here and KC/Mahomes trade on Beane when he was an employee of the Carolina Panthers when those things happened too.

1. Cleaned out our cap situation a year faster than he said it would take when hired.  
2. Managed to get a 2nd round pick and a player who helped us break the 17 year playoff drought for oft injured and over paid Sammy Watkins (and I really like Sammy, but facts are facts).  
3. Got Browns to give us a premium pick, first pick in 3rd round, in a deep draft for a QB no one here thought would fetch more than a 6th.
4. Wasnt afraid to make a midseason trade to try and get some WR help in KB because we were in an unexpected playoff run.  And it helped us make the playoffs as we dont win the SnowBowl game without him.  
5. Managed to trade up THREE times in the first round last year to get TWO players and DID NOT give up ANY future FIRST round picks, or any future picks at all.  I dont know thats ever been done before.
6. Found the QB of our offense of the future and the QB of our defense of the future with those trades.  
7. Had a great first draft finding great value behind those picks at other positions.
8. Found a diamond in the rough in Foster after the draft and wasnt afraid to cut dead weight at WR midseason to make room for him to get on the field.  
9. Managed to acquire even more draft assets (10 total) this year despite all the trading around last year.  
10. Still managed to field the #2 defense in the NFL DESPITE the big offensive challenges first half of the season making life really hard on the D.

And there is more than this...but what's the point.  People are still going to B***h that KB didn't ultimately workout despite that he did help us break a 17 year streak.  People are still going to whine about the offense not being good last year or the OL not being good despite we had a rookie QB who missed time, we had 2 OL with Pro Bowl resumes retire after trading our under performing LT to get into position to get Allen, etc etc.  

 

Beane is doing a great job SO FAR...he now has to show his building skills.  He is a master of building a foundation and cleaning up a bad situation getting more value than people expect for assets we are sending out.  This is the year now that the real rebuild starts around that rock solid foundation they have established.  He will ultimately be judged on the success of that, but so far, there is a LOT to love about him in my book.

 

Oh...and we broke our 17 year drought under his watch along with McD, who is another young star coach in this league who has been coaching his a** off here getting the most out of this roster.