The Senator Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Maynard said: Interesting that Casserly now has Hockenson going at number 8 to Detroit. Calls him a reach, but the buzz is growing. Casserly Mock I’m sure the draft will be filled with surprises, both pleasant and not so pleasant! It will be interesting to see who rises and who falls when the combine starts in 6 days. .
GreggTX Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) The more I see and read about this kid, the more I like him. A solid receiver that blocks well. The next Russ Francis, maybe? I hope Beane likes him too. I think he could be a real asset on WR screens too with his short area quickness and blocking ability. He'd be a real mismatch for DB's as a lead blocker on screens and could also be the receiver. Daboll could really get creative with him as well , as the OP suggests, as a flex or H Back. Heck, he could probably be a FB too.. Edited February 20, 2019 by GreggTX
GreggTX Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) On 2/17/2019 at 2:23 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I think we could pursue some of the following guys in FA along the OL: Donovan Smith, Trent Brown, Mitch Morse, Rodger Saffold, Matt Paradis, Daryl Williams. We already signed Long, who I think could compete to start, but also could be a good depth player. He was much better in Washington surrounded by more talent. Last year with the Jets, he had an injury on his snapping hand which greatly impacted his performance. But right now, I do think he could have a bounce back year now that hes healthy and if we have some better players around him than Jets had. But if can also sign someone like Morse/Paradis to start at C so Long can backup C and maybe even start at G, then it could be a very good signing for us. Then go add one of those tackles and we will have the makings of a much better line already. Be great if they also found a way to add Saffold too. That being said, I have no issues taking an OL in the draft either and think Bills may be eyeing someone like Risner who also seems to want to come to Buffalo. I do however think OL will be one area Beane is most active in with FA so he can get some veteran help to try and immediately stabilize the line for Josh. Absolutely! If we sign 4 or 5 quality or solid FA's like Saffold, Washington, Paradis, Tyrell Williams and G McCoy/Malik Jackson, just as an example, we could hopefully get Hockenson and a good WR in the top 2 rounds, then just go BPA. We can use our extra picks to move up a spot or 2 if need be. We need a couple guys in this draft that can contribute right away. Not sure I want D Smith, though. Might as well just keep Mills if that's all we can find at OT in FA. Edited February 20, 2019 by GreggTX
WideNine Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) On 2/14/2019 at 11:12 PM, Buffalo Junction said: I see him as more of a Witten type, and not a Gronk. I think he'll be a reliable, top end, do it all TE. I watched 5-6 Iowa games this year, and while he stood out I didn't come away with the impression that he was an overwhelmingly dominant force. That said, I think he's the best blocking TE in the draft that can reliably catch the ball... Furthermore, I think he might actually have the best hands in the draft. I would absolutely take Gronk in the top 10.... You have to remember though.... When Gronk came out he had back issues, ran a 4.65, and had occasional games where his concentration was off. Without the back problems he would have gone around 15-20. That's what I'm saying about Hoch.... Amazing prospect, but he hasn't done anything to blow everyone away. I catch the Iowa games too, and I like your Witten analogy. I would not say that being comparable to Gronk is beyond his reach though as I do not think Hockenson has filled out or hit his ceiling yet...and if he stays healthy I have no idea where that may be. His combine measurables will be interesting. Either way if he stays healthy in the right system the kid could be a very dependable TE like Witten. Only time will tell and I like a few TE prospects in this draft. Edited February 21, 2019 by WideNine 1
GreggTX Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 10:40 AM, thebandit27 said: When was the last time a first round TE was a serious contributor? I honestly can't remember What about Eiffert?
CommonCents Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, GreggTX said: What about Eiffert? Eifert has 1700 yards in six years. 283 yards per season. He has missed so many games. I don’t think anyone would call that pick a success. Ebron was another first rounder, he had a good year this season with Andy Luck but anyone that watched the games sees the drops and the amount of time he spends limping off the field. If you want a blocker draft OL, if you want a pass catcher draft a WR. TEs take too many hits and are one of the most unpredictable positions in the draft. Take a flyer on one and hope for the best, avoid drafting one early. 2
WideNine Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 50 minutes ago, CommonCents said: Eifert has 1700 yards in six years. 283 yards per season. He has missed so many games. I don’t think anyone would call that pick a success. Ebron was another first rounder, he had a good year this season with Andy Luck but anyone that watched the games sees the drops and the amount of time he spends limping off the field. If you want a blocker draft OL, if you want a pass catcher draft a WR. TEs take too many hits and are one of the most unpredictable positions in the draft. Take a flyer on one and hope for the best, avoid drafting one early. Don't know if it is a this or that kind of thing. I think the better offenses in the league have competent TEs. We don't. We have Croom who fits more the KB big WR role than traditional TE. Picking a TE in the draft is no more a crapshoot IMO than any other drafted position if you count how many receivers that don't pan out. The Bills have grabbed some later round prospects and UFAs TEs that have been meh. The top cupboard is usually pretty bare of great TE talent because those with the elite size and athleticism often end up as basketball recruits. The skills translate well. TEs do take a beating, and may not put up the huge yards on average, but the yards gained are usually those contested 4-7 yard completions needed to move the chains and keep drives alive, or dump offs to keep your QB from taking hits. I am not sure how gimpy Ebron was this past year, either way he was very productive in the red zone and earned his pro-bowl invite. If an elite talent is there at TE I take that prospect over an average receiver prospect. According to most scouting reports, this year there are a few of these more elite TE prospects. It is a deep position this year...that is not usually the case. On the other hand, the way the receiving prospects are bunched up (talent-wise) this year, I am ok with taking one later in the draft...he just has to have sure hands. Can't wait for the draft to see how things pan out.
njbuff Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 If he is the player McBeane loves at 9, who are we to argue? We do want the Bills to select the best player at 9, don't we?................... regardless of position. And TE is a HUGE position of need
Buffalo Junction Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 9:58 AM, WideNine said: I catch the Iowa games too, and I like your Wittin analogy. I would not say that being comparable to Gronk is beyond his reach though as I do not think Hockenson has filled out or hit his ceiling yet...and if he stays healthy I have no idea where that may be. His combine measurables will be interesting. Either way if he stays healthy in the right system the kid could be a very dependable TE like Wittin. Only time will tell and I like a few TE prospects in this draft. Grönk is such a freak that I find it hard to compare anyone to him. The guy just has a different mold like LT. I don’t think it’s fair to even try and compare someone to that. However, there are still plenty of guys below that level of freakishness that are in the HoF. The difficult part is predicting... especially with TEs. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) On 2/17/2019 at 8:40 AM, thebandit27 said: When was the last time a first round TE was a serious contributor? I honestly can't remember Here are a few recents: Eifert - Talent is there, cant blame the bad luck of injuries to diminish his actual value and talent when healthy. Picking a TE in the first is about talent, so we cant degrade the value of a first round TE because this specific one had a personal issue with injuries. Thats not "TE Specific" issue. Ebron - Underused in Detroit, but was still a very good TE for them and now Colts are showing what it means to use his talents. Cant diminish his talent and value because the Lions are a poorly run team who never can figure out how to use their assets correctly on offense. OJ Howard - This guy is poised to be a top 5 TE or better for the next 10 years. Greg Olsen - Another guy who was underused on bad teams (Bears), but was still good for them before going to Carolina where he was properly used and one of the best TE's in football. Honorable mention: Gronk was a first round projected TE who slipped due to other factors. Still a first round talent, and look at how important he has been. TE is not as featured of a position in College, so lots of talented TE's usually end their career with modest numbers which often leads to selections outside the first round. But when there are guys that are worth of first round, it doesn't devalue them just because others have come from other rounds. If a guy can really help your football team, you go get him. I would rather have a premier TE prospect, then try and find a hidden gem later. Look at how valuable Kelce was to Mahomes, or Olsen to Cam. Can really help a young QB and be a lethal weapon, especially since they are a hard cover if they are a dangerous receiver given the often mismatch in coverage. Edited February 21, 2019 by Alphadawg7 1 1
Pete Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 If we stay at 9, Hockenson is the pick IMO. And he will have a bigger impact than any other offensive position selection IMO. WR and OL are deep. We have 9 more picks. And we could also use LB depth and a pass rusher and if we trade down to 15(which I am a-ok with) I highly doubt Hockenson is available. But trading back and drafting Hockenson is my ideal situation for us
Pete Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 Sign Jesse James and draft Hockenson. We could run two tight end sets. Defenses would have to worry about covering underneath, which opens up Foster. We would be able to run the ball better, with better blocking. And all this would be huge for Josh 1 1
zevo Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 I’m on board...he is good enough at blocking as well as a pass catching threat to warrant the high pick.....having that type of utility in a TE is tough to find.
GimmeSomeProcess Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) I’d love the pick, sure a guy like Ebron took a while to develop but a couple of differences. Ebron drops footballs and TJ is superior blocker. I’m all for it. Seeing Daboll watched Gronk destroy defenses and McBeane saw Olson as the best passing game weapon, I can see it. Howard had 26 catches for 463 yards and 6 tds. If TJ can do that in year one, he would help Josh nicely. Edited February 27, 2019 by GimmeSomeProcess
JaCrispy Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 9:30 PM, njbuff said: If he is the player McBeane loves at 9, who are we to argue? We do want the Bills to select the best player at 9, don't we?................... regardless of position. And TE is a HUGE position of need I think I might be leaning towards Risner before Hockenson...but it is still early
aristocrat Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 i'd love this to be a trade back and take him at 15 scenario. imagine a scenario like the 2013 draft where we took manuel, woods and kiko but instead we got hockenson and two other guys that can play right away especially on the offense side of the ball.
racketmaster Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) A Kelce/Kittle/Ertz type can make a major impact on a team's offense. Hockenson may have been a 2nd or 3rd round pick a few years ago. Kittle exploding this past year with his monster season is going to rocket Hockenson up the draft boards. You see this all the time as the NFL is a copy cat league and is all about comparable players. Kittle was an underused player at Iowa and is close with Hockenson. They have trained together and come from a school that is known for producing quality tight ends. IF Hockenson puts up the measurable at the combine that indicate he is an elite athlete (in the mold of Kittle) then he will likely go top 10. He is a tremendous blocker and his character and work ethic have never been questioned. Unlike Kittle, Hockenson has put up numbers at Iowa and if he puts up excellent combine numbers then he will be a top 10 pick because he will have the numbers/stats, athletic ability, character, size, dual ability, college pedigree and a recent comparable that has exploded in the NFL coming out of the same college. Edited February 27, 2019 by racketmaster
thenorthremembers Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 Just watched three games on Hockenson and to be honest I am a little surprised by all the Gronk and Kelce comparisons going on. He is definitely willing to do it all. But aside from having really good hands he doesnt stand out as an elite top ten talent. He is a good blocker, but he is also streaky at times, especially in the Penn State and Mississippi State games I watched (that Mississippi State defense was fast and nasty). He has some size but wouldnt say he plays big, in fact he comes across as a smaller H-Back despite being 6'5. I will be curious about the speed but he doesnt look like a 4.4 or 4.5 guy on film. I also didnt see crisp route running. I saw a guy who would sneak off an initial block and get wide open rather than getting open using route running skills. Three games doesnt tell the entire story, but I would be against the Bills taking him in the top ten. 1
Mat68 Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 If they sign James or a TE draft a TE in rd 2. Fant or Irv Smith have more upside and are more explosive. Modern flex Te.
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