gonzo1105 Posted February 15, 2019 Author Posted February 15, 2019 51 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said: He may very well be one of the best TE's in the NFL by his third year. Those things are difficult to predict. However, he's still a TE.... which means that the positional draft value isn't there for a top 10 pick unless he puts up freak (Vernon Davis 4.38) numbers at the combine in the 40 or vertical jump. Teams would rather try and find a Gronk or George Kittle between the 2nd and 5th than spend a top 10 on a TE. It's a strange year though. Without any other sure thing playmakers or QBs in the draft his value might be bumped up and a team may pull the trigger early. Fact remains, I don't see anything about him that says he'll be a transcendent player though. Excellent, yes.... But the type of guy that completely redefines the position on his way to the Hall of Fame? No. I don't see that. Is he worth the #9 pick? Perhaps, but it's dependent upon the value of the defensive players left on the board. See I would agree with you in most years about Hockenson and agree in a much stronger draft maybe he goes 20-30. I keep hearing that he isn't a transcendent type and that may be true it might not be. I say this, this draft at the top stinks name me guys that you KNOW FOR SURE are going to be a star. Nick Bosa.....that might be just about it in this draft. There is no sure fire QB. There is no top 10 RB. No Top 20 WR. There now maybe 5 Edge or DT's that are worthy of the 9th overall pick(Williams, Bosa, Allen, Gary, Oliver), 1 LB(White) and No DB's worthy of the 9th pick. Greedy Williams is now being talked about as a mid to late first round pick. Thats why I brought him up, I think he's an interesting case. I think if he runs 4.55 or 4.6 he should be in consideration. If he runs 4.7-4.8 then your probably right he's a late 1 or two. His testing results will tell a lot about him. I dont expect him to run 4.4 to justify picking him tho.
Buffalo Junction Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, billspro said: For me positional value is QB, OL, DE, CB, TE, LB. If you have stars in those spots you are a championship contender. I personally would take Gronk or Kittle in the top 10. I know you can find good TEs later in the draft but I think Hockenson can be a Gonzalez type of TE. He is rare in my opinion. I see him as more of a Witten type, and not a Gronk. I think he'll be a reliable, top end, do it all TE. I watched 5-6 Iowa games this year, and while he stood out I didn't come away with the impression that he was an overwhelmingly dominant force. That said, I think he's the best blocking TE in the draft that can reliably catch the ball... Furthermore, I think he might actually have the best hands in the draft. I would absolutely take Gronk in the top 10.... You have to remember though.... When Gronk came out he had back issues, ran a 4.65, and had occasional games where his concentration was off. Without the back problems he would have gone around 15-20. That's what I'm saying about Hoch.... Amazing prospect, but he hasn't done anything to blow everyone away. 1
Buffalo Junction Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, WideNine said: You may be right. I like Hockenson a lot, but I think any other year he would probably be a 2nd round pick. Because no one has really separated themselves from the pack as THE top-end receiver in this class folks are looking more at the deeper TE class and it's top-end prospects. Kittle was taken in the 5th I believe, but his success now has more teams looking at that Iowa program, how they recruit and coach up their TEs. These other factors I do think have caused his draft stock to rise... I don't think he will last through the first round, and neither will Irv Smith. Not sure about Fant, but don't know if there was ever a year where 3 TE's went in the first...would have to do some digging. I personally do not see the Bills brass taking him at 9, but there are no guarantees even at the top of the draft either. I do think he should be just as much an option as the top receivers folks are batting around if they trade down in the 1st. I think he will be the first TE off the board, and might be the first receiving option to get drafted. Him coming out definitely pushes Fant down. I do think that Beane may be more comfortable with Smith because of the info that Daboll may have provided. I actually wouldn't rule out a trade with say GB - our 1st and 2nd for both their 1sts and whatever makes up the difference... In that case I could see us taking Smith with that second 1st rounder. 2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said: See I would agree with you in most years about Hockenson and agree in a much stronger draft maybe he goes 20-30. I keep hearing that he isn't a transcendent type and that may be true it might not be. I say this, this draft at the top stinks name me guys that you KNOW FOR SURE are going to be a star. Nick Bosa.....that might be just about it in this draft. There is no sure fire QB. There is no top 10 RB. No Top 20 WR. There now maybe 5 Edge or DT's that are worthy of the 9th overall pick(Williams, Bosa, Allen, Gary, Oliver), 1 LB(White) and No DB's worthy of the 9th pick. Greedy Williams is now being talked about as a mid to late first round pick. Thats why I brought him up, I think he's an interesting case. I think if he runs 4.55 or 4.6 he should be in consideration. If he runs 4.7-4.8 then your probably right he's a late 1 or two. His testing results will tell a lot about him. I dont expect him to run 4.4 to justify picking him tho. This WR class reminds me of 2008 - the James Hardy draft. All the talent was late 1st - early 3rd. There were some serious gems (Nelson and Jackson), but a lot of the talent washed out. Butler actually reminds me of Hardy to a fair degree. I absolutely agree that the weakness in top offensive talent will drive up the value for a few players. Namely Hockenson and Metcalf. Without that neck injury I think Metcalf would have been the defacto #1 WR in the class and a top 10 pick. I do think that Montez Sweat may climb after the combine. A team may take a flier on Simmons or an OT as well. It's going to be an interesting draft. If Hockenson runs a 4.55-4.6 I wouldn't be surprised to see him be the first offensive skill position player taken. Definitely a strange year.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 Hes one of the ones i want, wish we had 6 picks in the first.
ehfeuh57 Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 doesnt always catch correctly, but i'll take him
formerlyofCtown Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 11:59 PM, Bakin said: I think this is the point most are missing with TJ. Not only is he a weapon for Josh but he’s a blocking machine for his RB’s, for his adjacent tackle, and of course for his QB. Its like getting an OT and a WR for the price of one. 9 may be a bit early. Historically TE’s never go this high. But I think he’s my favorite first rounder that I know we can get at 9 If course we could get him at 9, because its a reach. He isnt a top 10 prospect at this point. Maybe we could trade down and then trade back into the first and grab him. It would likely be expensive to trade from the second up to 20 though.
Maynard Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/14/2019 at 11:42 AM, Alphadawg7 said: This is what I would do: First: Shore up OL in Free agency, sign 3 key guys. Second: Sign Humphries, WR in FA too to give us a Kupp/Edelman type slot weapon for Allen. Also sign Cordalle Patterson as WR and gadget player depth, but mostly to substantially upgrade our return game. Third: Trade down with Washington to #15 (I know its hard to mock trade downs, but I think there is a lot of potential for this to be a reality) and pick up their 2nd. Draft: #15 - Hockenson, TE. #40 - (Top WR available) - Butler, WR #46 (from Was) - Oshane Ximines, EDGE From there on, draft a RB like Love or Henderson in the 3rd or 4th round too. Boom. What we accomplish is: Allen gets an established and reliable slot weapon in the mold of Kupp/Edelman Allen gets a bonafide Kelce like weapon in Hockenson We add a high level WR prospect along side either Foster or maybe even Duke (I think he has a legit shot to compete for a starting spot here where Foster may be more the big play guy). Still have Zay and Patterson rounding out the WR room at 5 and 6 (yes, if we have Humphries, Butler, Foster, and Duke, I think Zay falls to 5th on depth chart as a rotational player in that group) We get an under the radar stud EDGE rushing prospect (small school) who is a big time leader on the field too We add some youthful explosion that can catch and run in our RB room. And our OL was shored up through established vets to make an immediate improvement to Allens protection and our Run Game. And most importantly...a deep playoff run in 2019! FOOTNOTE: We can STILL do this without a trade down with Washington. To pick up that extra 2nd round pick, we could trade our 3rd and one of our 4ths to get back into the 2nd round to get someone like Ximines still (or obviously a player they covet). I do not think Beane intends to make 10 draft choices and I certainly think a trade up at some point is even more likely if we do make a trade down and end up with 11 or 12 draft choices. #Alpha4GM #GoBills Been thinking about the same! I’m onboard with this. I think the biggest issue will be addressing the OL in FA, but we’ll see. 1
CaptnCoke11 Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 Be nice to trade down a few spots pick up an extra 2nd and get Hockenson. Then maybe trade back into late round 1 for a WR
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 When was the last time a first round TE was a serious contributor? I honestly can't remember 1
CEN-CAL17 Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 7:02 PM, White Linen said: There's been 9 TE's drafted in the first round the last 10 years and only 1, IMO, has even been remotely worth it (Evan Engram). I would never draft a TE in the first round and most definitely not at 9 or 12-15. This kid is different.... Fans won’t get the instant satisfaction from the TE position from a rookie. But watch, this kid will be a perineal pro bowler and be an All Pro. I could be wrong but im pretty sure in 3-4 years I’ll be saying “told you so”.... but when it’s all said and done I hope who ever we pick is a stand out as well and I could care less. But I do want TJ. Fans here need to understand he may get drafted at #7 to Jacksonville or #8 Detroit. He has the film, he has the awards, he has the potential, he has the size weight and speed. He’s gonna run a 4.5 40 yard dash. He’s an excellent route runner, best blocking TE to come out in years etc.... this kid was a 3 sport athlete in high school and excelled in all 3. Holds state records in football. He’s different 1
White Linen Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said: This kid is different.... Fans won’t get the instant satisfaction from the TE position from a rookie. But watch, this kid will be a perineal pro bowler and be an All Pro. I could be wrong but im pretty sure in 3-4 years I’ll be saying “told you so”.... but when it’s all said and done I hope who ever we pick is a stand out as well and I could care less. But I do want TJ. Fans here need to understand he may get drafted at #7 to Jacksonville or #8 Detroit. He has the film, he has the awards, he has the potential, he has the size weight and speed. He’s gonna run a 4.5 40 yard dash. He’s an excellent route runner, best blocking TE to come out in years etc.... this kid was a 3 sport athlete in high school and excelled in all 3. Holds state records in football. He’s different It's fun to have a horse in the race. I'm getting closer but haven't decided yet.
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 9:28 PM, BuffAlone said: When was the last TE drafted 10 -15? He's a beast, but its like RB....D-line , edge, QB.maybe O-line. T hats first round talent these days. That said...give me him at 25, and a 2nd rounder, I'm game. Please don't let NE or KC draft him. Actually, BOTH those Iowa TE's are worthy of a 1st rd pick in my opinion THIS!! With the strong possibility that Gronk either retires or is too injured to be an impact, this clearly would be a BB move. I say take him if we move down. Get some extra picks, but having him would be huge IMO. We haven't have a big TE target since the Superbowl years (Pete M and McKellar).
NewEra Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/14/2019 at 11:42 AM, Alphadawg7 said: This is what I would do: First: Shore up OL in Free agency, sign 3 key guys. Second: Sign Humphries, WR in FA too to give us a Kupp/Edelman type slot weapon for Allen. Also sign Cordalle Patterson as WR and gadget player depth, but mostly to substantially upgrade our return game. Third: Trade down with Washington to #15 (I know its hard to mock trade downs, but I think there is a lot of potential for this to be a reality) and pick up their 2nd. Draft: #15 - Hockenson, TE. #40 - (Top WR available) - Butler, WR #46 (from Was) - Oshane Ximines, EDGE From there on, draft a RB like Love or Henderson in the 3rd or 4th round too. Boom. What we accomplish is: Allen gets an established and reliable slot weapon in the mold of Kupp/Edelman Allen gets a bonafide Kelce like weapon in Hockenson We add a high level WR prospect along side either Foster or maybe even Duke (I think he has a legit shot to compete for a starting spot here where Foster may be more the big play guy). Still have Zay and Patterson rounding out the WR room at 5 and 6 (yes, if we have Humphries, Butler, Foster, and Duke, I think Zay falls to 5th on depth chart as a rotational player in that group) We get an under the radar stud EDGE rushing prospect (small school) who is a big time leader on the field too We add some youthful explosion that can catch and run in our RB room. And our OL was shored up through established vets to make an immediate improvement to Allens protection and our Run Game. And most importantly...a deep playoff run in 2019! FOOTNOTE: We can STILL do this without a trade down with Washington. To pick up that extra 2nd round pick, we could trade our 3rd and one of our 4ths to get back into the 2nd round to get someone like Ximines still (or obviously a player they covet). I do not think Beane intends to make 10 draft choices and I certainly think a trade up at some point is even more likely if we do make a trade down and end up with 11 or 12 draft choices. #Alpha4GM #GoBills I’d be extremely happy with this. I just don’t know if we’re going to be able to sign 3 quality starters along the OL. Long is nice depth, but I don’t think he’s a good starting OLman. Could happen but I just can’t see us NOT drafting an OLman in the first 3 rounds. The 1
PetermansRedemption Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 TJ Hockenson is quickly becoming my primary draft crush. I prefer a trade down and getting him that way. But I wouldn’t even mind a slight reach and grabbing him at 9.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, NewEra said: I’d be extremely happy with this. I just don’t know if we’re going to be able to sign 3 quality starters along the OL. Long is nice depth, but I don’t think he’s a good starting OLman. Could happen but I just can’t see us NOT drafting an OLman in the first 3 rounds. The I think we could pursue some of the following guys in FA along the OL: Donovan Smith, Trent Brown, Mitch Morse, Rodger Saffold, Matt Paradis, Daryl Williams. We already signed Long, who I think could compete to start, but also could be a good depth player. He was much better in Washington surrounded by more talent. Last year with the Jets, he had an injury on his snapping hand which greatly impacted his performance. But right now, I do think he could have a bounce back year now that hes healthy and if we have some better players around him than Jets had. But if can also sign someone like Morse/Paradis to start at C so Long can backup C and maybe even start at G, then it could be a very good signing for us. Then go add one of those tackles and we will have the makings of a much better line already. Be great if they also found a way to add Saffold too. That being said, I have no issues taking an OL in the draft either and think Bills may be eyeing someone like Risner who also seems to want to come to Buffalo. I do however think OL will be one area Beane is most active in with FA so he can get some veteran help to try and immediately stabilize the line for Josh. 2
machine gun kelly Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 I may be in the minority, but I’d rather stay put, take the best T in the draft or 2nd best, and bundle two picks to get this guy. If we pick up two stud interior O Lineman on top of Long, then it’s not volume of picks but as many starters plus depth you can get. I’m a broken record on two WR as well in FA, and outside of that I’m a happy man for this off season and we should have a better team. I know it takes time for an O Line to gel so I don’t expect miracles in the first four weeks, but maybe get lucky and get some of the weaker opponents at that time. After a month in the regular season and everything prior, we could be looking at a very talented offense to compliment this defense. We’re only to this point losing Kyle on defense, but that’s why we picked up Phillips. Just my two cents.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: I may be in the minority, but I’d rather stay put, take the best T in the draft or 2nd best, and bundle two picks to get this guy. If we pick up two stud interior O Lineman on top of Long, then it’s not volume of picks but as many starters plus depth you can get. I’m a broken record on two WR as well in FA, and outside of that I’m a happy man for this off season and we should have a better team. I know it takes time for an O Line to gel so I don’t expect miracles in the first four weeks, but maybe get lucky and get some of the weaker opponents at that time. After a month in the regular season and everything prior, we could be looking at a very talented offense to compliment this defense. We’re only to this point losing Kyle on defense, but that’s why we picked up Phillips. Just my two cents. ....see your two cents and raise you to a well done assessment......trade down into the teens and go OL shopping while grabbing an extra 2nd....to coin a Cowher quote AGAIN, " the OL is THE most important UNIT on the football field....if they fail as a unit, everything else breaks down offensively".....has to be TE & WR values later and not a helluva lot of difference between McBeane's "!" and "!A" targets......STRICTLY opinion as I don't get to see college ball...so I'll leave the actual "1" vs "1A" fall offs to those who see the collegians..... 2
transplantbillsfan Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 We only have one TE in Croom on our roster right now. I gotta believe we'll trade back from 9 and use one of (hopefully) 2 1st round picks to draft Hockenson or Fant.
machine gun kelly Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....see your two cents and raise you to a well done assessment......trade down into the teens and go OL shopping while grabbing an extra 2nd....to coin a Cowher quote AGAIN, " the OL is THE most important UNIT on the football field....if they fail as a unit, everything else breaks down offensively".....has to be TE & WR values later and not a helluva lot of difference between McBeane's "!" and "!A" targets......STRICTLY opinion as I don't get to see college ball...so I'll leave the actual "1" vs "1A" fall offs to those who see the collegians..... Thanks for making me laugh on a slow Sunday. I guess I shouldn’t play poker with you.
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