gonzo1105 Posted February 14, 2019 Author Posted February 14, 2019 I’m actually surprised how split this thread is on him. I was expecting much more negativity tbh when I started this thread.
CuddyDark Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 This is the position they truly need. They need a TE more then a WR, IMO. 2
blacklabel Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 The kid is a pretty complete TE right out of the gate. He's versatile and doesn't mind doing the dirty work for the run game. He's a chess piece you can move around and I'm sure Daboll would love to have a player like him. That said, I don't know if you take him inside the top 10 picks. I would like to see them grab one of these TEs this year, though. Bills have never really drafted high on a TE which says most regimes haven't valued the position that much. However, they have Daboll now who worked with Gronk and McBeane saw how valuable a guy like Greg Olsen was down in Carolina. So, yeah, hopefully they snag one of these guys because they need to be well equipped at all the offensive skill positions if they want Allen to take the next step.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 14 hours ago, BuffAlone said: When was the last TE drafted 10 -15? He's a beast, but its like RB....D-line , edge, QB.maybe O-line. T hats first round talent these days. That said...give me him at 25, and a 2nd rounder, I'm game. Please don't let NE or KC draft him. Actually, BOTH those Iowa TE's are worthy of a 1st rd pick in my opinion think Ebron was #9....
PIZ Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 I get trying to get an extra pick in a trade down, and then take the guy you would have taken at #9, but if trading down prevents you from getting him, is the extra pick worth it? If they have him targeted at #9, just take him at #9. I like Jawaan Taylor OT better though, but TJ Hockenson has far fewer red flags than any of the receivers, and he would provide a nice boost to the offense. Didn't Seattle try to get cute in 2002 when they wanted Daniel Graham TE? They trade down and took Jeremy Stephens TE at #28, because New England took Graham at #21.
mjt328 Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 Last year's offense didn't use the Tight Ends very much in the passing game. Maybe that would change under Brian Daboll if we gave him a better TE to use. I don't know. If we are going to utilize his skills, then I'm OK with taking a top TE prospect in the late first round. But TE is just not a position that should go in the Top 10, unless he's a can't-miss "next Tony Gonzalez" player who is fantastic at both blocking and receiving.
947 Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: think Ebron was #9.... Yep, Ebron was the last "Complete TE" draft prospect. He went #9 to the Lions, and in 4 years in Detroit became merely a marginal starter, despite being in a passing offense. He did literally nothing to justify being drafted in the first round, let alone top-10, and was run out of town. It seems like most 1st round TEs disappoint. I'd feel better drafting one in the 2nd or 3rd round. 1
billspro Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 12 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said: He’s not transcendent enough at that position to warrant a top 10 pick. He’s not Gonzalez or Vernon Davis. I could see him at 15 though. I doubt he could drop past NE. Heck, he might not get past GB if all the good edge guys are gone by then. At 9 though... Nah. There’s probably better value at edge, corner, OT, or DT unless the kids pulls a 4.4 40. Are you sure? I think he will be the best TE in the NFL by year 3.
ndirish1978 Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, PIZ said: I get trying to get an extra pick in a trade down, and then take the guy you would have taken at #9, but if trading down prevents you from getting him, is the extra pick worth it? If they have him targeted at #9, just take him at #9. I like Jawaan Taylor OT better though, but TJ Hockenson has far fewer red flags than any of the receivers, and he would provide a nice boost to the offense. Didn't Seattle try to get cute in 2002 when they wanted Daniel Graham TE? They trade down and took Jeremy Stephens TE at #28, because New England took Graham at #21. Taylor is a RT though. Seems like we could solve the "must get a tackle early" by signing Daryl Williams. We sign Williams and Morse/Paradis and we're open to making an investment in the office like Hockenson or a WR at 9.
billspro Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, 947 said: Yep, Ebron was the last "Complete TE" draft prospect. He went #9 to the Lions, and in 4 years in Detroit became merely a marginal starter, despite being in a passing offense. He did literally nothing to justify being drafted in the first round, let alone top-10, and was run out of town. It seems like most 1st round TEs disappoint. I'd feel better drafting one in the 2nd or 3rd round. Ebron is no where near the prospect Hockenson is. He did look like a top ten TE in Indy this year. 1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said: Taylor is a RT though. Seems like we could solve the "must get a tackle early" by signing Daryl Williams. We sign Williams and Morse/Paradis and we're open to making an investment in the office like Hockenson or a WR at 9. Signing two OL would allow us to take the best pass catcher in the draft. Hockenson is that guy, I also love that he played for Iowa. He would solidify that position for a decade. 3 hours ago, gonzo1105 said: I’m actually surprised how split this thread is on him. I was expecting much more negativity tbh when I started this thread. He is my safest prospect in the draft. I think you are getting a pro bowl TE as his floor. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) This is what I would do: First: Shore up OL in Free agency, sign 3 key guys. Second: Sign Humphries, WR in FA too to give us a Kupp/Edelman type slot weapon for Allen. Also sign Cordalle Patterson as WR and gadget player depth, but mostly to substantially upgrade our return game. Third: Trade down with Washington to #15 (I know its hard to mock trade downs, but I think there is a lot of potential for this to be a reality) and pick up their 2nd. Draft: #15 - Hockenson, TE. #40 - (Top WR available) - Butler, WR #46 (from Was) - Oshane Ximines, EDGE From there on, draft a RB like Love or Henderson in the 3rd or 4th round too. Boom. What we accomplish is: Allen gets an established and reliable slot weapon in the mold of Kupp/Edelman Allen gets a bonafide Kelce like weapon in Hockenson We add a high level WR prospect along side either Foster or maybe even Duke (I think he has a legit shot to compete for a starting spot here where Foster may be more the big play guy). Still have Zay and Patterson rounding out the WR room at 5 and 6 (yes, if we have Humphries, Butler, Foster, and Duke, I think Zay falls to 5th on depth chart as a rotational player in that group) We get an under the radar stud EDGE rushing prospect (small school) who is a big time leader on the field too We add some youthful explosion that can catch and run in our RB room. And our OL was shored up through established vets to make an immediate improvement to Allens protection and our Run Game. And most importantly...a deep playoff run in 2019! FOOTNOTE: We can STILL do this without a trade down with Washington. To pick up that extra 2nd round pick, we could trade our 3rd and one of our 4ths to get back into the 2nd round to get someone like Ximines still (or obviously a player they covet). I do not think Beane intends to make 10 draft choices and I certainly think a trade up at some point is even more likely if we do make a trade down and end up with 11 or 12 draft choices. #Alpha4GM #GoBills Edited February 14, 2019 by Alphadawg7 1
John from Riverside Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: This is what I would do: First: Shore up OL in Free agency, sign 3 key guys. Second: Sign Humphries, WR in FA too to give us a Kupp/Edelman type slot weapon for Allen. Also sign Cordalle Patterson as WR and gadget player depth, but mostly to substantially upgrade our return game. Third: Trade down with Washington to #15 (I know its hard to mock trade downs, but I think there is a lot of potential for this to be a reality) and pick up their 2nd. Draft: #15 - Hockenson, TE. #40 - (Top WR available) - Butler, WR #46 (from Was) - Oshane Ximines, EDGE From there on, draft a RB like Love or Henderson in the 3rd or 4th round too. Boom. What we accomplish is: Allen gets an established and reliable slot weapon in the mold of Kupp/Edelman Allen gets a bonafide Kelce like weapon in Hockenson We add a high level WR prospect along side either Foster or maybe even Duke (I think he has a legit shot to compete for a starting spot here where Foster may be more the big play guy). Still have Zay and Patterson rounding out the WR room at 5 and 6 (yes, if we have Humphries, Butler, Foster, and Duke, I think Zay falls to 5th on depth chart as a rotational player in that group) We get an under the radar stud EDGE rushing prospect (small school) who is a big time leader on the field too We add some youthful explosion that can catch and run in our RB room. And our OL was shored up through established vets to make an immediate improvement to Allens protection and our Run Game. And most importantly...a deep playoff run in 2019! FOOTNOTE: We can STILL do this without a trade down with Washington. To pick up that extra 2nd round pick, we could trade our 3rd and one of our 4ths to get back into the 2nd round to get someone like Ximines still (or obviously a player they covet). I do not think Beane intends to make 10 draft choices and I certainly think a trade up at some point is even more likely if we do make a trade down and end up with 11 or 12 draft choices. #Alpha4GM #GoBills I am in the boat where I really hope we can trade down and DO NOT trade 3rd and 4th round picks to move up this year......if anything I would like to accumulate more picks and after we gave up picks after the 1st round last year to get Josh Allen I would really like players from those rounds. 1
WideNine Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 4 hours ago, 947 said: Yep, Ebron was the last "Complete TE" draft prospect. He went #9 to the Lions, and in 4 years in Detroit became merely a marginal starter, despite being in a passing offense. He did literally nothing to justify being drafted in the first round, let alone top-10, and was run out of town. It seems like most 1st round TEs disappoint. I'd feel better drafting one in the 2nd or 3rd round. Run out of town and was arguably the biggest offensive impact weapon for Indy last year. Went to the pro bowl this year and scored the AFC winning TD....so there may be more to the Ebron story. Detroit was clueless on how to use him whereas Indy was not. https://247sports.com/nfl/detroit-lions/Article/Eric-Ebron-Lions-offensive-targets--128709175/Amp/ That being said Ebron reminds me more of Fant with the athleticism, but concentration lapses...he will drop some passes. Hockenson supposedly has the more dependable hands and blocking of the 2 Iowa prospects. The Iowa HC was NE's TE's coach and that is why they have been churning out some pretty good prospects like Kittle in 2017 who broke NFL receiving records last year. Not saying Hock will do the same, but TEs coming out of that program are generally well coached. 2
Alphadawg7 Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I am in the boat where I really hope we can trade down and DO NOT trade 3rd and 4th round picks to move up this year......if anything I would like to accumulate more picks and after we gave up picks after the 1st round last year to get Josh Allen I would really like players from those rounds. I agree, and do think the trade down is legit possibility.. However, I am quite skeptical that Beane will sit tight on 10 picks. 9 picks is still quite the rookie load, as we only would be given up one of our 4ths to do so. Its not like we are losing a 3rd since we are essentially making that pick earlier in the 2nd round to get a premium player. For me, the 2nd round is RICH with some exciting prospects. I just have a feeling one way or the other we will be making 3 selections in the first 2 rounds. Either via trade down, or possible trade up. Beane is aggressive in getting guys he covets and I think there could be some "go get em" guys in the 2nd where Beane will be motivated to have more than one pick that round. For example, lets say we stay at 9 but draft either OL or DL there. Then enter the 2nd round where there may be multiple guys on the board they covet like Fant, Risner, several different WR's, Ximines, etc. I very much could see Beane making a move to get another player there having those 2 fourth round picks in place. AND: If we DO trade down and get that extra 2nd from Washington (or someone else), I can STILL see Beane moving up into the 2nd for a THIRD player. We would have at least 11 picks at that point, and not impossible Beane picks another 4th or 5th up in the trade down too (hes a witch). So using some of the later round ammo to move around the draft is very much in play and could see him moving a 3rd and a 4th to get back into the 2nd for a third player...or maybe packing up some of the additional picks to get an additional pick in the 3rd. Right now, Beane is sitting in a GREAT spot...plenty of cap room to shore up needs in FA and also having 10 picks, plus the #9 slot that may be a coveted trade up spot in a draft deep in areas we could use help on. So this is a great place to load up in the 2nd round in my opinion and he has a lot of opportunity to gain extra picks in 2nd and 3rd rounds. 2
BuffAlone Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: think Ebron was #9.... believe you are correct sir?
Buffalo Junction Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 6 hours ago, billspro said: Are you sure? I think he will be the best TE in the NFL by year 3. He may very well be one of the best TE's in the NFL by his third year. Those things are difficult to predict. However, he's still a TE.... which means that the positional draft value isn't there for a top 10 pick unless he puts up freak (Vernon Davis 4.38) numbers at the combine in the 40 or vertical jump. Teams would rather try and find a Gronk or George Kittle between the 2nd and 5th than spend a top 10 on a TE. It's a strange year though. Without any other sure thing playmakers or QBs in the draft his value might be bumped up and a team may pull the trigger early. Fact remains, I don't see anything about him that says he'll be a transcendent player though. Excellent, yes.... But the type of guy that completely redefines the position on his way to the Hall of Fame? No. I don't see that. Is he worth the #9 pick? Perhaps, but it's dependent upon the value of the defensive players left on the board.
billspro Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said: He may very well be one of the best TE's in the NFL by his third year. Those things are difficult to predict. However, he's still a TE.... which means that the positional draft value isn't there for a top 10 pick unless he puts up freak (Vernon Davis 4.38) numbers at the combine in the 40 or vertical jump. Teams would rather try and find a Gronk or George Kittle between the 2nd and 5th than spend a top 10 on a TE. It's a strange year though. Without any other sure thing playmakers or QBs in the draft his value might be bumped up and a team may pull the trigger early. Fact remains, I don't see anything about him that says he'll be a transcendent player though. Excellent, yes.... But the type of guy that completely redefines the position on his way to the Hall of Fame? No. I don't see that. Is he worth the #9 pick? Perhaps, but it's dependent upon the value of the defensive players left on the board. For me positional value is QB, OL, DE, CB, TE, LB. If you have stars in those spots you are a championship contender. I personally would take Gronk or Kittle in the top 10. I know you can find good TEs later in the draft but I think Hockenson can be a Gonzalez type of TE. He is rare in my opinion.
WideNine Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said: He may very well be one of the best TE's in the NFL by his third year. Those things are difficult to predict. However, he's still a TE.... which means that the positional draft value isn't there for a top 10 pick unless he puts up freak (Vernon Davis 4.38) numbers at the combine in the 40 or vertical jump. Teams would rather try and find a Gronk or George Kittle between the 2nd and 5th than spend a top 10 on a TE. It's a strange year though. Without any other sure thing playmakers or QBs in the draft his value might be bumped up and a team may pull the trigger early. Fact remains, I don't see anything about him that says he'll be a transcendent player though. Excellent, yes.... But the type of guy that completely redefines the position on his way to the Hall of Fame? No. I don't see that. Is he worth the #9 pick? Perhaps, but it's dependent upon the value of the defensive players left on the board. You may be right. I like Hockenson a lot, but I think any other year he would probably be a 2nd round pick. Because no one has really separated themselves from the pack as THE top-end receiver in this class folks are looking more at the deeper TE class and it's top-end prospects. Kittle was taken in the 5th I believe, but his success now has more teams looking at that Iowa program, how they recruit and coach up their TEs. These other factors I do think have caused his draft stock to rise... I don't think he will last through the first round, and neither will Irv Smith. Not sure about Fant, but don't know if there was ever a year where 3 TE's went in the first...would have to do some digging. I personally do not see the Bills brass taking him at 9, but there are no guarantees even at the top of the draft either. I do think he should be just as much an option as the top receivers folks are batting around if they trade down in the 1st.
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