Rob's House Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 There's no reason to be pessimistic. The guy's had success in the league, the coaching staff who knows what they're trying to do obviously likes him, and we have a lot of need at his position group. There could be any number of reasons for a down year - injury, scheme fit, the clap. But the Jets thought enough of him to sign him to a nice contract. Maybe he doesn't work out, but maybe this is the right fit. It's not that far fetch to think this guy could be a solid piece of the oline for years to come. It wouldn't be the first time a player floundered in one place & flourished in another.
Doc Brown Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 I need to see the contract details before giving my opinion. If it's really a one year prove it deal like the contract he signed with the Jets. (say it's three million base with four million guaranteed with no dead cap money if w release him after one year), I'll be happy with that. If he surprises and becomes a solid starter then we won't have to worry about signing him again next two years as you would with a one year prove it deal. That's a solid signing then. If most of this is guaranteed then it's likely an awful move. 3
John from Riverside Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 I realize that I am the over optomistic one......but seriously gang He has HAD SUCCESS in the league......enough to pick up a contract from the jets. 1 1
NewEra Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 I’m usually optimistic and I hope for the best but I have a feeling we’re going to be calling for his head by the end of the year, either because he sucks or because he’s always hurt.
Turk71 Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 53 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Ummm... No Can you count? The first article was written November 24th of the 2017 season after Long was placed on IR after he had been dealing with an injury for a few weeks. He started the first 6 games, though (last one on 10/23) and still played a bit after that. That was what that first article referred to when it said he was the 10th best pass blocking center in the NFL. Then he was signed by the Jets, where he also got injured. I think it's quite possible this guy could be our new starting center and that's actually not a bad thing at all. Can you count? To me I consider the first article you cited to be the one written before the 2017 season started, not the one written AFTER the first 6 games during that season. Stupid me thinking first meant the one written first chronologically. Regardless, I stand by my assertion that the guy who was a "disaster" last season, to quote the same sources you used, is a far less than great pickup. The guy who the Jets jettisoned one year after giving a 4 yr 27 million dollar contract was highly coveted, right? Everyone knows that the Jets just have an embarrassment of riches on the o line and had to let him go. Then again it is the Jets and they are laughable compared to the Bills. One of the big books in Vegas just labeled the Bills tied for last in likelihood to win next year's SB. What the ***** do they know? The real experts wear Bills goggles.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 Dang ! 13 pages on a middling Center ?? 1
Thurman#1 Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 15 hours ago, Juice_32 said: This. My guess is he is being brought in to provide versatile depth as a C/G backup. He is an improvement over Groy. This is what it seems like to me. And it's precisely what Beane said would be their approach to free agency ... bring in guys to fill all the holes, so they don't have to draft from need. And yet spend judiciously. That's what we've got here. He looks like a guy who if they can't bring in a Paradis or draft a Bradbury or someone like him, that this guy would be a guy you wouldn't mind as a starter, at guard or center. An upgrade on what we have. But if we do bring in some of those other guys Long would be a backup far better than what we have now. People want Beane to go nuts and bring in tons of expensive FAs. That's not judicious. We'll be seeing a bunch of guys of Long's level brought in, IMO. 1
Thurman#1 Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Turk71 said: His 4.5 to 5 million per would have made him the 8th highest paid Bill this past season. As of now his salary makes him the 7th or 8th highest paid Bill for 2019 and by far the highest paid o lineman on the team this coming season. About double what #2 Bodine and #3 Ducasse get, laughable if not so sad and pathetic. WTF are they thinking? I want to believe in Beane but this kind of signing in Feb before fa make it difficult. Better linemen will be cast off of teams and picked up for peanuts by others before all is said and done. I try to forget that Beane gave Corey Coleman 3 million guaranteed and he never made the team or played a down. For perspective a guy who didn't make the team was the 11th highest paid player on it last season. This is ridiculous. So, you're spinning this so that the many young guys on rookie contracts and therefore cheap, like Josh Allen, Tre White, Edmunds, Milano, etc ... that's somehow bad. Because that's all it means that Long is the 7th or 8th highest paid Bill ... that we don't have a lot of high-paid guys right now. A lot of rookie contracts. That's not a bad thing, just the opposite, really. Most teams are a bit older so a guy paid this much would be more like 9th to 11th. On the Rams it'd be the 13th highest. It cracks me up. People get all excited about having FA money to spend, they go on and on about how we need to get better at OL, and then when we start ... cue the moans and screams about how we're spending too much. Edited February 13, 2019 by Thurman#1 1
Turk71 Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: So, you're spinning this so that the many young guys on rookie contracts and therefore cheap, like Josh Allen, Tre White, Edmunds, Milano, etc ... those are somehow bad because we have so few highly paid guys that paying a guy like this a journeyman's salary making him the 7th or 8th highest on the team is somehow a bad thing? Most teams are a bit older so a guy paid this much would be more like 9th to 11th. On the Rams it'd be the 13th highest. It cracks me up. People get all excited about having FA money to spend, they go on and on about how we need to get better at OL, and then when we start ... cue the moans and screams about how we're spending too much. What I am saying is paying 'this' guy that much is a bad idea. You are just making that rookie ***** up. Get value everywhere you can. Don't waste limited resources. Pay up for true difference makers. Don't overspend for low demand castoffs. Edited February 13, 2019 by Turk71
nucci Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 16 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Pretty good signing in February why?
Nihilarian Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 The signing of a Jets starter that played so poorly last year that the new regime cut him tells me not much has changed since the Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley eras of bringing in scrubs and hoping that they can get the job done. Some Bills fans are upset at this signing and justifiably so when you hope to see high-quality upgrades on the line and now Beane signs a "maybe" player. Maybe it was an injury and maybe he is just another bum like all the rest they signed last year. I know this is not the way I was hoping this FO would replace Eric Woods, Richie Incognito! The only position he might be a decent upgrade at is at RG as Mills is hopefully gone and even then I was hoping for better. I want to see this franchise build a dominant offensive line. 3 hours ago, Doc Brown said: I need to see the contract details before giving my opinion. If it's really a one year prove it deal like the contract he signed with the Jets. (say it's three million base with four million guaranteed with no dead cap money if w release him after one year), I'll be happy with that. If he surprises and becomes a solid starter then we won't have to worry about signing him again next two years as you would with a one year prove it deal. That's a solid signing then. If most of this is guaranteed then it's likely an awful move. This!
formerlyofCtown Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 So last year it was Bodine and now we are sifting through dumpsters in NY.
Thurman#1 Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Turk71 said: What I am saying is paying 'this' guy that much is a bad idea. You are just making that rookie ***** up. Get value everywhere you can. Don't waste limited resources. Pay up for true difference makers. Don't overspend for low demand castoffs. Well, if you're saying that "paying 'this' guy that much is a bad idea," then the fact that he's the 7th or 8th highest paid guy on the Bills has absolutely zero relevance to your argument. I'm "making that rookie ***** up," right? Yeah, I'm sure there must be someone out there who knows what the ***** you are talking about. Not me, though. Everything I said about rookie contracts is true. I may not have expressed it well ... I was editing it as you answered, but it's true. We're a young team and a lot of our better players are on rookie contracts and thus cheap. "Pay up for true difference makers," you say? Please. You don't get "true difference makers" for $4.3 to $5 mill after the rookie contract is over. And more, you're acting as if you know how this guy, Long, will do. And you don't. Your opinion is that he's a low demand castoff but actually he got a much higher 2nd contract ($9 mill a year if I remember correctly) till he was thrown out due to a regime change in NY. There might have been plenty of demand for him. We don't really know. What we can be sure of is that Beane valued him in this system as worth what they paid ... which is a sort of high-paid journeyman rate. We'll see if he's worth that. My guess is he will be, but we'll have to wait to see. And this really is the eternal cycle ... 1) Bellyache for two years at the pain of the rebuild and cap clearing. 2) Then get excited about all the cap space. 3) Then expect that the cap space will all be spent, and that lots of top FAs will be brought in ... despite the GM telling us he's going to be judicious about spending. 4) Then when the GM does in fact do his best to be judicious and the guys brought in aren't the top two or three guys in FA, we moan and whimper in two ways ... If the contracts are low, complain they're dumpster-diving cheapskates If the contracts are medium, complain that they spent too much without getting one of the top few FAs at his position. ... and on and on and on. Edited February 13, 2019 by Thurman#1 1
simpleman Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 I have no problem with giving him a shot at Guard. Or using him as the interior swing guy. But this is bad news if this means we don't go after a top quality Center for starter and draft a Center in the later rounds. He is mediocre at Center. Better than the horrible we have now, but not a good sign if we are seriously trying to build a solid OL to protect our QB and facilitate his growth and keep him healthy.
GunnerBill Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 6 hours ago, dezertbill said: I hope the Bills are looking at him as a G with the potential to back up C. He has had more success in the league than Bodine, Ducasse, Miller or Teller. Was a stud in WAS which earned him a 3 yr $27 mil deal w/ Jets. His biggest hit last year was playing C with injured thumb. He came back to finish season at G and performed well. Blocking schemes has a lot to do with it as well. Plus Jets were a mess. I believe signing him gives us a solid starting G, with Teller & Miller potentially fighting for other G spot with a early draft pick. I wouldn't say a stud in Washington.... I think he was serviceable strarter there and as a guard, not a center. He is better than the other guards on the roster currently.
Chandler#81 Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Turk71 said: Can you count? To me I consider the first article you cited to be the one written before the 2017 season started, not the one written AFTER the first 6 games during that season. Stupid me thinking first meant the one written first chronologically. Regardless, I stand by my assertion that the guy who was a "disaster" last season, to quote the same sources you used, is a far less than great pickup. The guy who the Jets jettisoned one year after giving a 4 yr 27 million dollar contract was highly coveted, right? Everyone knows that the Jets just have an embarrassment of riches on the o line and had to let him go. Then again it is the Jets and they are laughable compared to the Bills. One of the big books in Vegas just labeled the Bills tied for last in likelihood to win next year's SB. What the ***** do they know? The real experts wear Bills goggles. Lighten up, Francis.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Nihilarian said: The signing of a Jets starter that played so poorly last year that the new regime cut him tells me not much has changed since the Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley eras of bringing in scrubs and hoping that they can get the job done. Some Bills fans are upset at this signing and justifiably so when you hope to see high-quality upgrades on the line and now Beane signs a "maybe" player. Maybe it was an injury and maybe he is just another bum like all the rest they signed last year. I know this is not the way I was hoping this FO would replace Eric Woods, Richie Incognito! The only position he might be a decent upgrade at is at RG as Mills is hopefully gone and even then I was hoping for better. I want to see this franchise build a dominant offensive line. Because, of course, this is the only move they're going to make on the offensive line. Jeez man, get a hold of yourself. 1
GunnerBill Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 Worth saying to those freaking out over this just step back and consider our interior OLine position before this signing: 2018 Starters John Miller - UFA - unlikely to be back Wyat Teller - Under rookie contract - 2nd year player with 7 below average starts under his belt Russell Bodine - Under contract - To cut him would cost $500k in dead money but produce cap savings of $2.3m 2018 Depth Ryan Groy - UFA - unlikely to be back Vlad Ducasse - Under contract - To cut would cost less than $100k in dead money and produce cap savings of $2m Jeremiah Sirles - Extended for 1 year - Can be cut at $0 cost and might not make the roster Ike Boettger - Under contract - 0 NFL Starts can be cut at $0 cost. The only and I genuinely think ONLY one of those who is guaranteed to be on the 2019 roster is Wyatt Teller. The rest could all be disposed of with a cost of less than $600k in dead money. They need to be turning over every stone to find people to improve the OL. Taking a chance on a guy who had a bad year playing injured but has been a serviceable above average starter elsewhere in the past is fine in my book. If by the end of the draft this is the only move they have made then that is a different story. 6 2
mjt328 Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Nihilarian said: The signing of a Jets starter that played so poorly last year that the new regime cut him tells me not much has changed since the Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley eras of bringing in scrubs and hoping that they can get the job done. Some Bills fans are upset at this signing and justifiably so when you hope to see high-quality upgrades on the line and now Beane signs a "maybe" player. Maybe it was an injury and maybe he is just another bum like all the rest they signed last year. I know this is not the way I was hoping this FO would replace Eric Woods, Richie Incognito! The only position he might be a decent upgrade at is at RG as Mills is hopefully gone and even then I was hoping for better. I want to see this franchise build a dominant offensive line. Free Agency hasn't started. The Draft hasn't started. Beane literally signed the ONLY offensive lineman with starting experience available in February. And people are freaking out like the front office is done adding players and ready to move into training camp. Besides. The best veteran signings are always the ones that fly under the radar. Remember all the criticism after we signed Jordan Poyer? One of the priority moves of this regime was to sign a safety from a 1-15 team with a terrible secondary. 6 1
SydneyBillsFan Posted February 13, 2019 Posted February 13, 2019 17 hours ago, LeviF91 said: It's funny because Denver's mascot is a horse but also John Elway looks like a horse. Well yeah, from the lips/teeth down I guess it's hard to argue. Only thing missing on Elway is a mouthful of hay.
Recommended Posts