D'haquille aka Duke Williams, Bills' newest WR better than any draft prospect

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think he believes in chasing game changing players in the first round, not once he has his QB and MLB.   I think he's look to increase the total talent level on the team.  

 

Since McDermott arrived we've traded up 4 times. Trading up for a QB any team would do, but not every team trades up for an MLB. That leads me to believe they will trade up for any talent that fills a need if they see the value there. A wrecking ball at DT is just as important in McDermott's defense as a rangy MLB. I think they have their eye on Ed Oliver and if he falls past 5 they'll happily trade a mid-round pick to go get him. If the process goes according to plan this will be the last time in a long time we'll be in the range of blue chip 1st round players. I don't think they'll feel comfortable just sitting and waiting to see who falls. They want another elite talent.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree.  Last year with the trade-ups for Allen and Edmunds told me he's looking for game changing talent in the 1st.

 

 

...so based on the ever changing landscape so far 'Doc, what position do you see him moving up for or what individual as well that you could see as a perfect fit for "game changing" mantra?.....TE?...OL?...DL?...???.......

Edited April 6, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[SouthNYfan]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

If that's true, then WR is out.  No one is worth 9th overall.  Metcalf is a huge gamble and not worth it.  He reminds me of Yatil Green too much. 

 

And BPA is subjective.  For example, for the Cards, Murray is BPA in the entire draft.  To other teams...not so much.

 

So which is it??

 

No one is worth 9th overall TO YOU.

beane/bills might feel a wr/te IS bpa @#9.

 

You literally just invalidated your first statement by saying you feel it's subjective (which it is, I agree)

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Since McDermott arrived we've traded up 4 times. Trading up for a QB any team would do, but not every team trades up for an MLB. That leads me to believe they will trade up for any talent that fills a need if they see the value there. A wrecking ball at DT is just as important in McDermott's defense as a rangy MLB. I think they have their eye on Ed Oliver and if he falls past 5 they'll happily trade a mid-round pick to go get him. If the process goes according to plan this will be the last time in a long time we'll be in the range of blue chip 1st round players. I don't think they'll feel comfortable just sitting and waiting to see who falls. They want another elite talent.

I wonder about this a lot, and you may be right.  

 

I assume three of the trade ups are 22 to 12, 12 to seven and 23 to 16, or whatever the exact numbers were.  Not sure what the fourth one was, but I don't think it was in the first round.   

 

QB is a special case, and I think MLB is a special case for McD, because he's experienced the importance of having a star there.  You may be right that he thinks the same about a star DT.  (One of the adages I often quote is that the most important players in the game are the guys who play closest to the ball, and McD now has three of the four - Center, QR, MLB.  Monster DT is the one he's missing, so you may be right.)   

 

But when you listen to Beane talk about the D line prospects, he says they're deep in this draft.   He said it in response to a question about whether he felt any urgency to go after a position.  The clear implication was that he wasn't in a hurry to chase d line talent in the first round.  That doesn't prove anything, but it's why I think he isn't so likely to trade up.  

 

Still, it's clear he has no fear, so anything is possible.  

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I assume three of the trade ups are 22 to 12, 12 to seven and 23 to 16, or whatever the exact numbers were.  Not sure what the fourth one was, but I don't think it was in the first round.   

 

 

We traded up for Jones, Dawkins, Allen, and Edmunds. 4 trade ups in the first two rounds in just 2 drafts. We have 10 picks and I doubt we'll use all of them. They spent a lot in free agency to give themselves flexibility in the draft. 

[starrymessenger]

I agree with those who say that Duke has been gifted an excellent opportunity. Like other position groups on offence there will be lots of competition and room to make the roster, especially if the Bills don't prioritize WR in the draft (if eg. they go DT and edge the first two rounds). Williams is a big physical receiver who tracks the ball well and has excellent hands. The team can use a player with this skillset if he can transition. If Daboll opts for some 11 personnel sets I can see him as a useful complement in his O, and a big help to Allen especially mid-range over the middle of the field. He wasn't asked to block in Edmonton, but if he can do that I can see him as possibly serving occasionally as a borderline hybrid TE. I think he is a better receiver than Charles Clay at this point in Clay's career. 

Idk whether or how well he will make out against a big step up in the level of play. I doubt that he will be a star but he may prove a useful addition and well worth a roster spot. At the very least it' will be interesting to see how his story plays out.

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...so based on the ever changing landscape so far 'Doc, what position do you see him moving up for or what individual as well that you could see as a perfect fit for "game changing" mantra?.....TE?...OL?...DL?...???.......

 

DL.  Could be Oliver, Allen, or Williams.

 

33 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

So which is it??

 

No one is worth 9th overall TO YOU.

beane/bills might feel a wr/te IS bpa @#9.

 

You literally just invalidated your first statement by saying you feel it's subjective (which it is, I agree)

 

No, I meant no WR is worth 9th overall. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

DL.  Could be Oliver, Allen, or Williams.

 

 

No, I meant no WR is worth 9th overall. 

 

...Doc, on the OL side, keep seeing the Taylor kid's name popping up more often....yes?...no?...maybe?......

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

We traded up for Jones, Dawkins, Allen, and Edmunds. 4 trade ups in the first two rounds in just 2 drafts. We have 10 picks and I doubt we'll use all of them. They spent a lot in free agency to give themselves flexibility in the draft. 

As I said, I don't think trade ups to move higher in the second are that noteworthy.  We're talking here about using major draft capital to move up higher than 9.   That's what I think is unlikely.  But as I said, what do I know?   I don't have Beane's private number. 

 

And Dawkins and Jones weren't Beane's drafts.  

Edited April 6, 2019 by Shaw66

[Doc]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...Doc, on the OL side, keep seeing the Taylor kid's name popping up more often....yes?...no?...maybe?......

 

I don't see it  I think they'll give Dawkins this season to prove that he's the franchise LT they thought he could be when they drafted him and looked like he could be in 2017.  If he is, great, no need for another LT.  If not, then Nsekhe takes over there, they move Dawkins to LG to potentially take over for Spain next year, and draft a LT next year.

[SouthNYfan]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

DL.  Could be Oliver, Allen, or Williams.

 

 

No, I meant no WR is worth 9th overall. 

 

Which is subjective.

 

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

Which is subjective.

 

Exactly.  So who is to say who is truly BPA at 9?  In this case, it will be the Bills.  They may not want to invest anything more into the WR corps and look to another position, claiming that the other position was "BPA."

Edited April 6, 2019 by Doc

[SouthNYfan]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Exactly.  So who is to say who is truly BPA at 9?  In this case, it will be the Bills.  They may not want to invest anything more into the WR corps and look to another position, claiming that the other position was "BPA."

 

That I agree with.

 

Mecalf is very polarizing

Similar to Allen and Edmunds

Athletic freaks with huge upside but big risk (boom/bust)

Beane's track record last year would suggest that they want high upside freaks, at least early in the draft, which would point to Metcalf/fant

They also may decide that wr/te aren't as important as DL/OL right now

They also might decide to play it safer this year with the lower ceiling/higher floor prospect with less risk

It's all a crapshoot right now haha

 

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Since McDermott arrived we've traded up 4 times. Trading up for a QB any team would do, but not every team trades up for an MLB. That leads me to believe they will trade up for any talent that fills a need if they see the value there. A wrecking ball at DT is just as important in McDermott's defense as a rangy MLB. I think they have their eye on Ed Oliver and if he falls past 5 they'll happily trade a mid-round pick to go get him. If the process goes according to plan this will be the last time in a long time we'll be in the range of blue chip 1st round players. I don't think they'll feel comfortable just sitting and waiting to see who falls. They want another elite talent.

whom ever they pick at nine should be elite talent. That fills a need.

 : )

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I can't see them taking a TE at 9.  I just can't.

 

 

They went after AB and then decided against it and signed JB and CB.  Again I can't see them taking a WR, much less in this class, anywhere on day 1 or 2.  Next year?  Maybe.

I don't either.

 

I'm thinking DL and/or OL before TE

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, starrymessenger said:

I agree with those who say that Duke has been gifted an excellent opportunity. Like other position groups on offence there will be lots of competition and room to make the roster, especially if the Bills don't prioritize WR in the draft (if eg. they go DT and edge the first two rounds). Williams is a big physical receiver who tracks the ball well and has excellent hands. The team can use a player with this skillset if he can transition. If Daboll opts for some 11 personnel sets I can see him as a useful complement in his O, and a big help to Allen especially mid-range over the middle of the field. He wasn't asked to block in Edmonton, but if he can do that I can see him as possibly serving occasionally as a borderline hybrid TE. I think he is a better receiver than Charles Clay at this point in Clay's career. 

Idk whether or how well he will make out against a big step up in the level of play. I doubt that he will be a star but he may prove a useful addition and well worth a roster spot. At the very least it' will be interesting to see how his story plays out.

good post.

[#34fan]

No way he's running butt-naked in the middle of the field like that in the NFL.

 

We've had LB's that cover better than CFL corners.

[eball]

1 hour ago, starrymessenger said:

I agree with those who say that Duke has been gifted an excellent opportunity. Like other position groups on offence there will be lots of competition and room to make the roster, especially if the Bills don't prioritize WR in the draft (if eg. they go DT and edge the first two rounds). Williams is a big physical receiver who tracks the ball well and has excellent hands. The team can use a player with this skillset if he can transition. If Daboll opts for some 11 personnel sets I can see him as a useful complement in his O, and a big help to Allen especially mid-range over the middle of the field. He wasn't asked to block in Edmonton, but if he can do that I can see him as possibly serving occasionally as a borderline hybrid TE. I think he is a better receiver than Charles Clay at this point in Clay's career. 

Idk whether or how well he will make out against a big step up in the level of play. I doubt that he will be a star but he may prove a useful addition and well worth a roster spot. At the very least it' will be interesting to see how his story plays out.

 

Very reasonable take and, I think, an appropriate level of expectations. If Duke wows us all, great!

[SouthNYfan]

15 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Very reasonable take and, I think, an appropriate level of expectations. If Duke wows us all, great!

 

Agreed.

 

I didn't read through all of the thread, but the op asserts, even in the title, that he's better than any draft prospect.

He's also 25.

DK for example is 21.

That's 4 years, which isn't peanuts in the NFL.

Drafting a guy who might be with you for 8-10 years vs 4-5 for Duke before they hit that 30-31 year old wall, is something that shouldn't be ignored.

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, R Y G A R said:

I hope Mckenzie makes it. I like him a lot on those jet sweeps. 

The jet sweeps went from trash to effective when they started giving the ball to McKittrick and not Zay.