Do you agree with Kornheiser? Brady NEEDED 6 wins to be compared to Jordan?

[Dkollidas]

On 2/5/2019 at 2:43 AM, BigDingus said:

When talking about the GOAT conversation in North American sports on PTI, they discussed Brady & now comparing him to Jordan. Then they had this exchange that made me think Kornheiser is an idiot, watch the full exchange here

- 

 

 

Kornheiser: "You know, I'm not saying he's better, I'm saying they are shoulder to shoulder in the annals of history.

 

Wilbon: "Yeah, and they were shoulder to shoulder already."

 

Kornheiser: "I don't know that, I don't know that.....If they had lost this to go 5 & 4, I don't know. 6 is magic."


Uh what? What makes six championships in the NFL more "magic" than five? Five had NEVER been done before by any QB, so you're telling me not only did Brady matching Joe Montana & Terry Bradshaw in the era of Free Agency not qualify, but being the first & likely only QB to ever win 5 Super Bowls, as well as having played in 8 up until that point not convince you? He had to win six...IN THE NFL...to be adequately comparable to Jordan?

Why? Jordan is a legend, yes. But even if he is the GOAT, 6 rings isn't the pinnacle of his sport and isn't what cemented him as the GOAT, so why does the number 6 for championships translate to a magic number? Kareem had 6, several more have 7-10, and Bill Russell has freaking 11, so why isn't 11 the "magic number?" I mean it's just as arbitrary as 6 when applied to the NFL, so I think it's pretty stupid to say Brady's 5 before last night wasn't enough to already say he's shoulder to shoulder.

Jim Kelly was a first ballot HOFer losing 4. Marino was as well losing his only 1. Favre went 1-1. Elway & Manning combined went 4-5! Brady having himself gone 5-3 up through last night, or even 5-4 had they lost, in a league where only 1 QB has ever even just PLAYED in Super Bowls let alone WIN 5, you're telling me Brady still had to win another one to qualify? Why didn't Jordan have to win 11 to qualify? Because he was so dominant anyway in the regular season & post season. In one generation, Brady & Belichick have brought the Pats from 0 Super Bowls to tying the Steelers for most all time with 6. Other historic franchises like the Packers, Cowboys, 49ers, Giants, etc. have all been surpassed by just 1 generation of QB+HC. That's insane.
 

Tom Brady will hit #2 all time in passing yards if he plays another full season next year (he's #4 now, only 1,400+ yards from #2 behind Brees), only needs 22 TD's to pass Peyton Manning for #1 all time (though he's 3 TD's behind Brees right now), is the winningest postseason QB of all time, has the most Superbowl MVP's of all time, has 3 regular season MVPs, and countless other records that shouldn't NEED a 6th Super Bowl win to be "shoulder to shoulder" with Jordan in NA sports.

 

I hate the guy and can't wait until he finally friggin retires. But I know I'll never see something like this in my lifetime ever again and have to respect that. In the NFL, doing what he's done puts him shoulder to shoulder with Jordan easily, and that was before winning a 6th ring. People are willing to argue Lebron is shoulder to shoulder with Jordan, and even better than Jordan, and he only has 3 rings out of 9 trips! So how the hell is 6 the magic number for FOOTBALL, but 3 is ok for basketball? I dunno why I felt the need to rant about this, but man that argument was so stupid. I'll be THRILLED if the Bills have a QB that leads us to one Superbowl win....I can only imagine how it would feel to go 9 times and win 6. 

 

Maybe not in our minds, but maybe in his mind? I’m 33, and the greatest athlete I ever saw was Jordan. The 6rings in 8 yrs (2yrs retired of course) was among the greatest achievements in sports. Brady May want 7 just to say he’s better. Let’s also not forget that Jordan and Brady have done what they have done in bigger leagues with the talent more spread throughout the league. 

[row_33]

I have zero tolerance for clowns yelling at each other on a sports panel

 

unless I’m in a hotel room in the US

 

 

[billsbackto81]

13 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Law is already.

Must of got in this year. Haven't followed HOF in a while. I see Mawae got in to. Very good players but I don't feel their Hall worthy. But then again my opinion doesn't count towards the voting.

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

"The ring nonsense." ?

 

Brees was garbage the 1st 3 years of his career. So bad they drafted Philip Rivers to replace him. He has been great since, but isn't close to Brady. The Saints went 3 years sub 500 recently.

 

The next closest QB has 4 rings. Brady has 6. And I know it's a team sport, but the entire team has changed 3 times over and they still win. The only lasting piece is Brady. 

 

Thats team again brother.  We are talking about individual.  I guess you just are intelligent enough to figure it out.  

According to you Trent Dilfer is a greater QB than Kelly or Marino.

It really looked like Brady won them that SB on Sunday huh.  Im done wasting my time with you.

43 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Pops your reference to 30 years ago is nice

 

that was like old timers telling me about Nagurski and how he was tougher than the Steel Curtain D-line in the 70s.  

 

Sports were best when we were 11, that was 1977-78 for me, worthy champs but not worth mentioning except to people my age

 

we need a nap....?

Or to people that actually study the game.  Unlike the influx of casual fans that think they know what they are talking about by listening to media that are trying to promote the current product which they make money off of.

BTW Im only 37, but I think for myself and actually look into things.  I got know problem with someone disagreeing with me but im kinda sick of people wanting to argue without offering anything of substance.  Always been a cat and dog guy, not big on parrots.

Edited February 6, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[row_33]

31 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Thats team again brother.  We are talking about individual.  I guess you just are intelligent enough to figure it out.  

According to you Trent Dilfer is a greater QB than Kelly or Marino.

It really looked like Brady won them that SB on Sunday huh.  Im done wasting my time with you.

Or to people that actually study the game.  Unlike the influx of casual fans that think they know what they are talking about by listening to media that are trying to promote the current product which they make money off of.

BTW Im only 37, but I think for myself and actually look into things.  I got know problem with someone disagreeing with me but im kinda sick of people wanting to argue without offering anything of substance.  Always been a cat and dog guy, not big on parrots.

 

 

In Marino’s day you suddenly couldn’t touch the WRs so he feasted on this,shamelessly  padding his stats right to the last second of a game.

 

enjoy the present day games and hold some good memories of days long gone. It will always seem softer and easier for the next generation...

 

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

44 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

 

In Marino’s day you suddenly couldn’t touch the WRs so he feasted on this,shamelessly  padding his stats right to the last second of a game.

 

enjoy the present day games and hold some good memories of days long gone. It will always seem softer and easier for the next generation...

 

 

 

It really started in 2002 with QBs and 2005 with Recievers.  According to the info I have found.  But back in your day just about anything was legal

[row_33]

Just now, formerlyofCtown said:

It really started in 2002 with QBs and 2005 with Recievers.  According to the info I have found.  But back in your day just about anything was legal

 

In 1978 they stopped contact on the D after 5 yards due to a man getting paralyzed from a needless hit, but legal, in a preseason game 

 

to me that was the start of the passing era, Marino shamelessly was the first to pad his stats with it. But he was also of the greatest talents I have ever watched, don’t get me wrong...

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

In 1978 they stopped contact on the D after 5 yards due to a man getting paralyzed from a needless hit, but legal, in a preseason game 

 

to me that was the start of the passing era, Marino shamelessly was the first to pad his stats with it. But he was also of the greatest talents I have ever watched, don’t get me wrong...

Thanks I didnt know when the 5 yard rule came into it.  Todays game is almost not worth watching but I guess over time you get used to the changes. 

And we still got the Bills to root for nomater what rules they are under.  

Everybody falls under those same rules.

Well except that one team?

Edited February 6, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[TigerJ]

Granted, Brady is a first ballot Hall of Famer, beyond that, not caring for him, I don't care much for trying to decide if he is the greatest of all time, or football's version of Michael Jordan, or whatever.  Kornheiser can talk about it if he wants to.  I don't listen to Kornheiser anyway.

[Chris66]

Marino was a better passer, but not a better qb. Marino did one thing well. Throw it downfield. I dont know if he would have the football iq in todays nfl. I think todays coordinators would figure him out pretty quick. 

 

Its such a different game today than it was 30 years ago.

[Rob's House]

I've never been big on judging individual players of team sports by championships. Even in basketball too much depends on your supporting cast, and that's with only 5 starters.

 

Is Kevin Durant better now than he was at OKC?

 

Was Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino?

 

Is Jim Kelly a better QB if Norwood makes the kick?

 

Is Brady's performance somehow different if Viniateri misses some of those game winning kicks?

 

Is Brett Favre a better QB if the Packers defense stopped Terrell Davis while Favre was watching from the sidelines?

 

Were Lebron's championships in Miami more impressive than taking a mediocre Cleveland team to the finals?

 

The obvious answer to all these questions is no, but these are often the factors that make the difference.

 

[Big Turk]

Basketball is a lot easier to win titles...basically only 3 or 4 teams each year have a legit chance to win a championship...in the NFL 6th seed wildcard teams sometimes win the Super Bowl...this is NEVER seen in the NBA.

[Billzgobowlin]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:31 PM, Bills2ref said:

It is SO much more difficult, as a superstar, to dominate a sport where 11 men are on the field compared to 5. I would argue the easiest sport to create a dynasty would be the NBA. In no other sport can your star play so often, with so few opponents on the court or field. One dominate player can run a dynasty in the NBA relatively easily. 

If true name another team that had a player in basketball win for six year in a row.  It might be easier for a basketball player to dominate but it is also easier for teams to knock them off with stacking up players on their teams. 

[thunderingsquid]

Great.   The Goodell-Kraft plan worked.  Props to them.  

 

Let's move on to drafting and signing DTs, edge rushers and LBs that will crush him.  

Edited February 7, 2019 by thunderingsquid

[Chris66]

21 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

If true name another team that had a player in basketball win for six year in a row.  It might be easier for a basketball player to dominate but it is also easier for teams to knock them off with stacking up players on their teams. 

 

Bill Russell 59-66

[Billzgobowlin]

7 hours ago, Chris66 said:

 

Bill Russell 59-66

If you want to go that far back we can say that Bart Starr would be the greatest of all time.  When you go that far back and 8 and 9 teams in the league it is much easier to be dominant.

[MJS]

Seems like a dumb discussion. Two different sports. Not comparable.