The Phantom Hold and why the NFL is dying

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The rams not scoring a TD for 60 mins was a turning point

[fan_in_tx]

13 hours ago, Logic said:

The holding call stunk. 

HOWEVER...

Football is and always has been an imperfect game. It is subject to human error by the officials, whose jobs are much harder than they appear to us who get to watch the game from our couch in super slo-mo HD. The refs pretty much "let 'em play" all night long on Sunday, for better or worse. The play you mentioned was one exception.

The bad holding call didn't cause Goff to throw too late to a wide open Cooks, negating a touchdown. The bad holding call didn't force the Rams to come out in base defensive personnel on four straight plays against the Pats empty sets, leading to an easy Pats touchdown drive. The bad holding call didn't cause Wade Phillips to choose not to double cover Julian PEDelman on numerous critical 3rd downs. Even DIRECTLY after that holding call, on 2nd and 22, the instant replay showed that Robert Woods got WIDE open for first down yardage on a deep square in. Goff missed him and chucked it deep to the well-covered flanker instead. I could go on and on.

The bottom line is that blaming the entire outcome of the game on one bad offensive holding call -- when the Rams had NUMEROUS opportunities to win that game, needing only to score TWO touchdowns in four quarters -- is bogus. The Pats earned the win, the Rams earned the loss. 

I watched the replay of Browns / Bills 1989 Div Playoff game on youtube.  That was the best era of football.  Good solid tackling, no ref interference and very very few holding calls.  As a matter of fact watching the line play on both team you would see solid blocking across the line, no zone schemes just head up beat me if you can.  The rules of the game in 1989 were simple to follow.  A catch was a catch a hard hit was a hard hit ( no such thing as targeting) defense would try to separate you from the ball.  There was one missed call an interception that was called a down ball, but other than that it was the way football was meant to be played.  Game sucks today.. too many variables on all plays...

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

42 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

Other sports have incorporated technology to limit the impact of bad calls. Sports like rugby and soccer utilize variants of VAR (video assisted referee) to make refs aware of missed or bad calls. It's significantly faster than the instant replay currently used in the NFL and solves these types of things. I'm did not watch the game so I can't comment on how many bad or missed calls there were but I do know that VAR would have prevented that bad holding call from standing.

 

The NFL has survived for nearly 100 years with out VAR. We don't need VAR for every single play. And holding like many other penalties will always be subjective to a degree. 

[BillsfaninSB]

It pains me to say it but when the Patriots play well,  which is often obviously, they leave such a small margin of error for the opposing team.  One sketchy penalty call comes across as though the game is rigged.

 

No doubt, that call was lame.  But a SB caliber team should be able to brush that off. At the time, that call felt like a turnover because the Rams offense was being flat out stopped. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by BillsfaninSB

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

33 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

This may be the best post to really show Buffalo's mediocrity that I've ever seen on TBD.

 

I'm guessing the charts for Miami and the Jets aren't much better either. Pats have never had to worry about another 12+ win team in the division for the last 18+ years.

[Orlando Buffalo]

The problem with the officiating in the NFL is they often call what they expect not what they saw and it is often extremely inconsitent. It is not a conspiracy to point out that last season i had no idea what constitutes a proper catch. It is not conspiracy to point out that some rules and more strictly enforced than others. And it is not conspiracy to point out that in a 3-3 game in the 4th qtr that call had a huge impact. I do not think OP was calling it a set up but simply pointing out the only worse officials are in the WWE. 

[BillsFan1988]

14 hours ago, Logic said:

The holding call stunk. 

HOWEVER...

Football is and always has been an imperfect game. It is subject to human error by the officials, whose jobs are much harder than they appear to us who get to watch the game from our couch in super slo-mo HD. The refs pretty much "let 'em play" all night long on Sunday, for better or worse. The play you mentioned was one exception.

The bad holding call didn't cause Goff to throw too late to a wide open Cooks, negating a touchdown. The bad holding call didn't force the Rams to come out in base defensive personnel on four straight plays against the Pats empty sets, leading to an easy Pats touchdown drive. The bad holding call didn't cause Wade Phillips to choose not to double cover Julian PEDelman on numerous critical 3rd downs. Even DIRECTLY after that holding call, on 2nd and 22, the instant replay showed that Robert Woods got WIDE open for first down yardage on a deep square in. Goff missed him and chucked it deep to the well-covered flanker instead. I could go on and on.

The bottom line is that blaming the entire outcome of the game on one bad offensive holding call -- when the Rams had NUMEROUS opportunities to win that game, needing only to score TWO touchdowns in four quarters -- is bogus. The Pats earned the win, the Rams earned the loss. 

How is it that Pat's never seem to be on the wrong end of the imperfect officials

Edited February 5, 2019 by BillsFan1988
Want to add more content

[BillsFan1988]

Let them play I think this is also the theme for the Pats themselves not for there opponents. 

 

How is it with human error officials Pat's can go multiple playoffs without being called for holding? I truly believe the Pat's are a great organization and don't really need the help in most gms. But it like they always get the pressure point calls at the worst time for other team. Something just smells like smoke and where there is smoke There's usually fire.

[zow2]

The refs in football call too many penalties that they *THINK* they see.  It's really hard to tell in real time with the speed of the game.  Therefore coaches should be able to challenge holding, PI, and some other stuff that they currently cannot challenge.  

I personally don't care if the games take 4 hours or whatever.  Football is only a once a week game.  I don't care if it gets bogged down by challenges.  Just get it right.  

[BillsFan1988]

10 hours ago, Chris66 said:

 

So all the other owners are going along with this conspiracy.

 

If you actually think this way. Then it doesnt matter what the Bills do in the off season.

Doesn't have to be the all owners. It's Goodell & his cronies and obviously Kraft .

[BillsFan1988]

14 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

That call pry wouldn't have been reversed though as John Sullivan did have a hold of the defenders jersey so it would have to be indisputable video evidence that he didn't .  I like the idea of giving the head coach one challenge a game to challenge a ref's judgement call and another one in the final five minutes of the game.  I just worry about it slowing the game down even more.

Maybe the NFL Needs to implement or change the way they call holding. We all know to some degree jerseys are being grabbed on every play. Especially on run downs or after the catch sometimes they call the hold away from the play. The ones that have nothing to do with said play shouldn't be counted. 

 

Here's another idea maybe the lineman should wear a special type of gloves that doesn't allow them to hold whatsoever. 

[Estelle Getty]

4 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

 

 

I know right?    

 

He's gonna die before the NFL does, I guarantee you that.

Im sure you will go before both of us so you won’t be there to find out!

[Andy1]

Lots of good comments in this thread. This is my theory... While organized conspiracy is probably too much to call it, I do believe the NFL officials are aware of marketing and league interests and those views color or flavor when the whistle is blown. QBs are the product the NFL likes to market and protect. They are the stars. Brady and Belichick are both GOATs and officials call the game with that in their mind. The NFL also wants a good story. Good vs evil, legends made, some controversy, etc. all to keep the ratings up.

 

None of this has really held the Bills back, as frustrating as it is to watch, because we have never been able to find the answer at QB. Thus, we have generally been mediocre at best. I am hopeful that if JA proves to be a good QB, that he may become a marketable face of the NFL in the new generation of young guns. He has unique skills that not many QBs have that are marketable. He is developing great highlight film material. If Josh proves to be good enough, the calls may start to go the Bills way in the future. Hopefully, it all leads to team success. 

[BillsFan1988]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. KC had most of the bigger calls go their way in that AFCCG.

U sure about that? How bout the Phantom RTP on Brady or the non call on Mahomes getting hit in his face. Ntm the reason Dee Ford was lined up a finger Offside is because Trent Brown was lined up illegally.  

Edited February 5, 2019 by BillsFan1988

[BillsFan1988]

6 hours ago, davspo said:

I'm not a big conspiracy guy, although it does seem that certain teams get the calls more often than not.  Regardless, the state of officiating in the NFL is a real problem.  I really don't have any suggestions on how to fix it, or if it is even fixable.  I do know that for me personally, it has impacted how often I view games.  I will watch the Bills game and that's about it.  I use to watch a lot more.  

I think the problem with the game is all the gray area calls refs have to deal with on a play to play basis. I remember in the 80s & 90s there wasn't all these rules to deal with and everyone knew exactly what a catch was . Occasionally they would blow a pass interference or make a bad holding call. But now I think the refs have a heavy case of system overload which leaves opportunity for massive mistakes. I guess they should at least add 1 more official to the crew maybe that can help.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

13 hours ago, mabden said:

 

My conspiracy theory is that the belicheat/pats*** wanted the Rams over the Saints, so to make that happen, the refs let a blatant PI go that affected the outcome of the game.   Sets up a young inexperienced team vs the pats*** instead of an excellent veteran QB and head coach.  The Saints were robbed and have every right to be pissed.  

 

Half the times edelman was open were due to his ability to push off and not get called for it.

You obviously did not watch the game. Edelman got open by design and quickness. The Rams did not get on him at the line. Most of his crossing routes came from the slot. He burnedeven their best corners with quickness and great route running.

[WideNine]

17 hours ago, Bangarang said:

The OP sounds old and bitter.

 

To be fair to the old and bitter folks...more than a few posters here sound like they live in mom's basement playing Minecraft, do you see me complaining?

 

It's the off-season, may as well talk about how officiating in the NFL blows.

[NoSaint]

17 hours ago, Bangarang said:

The OP sounds old and bitter.

 

The rapper comment really pushed it over the edge 

[Doc Brown]

12 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I think the problem with the game is all the gray area calls refs have to deal with on a play to play basis. I remember in the 80s & 90s there wasn't all these rules to deal with and everyone knew exactly what a catch was . Occasionally they would blow a pass interference or make a bad holding call. But now I think the refs have a heavy case of system overload which leaves opportunity for massive mistakes. I guess they should at least add 1 more official to the crew maybe that can help.

I think with improved technology and camera angles there's more ammunition to criticize the  refs compared to 25 years ago.  Every call against the Pats will be amplified in conspiracy minded folks and I'm surprised that questionable hold is the best they could come up with. 

 

A good coach and quarterback stays on the refs all game complaining about not getting calls.  Refs being human beings will usually give them those 50/50 calls later in the game not wanting to upset them.  MJ in his prime perfected the art as he'd get all the close calls.  The great players getting those close calls is nothing new in sports.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Doc Brown

[billvernsays]

19 hours ago, Estelle Getty said:

The holding call on the Rams center early in the fourth after Gurleys 13 yard run was no doubt the turning point in the game.  Instead of first and 10 on the *patriots 43 after just tying the game and with all of the momentum the Rams faced a 1 and 20 in their own territory.  They went on to punt and the *pats scored the game winning touchdown.  I have watched that replay 10 times and there is no way that should have ever been called a hold.  It’s these “inconspicuous” type of blatant calls in the NFL that have the ratings for the Superbowl at a 10 year low.  

 

The point being people like me are realizing there are just to many variables to be able to win a game in the NFL, with the refs being number 1. You really have to hope that your team is “allowed” to win.  The Rams never really had a chance and it was made clear after that atrocious call. The *pats were penalized TWO TIMES up until the *pats last drive when the game was already over.  How do they play such perfect football?

 

But it isn’t really all about the refs.  There are as many uncotrolled variables as a poker tournement with 3,000 people.  No matter how good you are at the end you need the right run of cards and about a million other tiny things to go your way.  That is the odds of your team winning the Big Game if your not the *pats.  No matter how good you are in the NFL the refs, injuries, freak plays, and many other factors make the NFL a game of luck which is sad to me.  People are realizing it’s all about luck unless your the *pats and winning the Superbowl is just like hitting a # on the roulette wheel, there is really no ryme or  reason when it comes down to it and 31 teams are just hoping they get lucky and the cards fall their way, just a big gamble really.  A game of chance, it’s just the hard truth for fans like us who wish there was justice in something we invested so much time and emotion in.    

 

On a side note edelman winning mvp  is a great message for the kids that if you cheat it pays off. And bravo hiring an arrest riddled rapper to be part of the halftime show. Stay classy Goodell and the NFL

Well said. Football is a game of momentum and almost every game it seems the Pats get certain calls that help their momentum or hurt the team they are playing against.

 

i will say that earlier on the same drive you mentioned the Pats got called for defenssive holding on 3rd and long to extend the drive but then they needed to kill the momentum by throwing a phantom holding call after a big run.