Big Turk Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) Basically Bellichick requires young coaches to do something called "padding". This entails diagramming every play of every game for both aides of the ball including line splits, formations, players on the field, etc and even the movements of all the players on the play. He also requires them to answer what the offense and defense are trying to accomplish on each play as well as detailed observations. This can be grueling with a single game taking up to a few days. To a man all the coaches credit this as "teaching" them immensely about details and what good teams do that bad teams don't etc... Once they finish Bellichick or a senior coach looks at the reports, notes any mistakes or inaccuracies and then gives it back to them. Sometimes they are forced to do the whole game over again. Mistakes are pointed out with impunity, down to the most minute detail...sometimes that they had the wrong jersey number for a player on a given play. Wonder how often other teams use this and even if they did, would it be as effective as Bellichick? Would they spot the mistakes in the reports and send them back for them to see what they did wrong? Would they analyze it the same way? Its said Bellichick sometimes hands it back with up to 75 post it notes all over it pointing out mistakes... Part of what makes Bellichick so great is that he is able to see that no detail is too small, that he is able to recognize details that others dont see or don't see as important, and that he is able to convey this to his coaches and get them to see things in the same way and be on the same page. https://www.google.com/amp/s/ca.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/bill-belichicks-old-school-method-developing-coaches-starts-pencils-papers-patience-144917817.html Edited February 2, 2019 by matter2003 2
Aussie Joe Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Reminds me of the attention to detail approach of Rex Ryan when he was Bills Coach.. 2 26 1 1
DC Tom Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Basically Bellichick requires young coaches to do something called "padding". This entails diagramming every play of every game for both aides of the ball including line splits, formations, players on the field, etc and even the movements of all the players on the play. He also requires them to answer what the offense and defense are trying to accomplish on each play as well as detailed observations. This can be grueling with a single game taking up to a few days. To a man all the coaches credit this as "teaching" them immensely about details and what good teams do that bad teams don't etc... Once they finish Bellichick or a senior coach looks at the reports, notes any mistakes or inaccuracies and then gives it back to them. Sometimes they are forced to do the whole game over again. Mistakes are pointed out with impunity, down to the most minute detail...sometimes that they had the wrong jersey number for a player on a given play. Wonder how often other teams use this and even if they did, would it be as effective as Bellichick? Would they spot the mistakes in the reports and send them back for them to see what they did wrong? Would they analyze it the same way? Its said Bellichick sometimes hands it back with up to 75 post it notes all over it pointing out mistakes... Part of what makes Bellichick so great is that he is able to see that no detail is too small, that he is able to recognize details that others dont see or don't see as important, and that he is able to convey this to his coaches and get them to see things in the same way and be on the same page. https://www.google.com/amp/s/ca.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/bill-belichicks-old-school-method-developing-coaches-starts-pencils-papers-patience-144917817.html I think it's clear that one of the reasons the Patriots are able to cheat so frequently and effectively is because of this sort of attention to detail. However, it may also be the reason Pats coaches that move on to other teams tend to not be as successful. Diagramming plays for critique is a great learning tool, but a very narrow learning process. In particular, if it's bottle-necked through Belichick, as you describe it, he's creating a sense of dependency in coaches on himself, and denying other coaches the opportunity to learn how to teach the way he does. 2
BillsShredder83 Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Its got to be atleast somewhat of a commonplace. Rememeber when we first hired Marrone, reading that he used to do this at all his jobs before HC at Syracuse. That he still had all his books from when he was (o line?) coach in N.O.
formerlyofCtown Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 55 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Reminds me of the attention to detail approach of Rex Ryan when he was Bills Coach.. What was on that buffet last night and how many times did Rob go up for more? "Dang I forgot to formulate a game plan. I guess we'll wing and give a speech about how great I am."
Beast Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: I think it's clear that one of the reasons the Patriots are able to cheat so frequently and effectively is because of this sort of attention to detail. However, it may also be the reason Pats coaches that move on to other teams tend to not be as successful. Diagramming plays for critique is a great learning tool, but a very narrow learning process. In particular, if it's bottle-necked through Belichick, as you describe it, he's creating a sense of dependency in coaches on himself, and denying other coaches the opportunity to learn how to teach the way he does. Or, they aren’t allowed to take Tom Brady with them to their next job. 1
Mango Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: Basically Bellichick requires young coaches to do something called "padding". This entails diagramming every play of every game for both aides of the ball including line splits, formations, players on the field, etc and even the movements of all the players on the play. He also requires them to answer what the offense and defense are trying to accomplish on each play as well as detailed observations. This can be grueling with a single game taking up to a few days. To a man all the coaches credit this as "teaching" them immensely about details and what good teams do that bad teams don't etc... Once they finish Bellichick or a senior coach looks at the reports, notes any mistakes or inaccuracies and then gives it back to them. Sometimes they are forced to do the whole game over again. Mistakes are pointed out with impunity, down to the most minute detail...sometimes that they had the wrong jersey number for a player on a given play. Wonder how often other teams use this and even if they did, would it be as effective as Bellichick? Would they spot the mistakes in the reports and send them back for them to see what they did wrong? Would they analyze it the same way? Its said Bellichick sometimes hands it back with up to 75 post it notes all over it pointing out mistakes... Part of what makes Bellichick so great is that he is able to see that no detail is too small, that he is able to recognize details that others dont see or don't see as important, and that he is able to convey this to his coaches and get them to see things in the same way and be on the same page. https://www.google.com/amp/s/ca.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/bill-belichicks-old-school-method-developing-coaches-starts-pencils-papers-patience-144917817.html Honestly, probably pretty much only done by the Pats only. Maybe one or two other teams. Anecdote time. The UW Huskies, mens rowing team, makes their interns and volunteer assistance compile the results for EVERY. SINGLE. HS. RACE. IN. THE. WORLD. down to the detail of every single athlete in every single boat, in every single event. Plus all of their measurables, age, and physiological testing scores. At one point they were the Pats of college rowing. They won every single race at the National Championships a few years in a row. They were untouchable. Still are to a certain extent. They haven’t finished out of the medals in what seems like a decade or more. Most power house teams will win once or twice. A couple years in the medals. Then some rebuild around 6-10 th place. Not Washington, their worst year in recent history is 3rd. They are absolutely the only team in the world that makes their staff do this. 1
Boca BIlls Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 I accidentally read "Paddling Games" Also, how many BB coaches have had successful HC careers so far? 1
Big Turk Posted February 3, 2019 Author Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Boca BIlls said: I accidentally read "Paddling Games" Also, how many BB coaches have had successful HC careers so far? It seems like his methods work exceptionally well but he might be the only one who can succeed with them. Maybe its because at the end of the day it comes down to spotting details nobody else sees and focusing on those. He can tell his coaches exactly what to focus on and what to look for in an upcoming opponent. But when that coach goes out on his own he has to be able to spot these same details on his own without any help from Bellichick and that is where they fail...maybe they look for the same details but fail to umderstand it within the overall context like Bellichick does. Maybe they can't spot the details by themselves. Maybe they can't prepare their coaches well enough so they can prepare the players...there are a whole myriad of factors that could be the reasons why. Bellichick's system is really no system and every system. It requires insane amoints of preparation from exceptionally intelligent players who put relentless amounts of work in. They will do it for Bellichick because he has the results. They might not do it for the assistants taking over because they arent Bellichick and dont have his respect level. Or they might not be able to identify exactly the type of players they need to make it work. Or they might not grimd hard enough, and get the coahces and players to grind hard enough to make it work. It takes some really special abilities to take a play you haven't ran in 2 years and put it in for a gameplan out of the blue and have them execute it well...there arent many teams that can do things like that. Michael Jordan can teach you everything he knows about basketball but at the end of the day he can't play for you...he can't make you see what he sees on the court...Bellichick is special precisely because he sees what nobody else sees, and just because they see what to do doesn't mean they can actually do it. Edited February 3, 2019 by matter2003
Augie Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Reminds me of the attention to detail approach of Rex Ryan when he was Bills Coach.. I think Rex lost the details under the seat of his truck.....you know, the one with the buffalo running backwards...... . Edited February 3, 2019 by Augie 1
MJS Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 Until we know what other coaches do and don't do, there's no way to know if this is unique to Belechick. What I do know is that coaches who leave the system don't seem to have any significant leg up vs other coaches from other systems, from what I can tell. QB's certainly haven't either. 1
cba fan Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 6 hours ago, matter2003 said: Basically Bellichick requires young coaches to do something called "padding". This entails diagramming every play of every game for both aides of the ball including line splits, formations, players on the field, etc and even the movements of all the players on the play. He also requires them to answer what the offense and defense are trying to accomplish on each play as well as detailed observations. This can be grueling with a single game taking up to a few days. To a man all the coaches credit this as "teaching" them immensely about details and what good teams do that bad teams don't etc... Once they finish Bellichick or a senior coach looks at the reports, notes any mistakes or inaccuracies and then gives it back to them. Sometimes they are forced to do the whole game over again. Mistakes are pointed out with impunity, down to the most minute detail...sometimes that they had the wrong jersey number for a player on a given play. Wonder how often other teams use this and even if they did, would it be as effective as Bellichick? Would they spot the mistakes in the reports and send them back for them to see what they did wrong? Would they analyze it the same way? Its said Bellichick sometimes hands it back with up to 75 post it notes all over it pointing out mistakes... Part of what makes Bellichick so great is that he is able to see that no detail is too small, that he is able to recognize details that others dont see or don't see as important, and that he is able to convey this to his coaches and get them to see things in the same way and be on the same page. https://www.google.com/amp/s/ca.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/bill-belichicks-old-school-method-developing-coaches-starts-pencils-papers-patience-144917817.html lol.... BB maybe should rethink this "training method", because it sure as ***** does not work worth two ***** to help any coaches go on to be successful. Most flame and burn as soon as the umbilical is cut. 1
Big Turk Posted February 3, 2019 Author Posted February 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, cba fan said: lol.... BB maybe should rethink this "training method", because it sure as ***** does not work worth two ***** to help any coaches go on to be successful. Most flame and burn as soon as the umbilical is cut. Within his system it helps them win...that's all he is concerned with 1
Andy1 Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 This is all part of the Belichick mystique. Where are the great coaches from his tree? As great as Belichick is, he wouldn’t have the status without Brady. There’s only one TB in the world. I’m not saying the Belichick isn’t a great coach. He is. But Brady is winning the games by making the reads and the plays. 1
Boca BIlls Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 8 hours ago, matter2003 said: It seems like his methods work exceptionally well but he might be the only one who can succeed with them. Maybe its because at the end of the day it comes down to spotting details nobody else sees and focusing on those. He can tell his coaches exactly what to focus on and what to look for in an upcoming opponent. But when that coach goes out on his own he has to be able to spot these same details on his own without any help from Bellichick and that is where they fail...maybe they look for the same details but fail to umderstand it within the overall context like Bellichick does. Maybe they can't spot the details by themselves. Maybe they can't prepare their coaches well enough so they can prepare the players...there are a whole myriad of factors that could be the reasons why. Bellichick's system is really no system and every system. It requires insane amoints of preparation from exceptionally intelligent players who put relentless amounts of work in. They will do it for Bellichick because he has the results. They might not do it for the assistants taking over because they arent Bellichick and dont have his respect level. Or they might not be able to identify exactly the type of players they need to make it work. Or they might not grimd hard enough, and get the coahces and players to grind hard enough to make it work. It takes some really special abilities to take a play you haven't ran in 2 years and put it in for a gameplan out of the blue and have them execute it well...there arent many teams that can do things like that. Michael Jordan can teach you everything he knows about basketball but at the end of the day he can't play for you...he can't make you see what he sees on the court...Bellichick is special precisely because he sees what nobody else sees, and just because they see what to do doesn't mean they can actually do it. It isn't his methods more its Tom Brady. 1
Mr. WEO Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 8 hours ago, cba fan said: lol.... BB maybe should rethink this "training method", because it sure as ***** does not work worth two ***** to help any coaches go on to be successful. Most flame and burn as soon as the umbilical is cut. Belichick's method is not for the purpose of creating great HC's. Obviously it's to make his coaches competent for his team's purposes. It's clearly worked for that... 2
Big Turk Posted February 3, 2019 Author Posted February 3, 2019 40 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: It isn't his methods more its Tom Brady. Really? Because he was able to still win games with Matt Cassell at QB for an entire season. 1
NoSaint Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 15 hours ago, DC Tom said: I think it's clear that one of the reasons the Patriots are able to cheat so frequently and effectively is because of this sort of attention to detail. However, it may also be the reason Pats coaches that move on to other teams tend to not be as successful. Diagramming plays for critique is a great learning tool, but a very narrow learning process. In particular, if it's bottle-necked through Belichick, as you describe it, he's creating a sense of dependency in coaches on himself, and denying other coaches the opportunity to learn how to teach the way he does. Agreed. He also gets to take any interesting insights they give while beating them up. Essentially he gets to absorb all their new ideas and turn them into robots.
Big Turk Posted February 3, 2019 Author Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, DC Tom said: I think it's clear that one of the reasons the Patriots are able to cheat so frequently and effectively is because of this sort of attention to detail. However, it may also be the reason Pats coaches that move on to other teams tend to not be as successful. Diagramming plays for critique is a great learning tool, but a very narrow learning process. In particular, if it's bottle-necked through Belichick, as you describe it, he's creating a sense of dependency in coaches on himself, and denying other coaches the opportunity to learn how to teach the way he does. I'm not sure the coaches agree with you that have done it. They said that is the one single thing that has taught them the most about the game of football and really has increased their depth and breadth of understanding about it. Edited February 3, 2019 by matter2003
outsidethebox Posted February 3, 2019 Posted February 3, 2019 Enough BB ball washing. So tired of hearing how great they are. I could care less about how his coaches are. They all seemed to suck when they go to another team. Like a few posters already said. They can't take TB with them when they leave. How much success would BB have with the QBs we've had the last twenty years? How many superbowls would he have won? My guess would be zero.
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