GoBills808 Posted February 9, 2019 Posted February 9, 2019 58 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: People who have an education on the subject and help people overcome there bad choices in life. Do you realise that rather than admit that maybe there could be a better way of dealing with these types of situations. Youve argued on a subject you have no knowledge of and tried to judge the intentions and character of people you dont even know. Just to let you know. Sometimes I catch myself doing the same things you are doing. 85% of society does it. If we arnt trying to help a person better themselves we probably shouldnt judge em. Just thought Id point a few things out to ya. Let me guess...you have an undergraduate degree in psychology. And that’s being generous.
Thurman#1 Posted February 9, 2019 Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) On 2/1/2019 at 5:54 AM, MJS said: That's a ridiculous statement. People make mistakes so we should feel bad for this kid because he beat the snot out of a defenseless woman laying on the ground? Don't project this kid's messed up actions on the rest of society. Most people do not beat up defenseless girls laying on the ground. We all make mistakes, but some mistakes are far more serious than others. Regardless of telhe mistake and regardless of how common it is, you have to suffer the consequences of your actions. Unfortunately it seems like this kid will still get drafted and make millions of dollars. Talk about a ridiculous statement, here you are joining the crew. Where does anyone say we should feel bad for him? Where does anyone project his actions on anything? Expressing an understanding that everyone makes mistakes isn't projecting Simmons' actions on anyone. More, where is anyone saying someone won't suffer consequences. Simmons has already suffered consequences and will likely continue to do so. He is likely to get drafted though this could absolutely affect where. And I don't call it unfortunate that he'll get drafted at all. What would be unfortunate was if he again hurts someone off the field. There are a lot of sentiments on both sides of this argument worthy of being disagreed with. But if you're going to do so, at least don't pretend they said something they didn't say. EDIT: Good grief, having read the last page, I can see I was wasting my time getting involved in a thread overrun by trolls, threadnappers, red herring tossers, hasty generalizers, those that don't get it, those that aren't interested in what's to be gotten, straw man makers and those who commit the argumentum ad ignorantiam. Edited February 9, 2019 by Thurman#1
formerlyofCtown Posted February 9, 2019 Posted February 9, 2019 8 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Let me guess...you have an undergraduate degree in psychology. And that’s being generous. Some people try to make the world around them better place, unfortunately I dont think youre one of them. Youre to busy pointing at everyone else rather than looking in the mirror. I actually help individuals better themselves. Im past the point of reading books and listening to lectures. Im actually using the knowledge I have and trying to pass it on. Good day Sir or Madam
ComradeKayAdams Posted February 9, 2019 Posted February 9, 2019 11 hours ago, noacls said: Sad that some on this board will defend woman beaters Nah. More like defending the concepts of forgiveness and redemption - concepts on which civilized society depends greatly. Simmons is a sincerely apologetic 1-time offender who committed the offense as a teenager. He's a potential blue-chip talent who is a perfect fit as a 3-tech 4-3 DT. We'd be wise to at least not write him off so quickly on the basis of this one offense. 3
formerlyofCtown Posted February 9, 2019 Posted February 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, MichaelAbdallah said: Nah. More like defending the concepts of forgiveness and redemption - concepts on which civilized society depends greatly. Simmons is a sincerely apologetic 1-time offender who committed the offense as a teenager. He's a potential blue-chip talent who is a perfect fit as a 3-tech 4-3 DT. We'd be wise to at least not write him off so quickly on the basis of this one offense. Without those two things what is the point of a person putting forward the effort to change.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 9, 2019 Posted February 9, 2019 Fact is more people would protest over a guy kneeling for the national anthem than a woman beater. Great American values.
GoBills808 Posted February 9, 2019 Posted February 9, 2019 6 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Some people try to make the world around them better place, unfortunately I dont think youre one of them. Youre to busy pointing at everyone else rather than looking in the mirror. I actually help individuals better themselves. Im past the point of reading books and listening to lectures. Im actually using the knowledge I have and trying to pass it on. Good day Sir or Madam Right. I'm not trying to 'help' or 'make the world a better place' because I'm too busy pointing at everyone else. Never mind the fact that we actually hire directly from the inmate furlough program, which is a resocialization/condition of parole for both violent and nonviolent offenders..ie exactly the kinds of people and situations relevant to the topic at hand. In other words- not only do I have firsthand knowledge of recidivism rates, assault related charges, difficulties finding employment as a convicted felon...I actually AM the person giving second chances, either to meet requirements for the parole board, to qualify for the halfway house, etc etc. Sooo...when I say that losing out on the chance to play in the NFL isn't going to ruin this guy's life, it's because I've hired people who just did 5 years for first time promotion charges because the judge was in a bad mood and his PD didn't show up to court and literally just lost 5 years of their life. I've hired guys convicted of assault and attempted murder who've been incarcerated since they were 16 and lost a hell of a lot more than a shot at playing pro football. So spare me your sanctimony...when I say I believe in second chances and rehabilitation it's because I AM people's second (and often last) chance and rehabilitation. I also know that there are consequences to people's actions, and being held accountable is how things work for 99% of us. Not being able to play in the NFL is so far down the list of consequences people suffer after assaulting someone it's downright laughable. 2
HappyDays Posted February 9, 2019 Posted February 9, 2019 20 hours ago, noacls said: Sad that some on this board will defend woman beaters This is really missing the point. A couple people are defending what he did, I agree that that is terrible. But the majority of us are defending his ability to change. As a society we should reward such commitment to change because lifelong social punishment in the name of "justice" doesn't help anyone. Of course he won't get any more strikes, if he does something that terrible again his NFL career should be over. 2
noacls Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 56 minutes ago, HappyDays said: This is really missing the point. A couple people are defending what he did, I agree that that is terrible. But the majority of us are defending his ability to change. As a society we should reward such commitment to change because lifelong social punishment in the name of "justice" doesn't help anyone. Of course he won't get any more strikes, if he does something that terrible again his NFL career should be over. I understand where you are coming from and that was very well said. However I believe that a women beater is right there with a rapist and child molester. Its vile and disgusting. My work in LE may cloud my thoughts on this. If I offended you I apologize.
GoBills808 Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: This is really missing the point. A couple people are defending what he did, I agree that that is terrible. But the majority of us are defending his ability to change. As a society we should reward such commitment to change because lifelong social punishment in the name of "justice" doesn't help anyone. Of course he won't get any more strikes, if he does something that terrible again his NFL career should be over. Nobody is questioning anyone’s ability to change. If he HADN’T changed we definitely wouldn’t be having this discussion. The question is whether not being able to play professional sports is an appropriate punishment, and my answer is an unequivocal yes. That’s not a ‘lifelong social punishment’, it’s simply an opportunity he wasted. Happens all the time. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 4:08 PM, Rob's House said: I'd like to see the full video from the beginning and know the back story before passing judgment. I read that the girl attacked his sister and he was trying to break it up and the other girl wouldn't stop. My opinion would hinge largely on what started the fight and what this girl did to his sister. He clearly didn't unload on her because she got up a few seconds later. If he was throwing with full force she'd have been out. It's noteworthy that immediately after that he stopped the other girl (his sister?) from continuing to punch her. There's a huge distinction between hitting a girl who's attacking your sister & laying out your wife for mouthing off. And if recent events have taught us anything, it's that context matters. Interesting point. Simmons pled guilty to assault and paid a fine plus restitution to the victim. The complainant in the case also pled guilty to "disturbing the peace fighting" and paid a fine, which would seem to acknowledge some wrongdoing on her part. https://www.si.com/college-football/2016/07/26/mississippi-state-bulldogs-jeffrey-simmons-assault-case-no-contest OTOH, I can't get into the value judgements some like on whether it was "full force" or "holding back" or what-have-you
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 12, 2019 Posted February 12, 2019 ? On 2/9/2019 at 6:15 PM, HappyDays said: This is really missing the point. A couple people are defending what he did, I agree that that is terrible. But the majority of us are defending his ability to change. As a society we should reward such commitment to change because lifelong social punishment in the name of "justice" doesn't help anyone. Of course he won't get any more strikes, if he does something that terrible again his NFL career should be over. Honest question: what do you think the % of guys who hit woman won’t repeat it? Because I think guys who are women beaters tend to repeat the behavior more than say someone who gets caught stealing a laptop (Cam Newton’s crime in college that people used to put him down before the draft).
billsbackto81 Posted February 12, 2019 Posted February 12, 2019 On 2/8/2019 at 9:28 PM, noacls said: Sad that some on this board will defend woman beaters If we can get him in the 4th round and he says I'm sorry? ...... Maybe, everyone deserves a second chance and if you're in the NFL, a fourth and fifth chance.
NewEra Posted February 12, 2019 Posted February 12, 2019 The injury just pushes the talent level up the board. I don’t think there’s a chance that we would’ve drafted him due to his fracas.
John from Riverside Posted February 12, 2019 Posted February 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: If we can get him in the 4th round and he says I'm sorry? ...... Maybe, everyone deserves a second chance and if you're in the NFL, a fourth and fifth chance. With a torn ACL? This sounds like a 6th round pick flyer to me
whatdrought Posted February 12, 2019 Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: ? Honest question: what do you think the % of guys who hit woman won’t repeat it? Because I think guys who are women beaters tend to repeat the behavior more than say someone who gets caught stealing a laptop (Cam Newton’s crime in college that people used to put him down before the draft). I don’t mean to interject into a random conversation, but the problem with what you’re saying is that we don’t, as a society, judge people based on what others have done. Simmons committed a horrible crime and needs to be punished appropriately, but it’s unfair to him (and it’s a break in our systerm of justice and society) to condemn him for what he might do later. If his initial crime is enough to ban him from football, so be it. But it’s not unreasonable for teams to be interested in him if he’s shown that he’s grown past that. All that to say, with the torn ACL I would definitely take him in the 3rd if he falls that far.
billsbackto81 Posted February 12, 2019 Posted February 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: With a torn ACL? This sounds like a 6th round pick flyer to me We're the Bills! We overpay for everyone....
John from Riverside Posted February 12, 2019 Posted February 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: We're the Bills! We overpay for everyone.... LOL not for non process guys
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