Siberian’ stigma: How the Bills recruit free agents to Buffalo and why deep pockets don’t always help

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Basically they want Blue Collar type players that represent the Blue Collar fan base. All I will say is good luck with that. At some point you need the Antonio Brown type players to get you to the Super Bowl. Blue collar teams may have worked in the past. 

You're right, they want what you might call blue collar players.  They have a very clear set  of criteria in mind. 

 

And I get that you may disagree, as do a lot of fans.   My point is that with this GM and coach, the things the article talks about are largely irrelevant.   Players for whom those things are important are not the guys McBeane want.  Maybe that means that the Bills won't succeed, because maybe their view of the world can't produce winners.   All I'm saying is that the Bills currently are at no competitive disadvantage in free agency currently, because the things that create the "disadvantage" are not important to the players that McBeane want.  

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

...

Theyare looking for guys who are maniacal about contributing to a team that wins football games.   So when you read what Jared Cook says in the article, about how the city has to be interesting, what that tells you is that Jared Cook isn't going to be a Buffalo Bill.  For McDermott only two two or three things are important:  (1) Are you the kind of player who is looking for this team environment, (2) Is family the only other thing you care about as deeply as winning in a team environment and (3), if you're religious, is your religion up there with 1 and 2?   That's it.   The minute McDermott understands that local entertainment options is a consideration for a player, that player is off the list.

...

 

That's absurd. You think that McDermott and Beane are requiring their players to be religious? Based on what? Not only is that completely ridiculous to assume, it is also against the law to hire based on religious preferences. Beane and McDermott are not that dumb. And there is NOTHING of substance out there to suggest that they are considering religion when bringing in players.

Edited February 1, 2019 by MJS

[Shaw66]

50 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

That's absurd. You think that McDermott and Beane are requiring their players to be religious? Based on what? Not only is that completely ridiculous to assume, it is also against the law to hire based on religious preferences. Beane and McDermott are not that dumb. And there is NOTHING of substance out there to suggest that they are considering religion when bringing in players.

Read much? I didn't say they are requiring people to be religious.  I'm saying that IF they're religious, McBeane like them to be serious about it.  They've said that. 

[Jrb1979]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You're right, they want what you might call blue collar players.  They have a very clear set  of criteria in mind. 

 

And I get that you may disagree, as do a lot of fans.   My point is that with this GM and coach, the things the article talks about are largely irrelevant.   Players for whom those things are important are not the guys McBeane want.  Maybe that means that the Bills won't succeed, because maybe their view of the world can't produce winners.   All I'm saying is that the Bills currently are at no competitive disadvantage in free agency currently, because the things that create the "disadvantage" are not important to the players that McBeane want.  

A lot of those type of players are the ones that are the most talented usually. When will a Buffalo coach realize the Bills don't have to be a Blue Collar team any more. 

[LSHMEAB]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Read much? I didn't say they are requiring people to be religious.  I'm saying that IF they're religious, McBeane like them to be serious about it.  They've said that. 

I'm sorry. That sounds like a difference without a distinction. "We don't care if you're religious, but we'd love for you to take your religion seriously." Religious litmus tests have zero place in an NFL organization.

[CoudyBills]

On 1/29/2019 at 2:38 PM, 4_kidd_4 said:

Meh, didn’t really want The Rat here anyways.

Hahahha.  The rat family

[CoudyBills]

On 1/29/2019 at 3:25 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

How many SB's wins did Elway lead the Broncos to before Shanahan showed up?  Oh that's right, they were 0-3 with Elway in his prime.

You're point being that the difference was the coach?  That may be true.  Mine would be TD.

Edited February 2, 2019 by CoudyBills

[LSHMEAB]

14 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

You're point being that the difference was the coach?  That may be true.  Mine would be TD.

Well I agree that it was the running game, but that was largely the Shanny/Kubiak scheme. Look how many RB's put up big numbers in that system after TD left.

[CoudyBills]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Well I agree that it was the running game, but that was largely the Shanny/Kubiak scheme. Look how many RB's put up big numbers in that system after TD left.

I don't disagree. I just lean to the player side of the coach player debate. 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Apologies to all who've posted here.  I haven't read any posts; just read the article.    When Logic posts, I have to listen, and he's right on the money, so to speak, with this article.

 

In many respects I think what's said in this article is irrelevant.   True, but irrelevant.  I'll get to that in a minute.   

 

First, Nix's comments are interesting.   We've heard about the taxes before, but the article makes it very clear.  The agents are doing these calculations, and I would guess that there are times in the past when the Bills have had to raise an offer simply to cover the tax differential with the team they're competing with to get a player.  

 

Second, Nix's point about the players making decisions based on things that seem trivial.   I'm sure that happens.  

 

Third, wives definitely can have an impact.

 

Here's why I think the article is largely irrelevant:  McBeane have made it very clear that they only want players who are buying what they are selling.   They are selling a team concept that is ALL IN - truly ALL IN  - with team, competition, hard work, continuous improvement.   They are looking for guys who are maniacal about contributing to a team that wins football games.   So when you read what Jared Cook says in the article, about how the city has to be interesting, what that tells you is that Jared Cook isn't going to be a Buffalo Bill.  For McDermott only two two or three things are important:  (1) Are you the kind of player who is looking for this team environment, (2) Is family the only other thing you care about as deeply as winning in a team environment and (3), if you're religious, is your religion up there with 1 and 2?   That's it.   The minute McDermott understands that local entertainment options is a consideration for a player, that player is off the list.   The only thing that's relevant about the city of Buffalo, so far as McDermott is concerned, is that it is a city whose fans are as passionate as they could possibly be about the team.  The guys McBeane want are guys who view fan passion as a plus.  Those guys don't care how many malls there are, how many night clubs there are, but they are in love with the idea that the fans are over the top. 

 

Look at the Patriots.   I like Boston, but it's kind of an acquired taste.   Young football players who are looking for nightlife can find plenty of activity in Boston, but the whole vibe is intellectual.   It isn't about partying.   Does New England have trouble signing free agents?   I'm sure there are some free agents who say they don't want to live in Boston (which, by the way, has some of the same tax problems New York does).   Yes, for that reason, and because Belichick simply will not pay top dollar for the big names, the Pats have trouble signing free agents.  But guess what - Belichick, like McBeane, doesn't want guys who make their decisions about where to play based on money or night life.   

 

Bottom line is that the pool from which McBeane select free agents doesn't include guys who find Buffalo unattractive, for tax reasons or lifestyle reasons.   The minute those guys say they need more money because the city is a problem, McBeane stop wasting their time on them.  They don't want guys who think differences in the money are important, and they don't want guys who think the city is important.  Don't want them.   

 

Al of that works for McBeane, of course, only if they're winning, because the guys they want only want to commit to a process that gets results.   So it's a bit of chicken or the egg.   That's why, as the article points out, Josh Allen is important.  Allen makes McBeane more credible when they say this team will win.  

 

 

I agree that they want players who love football and therefore aren't as worried about the town they play in.   

 

But you and a lot of other people are slipping off the deep end with your "deep understanding" of EXACTLY what McBeane are thinking.

 

They overpaid for all of their key free agents last offseason.........Lotulelei, Murphy and Vontae Davis........why would they do that if they didn't HAVE to?    Because they were giving them a "Christian" bonus? 

 

There is so much bullish*t from folks on here who are unwilling to be objective about what McBeane are doing.

 

That's not new..........as dumb as it sounds in retrospect,  we had legions of Jauron-zealots and Buddy-lovers etc............the moment a coach loses the fanbase is when the ungrounded fans start to realize that he isn't thinking EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE THINKING he is.    

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm sorry. That sounds like a difference without a distinction. "We don't care if you're religious, but we'd love for you to take your religion seriously." Religious litmus tests have zero place in an NFL organization.

McDermott has talked about this. He values people with strong faith.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying that's what McDermott said.  

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

McDermott has talked about this. He values people with strong faith.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying that's what McDermott said.  

I would say that it's not likely to be a huge problem in terms of acquiring personnel as most NFL players are people of "faith." I will say it's a really stupid attitude to take. I could have sworn that people here said up and down that the whole McBeane/religion thing was overblown. If this is from a direct quote, that's a really bad look.

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I agree that they want players who love football and therefore aren't as worried about the town they play in.   

 

But you and a lot of other people are slipping off the deep end with your "deep understanding" of EXACTLY what McBeane are thinking.

 

They overpaid for all of their key free agents last offseason.........Lotulelei, Murphy and Vontae Davis........why would they do that if they didn't HAVE to?    Because they were giving them a "Christian" bonus? 

 

There is so much bullish*t from folks on here who are unwilling to be objective about what McBeane are doing.

 

That's not new..........as dumb as it sounds in retrospect,  we had legions of Jauron-zealots and Buddy-lovers etc............the moment a coach loses the fanbase is when the ungrounded fans start to realize that he isn't thinking EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE THINKING he is.    

I agree you may be correct and that I may be guilty as charged. 

 

However I think they really valued Murphy and Star for their intensity and leadership. I'd guess they would tell you they got what they paid for.  

 

I think people haven't paid attention when McBeane talk about what they are doing.  Their free agents are character and leadership guys.  They're signing those guys to teach the youngsters.  

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I would say that it's not likely to be a huge problem in terms of acquiring personnel as most NFL players are people of "faith." I will say it's a really stupid attitude to take. I could have sworn that people here said up and down that the whole McBeane/religion thing was overblown. If this is from a direct quote, that's a really bad look.

Pretty sure it was Mcdermott's first season. surprised me when he said it.  But he was serious about it.  

 

I think he thinks strong faith is an indicator of the kind of commitment he wants from players. 

[SF Bills Fan]

On 1/29/2019 at 11:23 AM, Logic said:

https://theathletic.com/790400/2019/01/29/siberian-stigma-how-the-bills-recruit-free-agents-to-buffalo-and-why-deep-pockets-dont-always-help/?redirected=1

Tim Graham just posted the above article to Theathletic.com.

It discusses the difficulties in getting free agents to come to Buffalo. 

It's an all-around good article, but the nugget buried in the middle that was most interesting to me is this: 

"Mike Shanahan has stated he would’ve been the Bills’ coach if his wife hadn’t refused to come."

Maybe everyone else already knew that, but it came as news to me. Interesting "what if" to ponder.

One of the major reasons Mularkey quit was because his wife, from Florida, hated Buffalo.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

I don't disagree. I just lean to the player side of the coach player debate. 

 

 

The discussion was that Elway "made" Shannihan.  The truth is that Elway was in the twilight of his career of SB win futility until Shannihan came a long and created a way to win 2 SBs.