David Culley (former Bills QB coach) gone- to Ravens

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

Thought I'd add a little recent "inside info" to this thread.  Won't reveal my source but the info is trustworthy; otherwise I wouldn't post it.  Here are the salient points:

 

1 -- David Culley was "worthless" with respect to Josh's development (the comment "didn't know what he was doing" was uttered)

2 -- Neither Peterman nor McCarron were helpful

3 -- Once he joined the team Derek Anderson became the de facto QB coach

4 -- The Bills offered Jordan Palmer the QB coach job but Jordan "is enjoying his life the way it is" -- enter Dorsey

 

Take it for what it's worth.  We certainly saw the development in Josh towards season end.

 

Again, I put this squarely on McDermott.  This was his design - drafting a rookie QB without any foundation (no line, no receivers, no QB coach, no veteran QB until Anderson was signed late).  Josh was moderately successful DESPITE the poor planning.  If Rosen had been drafted by the Bills, he'd already be enrolled in law school.

[eball]

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Again, I put this squarely on McDermott.  This was his design - drafting a rookie QB without any foundation (no line, no receivers, no QB coach, no veteran QB until Anderson was signed late).  Josh was moderately successful DESPITE the poor planning.  If Rosen had been drafted by the Bills, he'd already be enrolled in law school.

 

Agreed.  But I think one thing we've seen is that McDermott is not unwilling to make changes.  He gives people the chance to succeed or fail.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

A WR coach was a bad QB coach!? Weird.

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Agreed.  But I think one thing we've seen is that McDermott is not unwilling to make changes.  He gives people the chance to succeed or fail.

 

I don't disagree - his saving grace, so far, is adaptability.  The great coaches have it - it's a necessary survival trait.  It takes a certain amount of coldness, you've got to be willing to axe loyal acolytes if they're not performing.  McD has done this - firing Castillo and stripping Frazier (temporarily) of playcalling duties were ice-cold maneuvers designed to save McD's own hide - which I found refreshing and encouraging.

[eball]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I don't disagree - his saving grace, so far, is adaptability.  The great coaches have it - it's a necessary survival trait.  It takes a certain amount of coldness, you've got to be willing to axe loyal acolytes if they're not performing.  McD has done this - firing Castillo and stripping Frazier (temporarily) of playcalling duties were ice-cold maneuvers designed to save McD's own hide - which I found refreshing and encouraging.

 

Right.  And even though the situation was not perfect for Josh last year, there's no dispute the Bills needed to get their QB.  Thankfully Josh appears to be unwavering in his confidence and didn't let things get him down.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Thought I'd add a little recent "inside info" to this thread.  Won't reveal my source but the info is trustworthy; otherwise I wouldn't post it.  Here are the salient points:

 

1 -- David Culley was "worthless" with respect to Josh's development (the comment "didn't know what he was doing" was uttered)

2 -- Neither Peterman nor McCarron were helpful

3 -- Once he joined the team Derek Anderson became the de facto QB coach

4 -- The Bills offered Jordan Palmer the QB coach job but Jordan "is enjoying his life the way it is" -- enter Dorsey

 

Take it for what it's worth.  We certainly saw the development in Josh towards season end.

 

Makes sense.  Kind of what we all saw.

 

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Again, I put this squarely on McDermott.  This was his design - drafting a rookie QB without any foundation (no line, no receivers, no QB coach, no veteran QB until Anderson was signed late).  Josh was moderately successful DESPITE the poor planning.  If Rosen had been drafted by the Bills, he'd already be enrolled in law school.

 

I agree about the coaching and mentoring part, and I think they wanted Josh to sit the season and learn, hence the reason they didn't (care to) put many resources into the offense, not that they really could given the cap situation.

[gobills1212]

 

1 hour ago, eball said:

Thought I'd add a little recent "inside info" to this thread.  Won't reveal my source but the info is trustworthy; otherwise I wouldn't post it.  Here are the salient points:

 

1 -- David Culley was "worthless" with respect to Josh's development (the comment "didn't know what he was doing" was uttered)

2 -- Neither Peterman nor McCarron were helpful

3 -- Once he joined the team Derek Anderson became the de facto QB coach

4 -- The Bills offered Jordan Palmer the QB coach job but Jordan "is enjoying his life the way it is" -- enter Dorsey

 

Take it for what it's worth.  We certainly saw the development in Josh towards season end.

Now THIS is new thread worthy - thanks for the info.

 

We get people posting new threads about their Bills dream they had last night, meanwhile excellent info such as this gets (correctly, but still..) added to the bowels of a David Culley thread. What a crazy world we live in!!!

[Bangarang]

2 hours ago, eball said:

Thought I'd add a little recent "inside info" to this thread.  Won't reveal my source but the info is trustworthy; otherwise I wouldn't post it.  Here are the salient points:

 

1 -- David Culley was "worthless" with respect to Josh's development (the comment "didn't know what he was doing" was uttered)

2 -- Neither Peterman nor McCarron were helpful

3 -- Once he joined the team Derek Anderson became the de facto QB coach

4 -- The Bills offered Jordan Palmer the QB coach job but Jordan "is enjoying his life the way it is" -- enter Dorsey

 

Take it for what it's worth.  We certainly saw the development in Josh towards season end.

 

A guy with absolutely zero history of developing NFL QBs wasn’t able to develop an NFL QB? Who would’ve known?

 

McD and BB don’t look good with the kind of QB room they put Allen in his rookie year. They managed to correct that a little with the Anderson signing.

[Logic]

The only thing I'll say with respect to the comments about Culley and the lack of foundation around Allen:

It's important to remember the restrictions under which the team was operating due to cap constraints. I recall Beane mentioning that the Bills were in on both Allen Robinson and Taylor Gabriel, but couldn't offer them as much money or clear opportunity for success as the Bears. I also remember the Bills being in on RT Ricky Wagner the year before, but again, couldn't afford what he ultimately wound up receiving. It's only fair to at least keep their salary cap imposed limitations in mind when mentioning the lack of foundation around Allen.

Furthermore, the Bills are not the first to use the "fix defense in year 1, get QB in year 2, build around QB in year 3" model. 

All that being said, I have no explanation or excuse for Culley being the QB coach. That made no sense to me then and still doesn't make sense to me now. Perhaps he'd have been a fine hire if the Bills had a 10 year vet at QB. But for him to be the primary tutor of a ROOKIE?! No bueno. Glad they did the right thing and axed him.

[That's No Moon]

Anderson or Dorsey would be fine in this role.  I don't think Jim Bob Cooter would take that big a step back.  I don't want Jordan Palmer in that role because, as others have stated, if he IS then he can only work with Allen during the specific times permitted.  Since Allen still has a lot of work to do, if I think enough of Palmer that I'd offer him the job, I wouldn't hire him for that specific reason.  I want him to work with Josh year-round.  It seems that Palmer is on board with that plan as well and is happy with his life the way it is.  Honestly, if he gets a rep as a real QB guru he can make a ton of money doing that from multiple clients.  He can make his own schedule, live where he wants to live, work with people whenever he wants not when the league says, etc, etc.  Lots of pluses for all sides to NOT have Jordan Palmer as the coach.  What you want though is someone whose own QB philosophy aligns with Palmer's.  

[eball]

41 minutes ago, Logic said:

The only thing I'll say with respect to the comments about Culley and the lack of foundation around Allen:

It's important to remember the restrictions under which the team was operating due to cap constraints. I recall Beane mentioning that the Bills were in on both Allen Robinson and Taylor Gabriel, but couldn't offer them as much money or clear opportunity for success as the Bears. I also remember the Bills being in on RT Ricky Wagner the year before, but again, couldn't afford what he ultimately wound up receiving. It's only fair to at least keep their salary cap imposed limitations in mind when mentioning the lack of foundation around Allen.

Furthermore, the Bills are not the first to use the "fix defense in year 1, get QB in year 2, build around QB in year 3" model. 

All that being said, I have no explanation or excuse for Culley being the QB coach. That made no sense to me then and still doesn't make sense to me now. Perhaps he'd have been a fine hire if the Bills had a 10 year vet at QB. But for him to be the primary tutor of a ROOKIE?! No bueno. Glad they did the right thing and axed him.

 

I think it's clear in retrospect that Culley has been trying to "build his resume" so he can be considered for a HC position; he had no interest in hitching his wagon to Josh because he knew he'd be moving on.  McD likely trusted hiring Culley because he was a Reid confidant.  Anyway, McD realized the mistake and now the QB room is a complete 180 from a year ago.

 

I really think Josh is going to hit the ground running (and passing) from Day 1.  It may not be Mahomes-like but it's going to be impressive.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I don't disagree - his saving grace, so far, is adaptability.  The great coaches have it - it's a necessary survival trait.  It takes a certain amount of coldness, you've got to be willing to axe loyal acolytes if they're not performing.  McD has done this - firing Castillo and stripping Frazier (temporarily) of playcalling duties were ice-cold maneuvers designed to save McD's own hide - which I found refreshing and encouraging.

 

 

eball is showing some adaptability too............remember he was the guy that went OFF on the poster with unnamed sources that told us about Cordy Glenn getting a kidney removed when we were all in the dark about what the mystery issue with Glenn was?    Now eebs is dealing conjecture with his own unnamed source.    So proud that he is understanding this is a message board and not the AP wire.   

[WideNine]

On 2/9/2019 at 11:19 AM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...maybe he'll convince Harbaugh to sign UFA Benjabum as a solid addition to his corp............

 

I thought that too, when he talked about WRs need to catch the ball first, but WRs also have to be football players - that means sometimes you knock a ball away from a defender, or tackle someone on a turnover, or block.

 

Remembering that KB body language if there was a contested pass...back off let the defenders have a shot at it, avoid any contact, then nonchalantly stroll back to the huddle.

 

 

 

[Logic]

22 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I think it's clear in retrospect that Culley has been trying to "build his resume" so he can be considered for a HC position; he had no interest in hitching his wagon to Josh because he knew he'd be moving on.  McD likely trusted hiring Culley because he was a Reid confidant.  Anyway, McD realized the mistake and now the QB room is a complete 180 from a year ago.

 

I really think Josh is going to hit the ground running (and passing) from Day 1.  It may not be Mahomes-like but it's going to be impressive.

I tend to agree. If I'm not mistaken, the Bills were averaging 24 points a game once Josh came back from injury. And that was with a bad o-line and a WR corps lacking in talent. Just with the additions we've already made in free agency (not even factoring in what gets added via the draft), and with Allen about to get a full offseason and training camp of starter reps, I expect a much improved offense in 2019. 

My entire adult life as a Bills fan has been spent without a franchise QB. I was too young to really remember watching Jim Kelly. As such, I literally don't know what it feels like to know that my team has a franchise QB. If Allen lights it up in 2019 and proves that he's "the guy", well....I just won't even know how to feel. What is it even like being a fan of a team with a franchise QB? Uncharted territory for me.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Logic

[eball]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

My entire adult life as a Bills fan has been spent without a franchise QB. I was too young to really remember watching Jim Kelly. As such, I literally don't know what it feels like to know that my team has a franchise QB. If Allen lights it up in 2019 and proves that he's "the guy", well....I just won't even know how to feel. What is it even like being a fan of a team with a franchise QB? Uncharted territory for me.

 

It will kind of be like now.  You'll still have fans clamoring for the backup and nitpicking the INT in a 4 TD game. 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I thought that too, when he talked about WRs need to catch the ball first, but WRs also have to be football players - that means sometimes you knock a ball away from a defender, or tackle someone on a turnover, or block.

 

Remembering that KB body language if there was a contested pass...back off let the defenders have a shot at it, avoid any contact, then nonchalantly stroll back to the huddle.

 

 

 

 

 

...LOL...I was actually being sarcastic about Benjabum, but failed.....

[Bangarang]

13 minutes ago, Logic said:

I tend to agree. If I'm not mistaken, the Bills were averaging 24 points a game once Josh came back from injury. And that was with a bad o-line and a WR corps lacking in talent. Just with the additions we've already made in free agency (not even factoring in what gets added via the draft), and with Allen about to get a full offseason and training camp of starter reps, I expect a much improved offense in 2019. 

My entire adult life as a Bills fan has been spent without a franchise QB. I was too young to really remember watching Jim Kelly. As such, I literally don't know what it feels like to know that my team has a franchise QB. If Allen lights it up in 2019 and proves that he's "the guy", well....I just won't even know how to feel. What is it even like being a fan of a team with a franchise QB? Uncharted territory for me.

 

Since Allen returned, we averaged 18 points per game until the final game against Miami where we put up 42 and brought our scoring average to 22 points per game.

[Logic]

Just now, Bangarang said:

 

Since Allen returned, we averaged 18 points per game until the final game against Miami where we put up 42 and brought our scoring average to 22 points per game.

Copy that. Obviously not good enough yet, but it does represent an improvement over the 10 points per game that they were scoring prior to Allen's return from injury.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Logic said:

Copy that. Obviously not good enough yet, but it does represent an improvement over the 10 points per game that they were scoring prior to Allen's return from injury.

 

 

....with a year under his belt and what is shaping up to be a far superior supporting cast (BEFORE 10 picks), he'll continue to improve IMO....stay tuned....

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Since Allen returned, we averaged 18 points per game until the final game against Miami where we put up 42 and brought our scoring average to 22 points per game.

 

 

The schedule also got considerably easier when he returned.

 

In the key matchup against a Patriots team that had been struggling........... they were shut down and nearly shut out.

 

That was more consistent with the performance in games in the early portion of their schedule...........good teams could have their way with the Bills offense..... which is why it was historically bad for most of the year.

 

Improved OL and running game goes a long way toward being better on a consistent basis.........and adding Beasley and Brown helps too but you can't expect Allen to be a guy to turn "solid" WR's into a top passing game at this stage of his career.

 

They really need a guy to demand constant double teams in the passing game........hopefully that's Foster but his history is far too murky to count on that..........they badly need another big time playmaking/matchup-winning option to help make it work against better defenses while Allen is learning how to play the position.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by BADOLBILZ