Is DT Gerald McCoy done in Tampa?

[Logic]

10 hours ago, Turk71 said:

wait a minute. Regardless of how anyone judges Beane, giving Coleman 3 million dollars guaranteed when the Bills had very little cap money left and then letting him go a week or two later before preseason even started was just a really stupid move. He has made good moves but to try and spin that one as anything but a big mistake is just wrong. 

I disagree. 

A poor result does not equal a bad move. With 20/20 hindsight, you can sit there and say "it didn't work out, so it was a terrible move". In my opinion, though, a player of Coleman's talent -- particularly given how the Bills' WR corps was lacking in talent at speed at the time -- was worth the gamble of a future 7th round pick. The fact that the move didn't work out does not mean that it was a risk not worth taking. I want my general manager doing everything he can to improve the team at all times -- with the full understanding that not every move he makes is going to work out. Not a single GM in the NFL has ever had a 100% success rate with personnel moves. Not one. 

And did Coleman's signing hurt the Bills long term? No, not at all. He has no salary cap implications on the team in 2019. It was a low-risk move that didn't pay off. That doesn't mean it was a bad swing to take, in my opinion.

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Do you people Research anything?  He is paid market value for what he does.

Who views him as grossly overpaid.  

All I see is a bunch of media morans and washed up players.  Who just go on there opinion and not data.  Any market is dictated by the supply and in the case of the workforce you add in the prevailing wage.

Star is not a passrusher and isnt suppose to be.  Dontari Poe is in a similar D and look at the stats and Salary.

 

 

 

 

In your research where you compare him to Dontari Poe did you happen to notice that Lotulelei got $25M in guarantees and Poe got $11M??

 

That's not the same.     Poe has a short term contract that encourages him to produce or else.........Star got basically 50% of a 5 year deal guaranteed(and a higher AAV to boot).

 

I'm aware that expectations for Star actually making any plays were low.........but look at his career stats......he was always good for 5-6 collisions with the QB.........last year,  NONE.

 

That's a bit of a red-flag, champ.   It's not like the Bills run defense was good........it wasn't......it was merely average.

 

And btw........ both Poe and Lotulelei sucked and were poor values.

 

But of course, professor......I await the results of your research.(riiiiiiiiight)

[John from Riverside]

On 1/31/2019 at 1:07 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I tend to think they'd have had a huge dropoff even with Star.    Lotta' moving parts in that Carolina collapse last season and having the increasingly diminished version of Star Lotulelei that the Bills got wasn't going to change any of that.

 

Lotulelei was an improvement over the practice squad rotation that they were using after they traded Dareus in 2017.    That period skewed their seasonal stats greatly.   But the 2018 Bills run defense still wasn't a lot better.    Only improved by a MEAGER .1 ypc and opponents liked the run matchup enough that the Bills were one of the more run-on teams in the NFL(about 4 more rushers per game than Carolina saw).   

 

I could go on.......trust me.........but it's not worth it.........we are talking about two middling run defenses and a greatly overpaid run stuffing DT.

While I would love for Horrible Harry to step in there and fill Meatball's loss.....we should be looking for a decent DT for that position.....

Really hope we dont lose the guy we got when Miami released him.

[formerlyofCtown]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

 

In your research where you compare him to Dontari Poe did you happen to notice that Lotulelei got $25M in guarantees and Poe got $11M??

 

That's not the same.     Poe has a short term contract that encourages him to produce or else.........Star got basically 50% of a 5 year deal guaranteed(and a higher AAV to boot).

 

I'm aware that expectations for Star actually making any plays were low.........but look at his career stats......he was always good for 5-6 collisions with the QB.........last year,  NONE.

 

That's a bit of a red-flag, champ.   It's not like the Bills run defense was good........it wasn't......it was merely average.

 

And btw........ both Poe and Lotulelei sucked and were poor values.

 

But of course, professor......I await the results of your research.(riiiiiiiiight)

10 mil a year is 20 mil a year.  According to what your saying you wouldnt like it if he got a 5 year 25 mil contract and they other guy got 30 but not gautanteed you would prefer the 30.  Gauranteed only bothers me with old or injury prone players.  Both will finish the contract.  No you just dont get that they occupy other players so that others can get the tackles.  This isnt 1990 anymore.  The type of DT you want gets twice that.  Just because you dont like it doesnt mean it isnt fair market value.  It is abdolutely fair market value and he is very good at what is expected.  If we get our big nickel safety we will have a very good D.

As to his stats, he had better DTs around him.  A guy thats making 16 mil per year.

[RocCityRoller]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:16 AM, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

He is likely to be a cap casualty.  He is still a very good player. Bean won't be interested, if he is looking for big money and a longer term contract.  Realistically, Bean appears to be constructing the team to make a run in 2020 and 2021.  McCoy's best years will be behind him by that time.  As much as I like McCoy as a player, I don't expect it to happen.

This ^

 

We don't need every other team's 30+ yr old guy taking up big cap space when the run is 2020 on.

 

Keep building the core through the draft or through trades.

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

While I would love for Horrible Harry to step in there and fill Meatball's loss.....we should be looking for a decent DT for that position.....

Really hope we dont lose the guy we got when Miami released him.

 

Jordan Phillips, I like this guy. 26 yrs old, has an edge and a bit of nasty.

Edited February 2, 2019 by RocCityRoller

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

This ^

 

We don't need every other team's 30+ yr old guy taking up big cap space when the run is 2020 on.

 

Keep building the core through the draft or through trades.

 

Why can’t the “run” start in 2019?

[RocCityRoller]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

 

Why can’t the “run” start in 2019?

 

IMO the team is half baked, too many holes, even on defense. It's like rushing a dough when it still has to rise. Patience grasshopper.

 

Making a few big money 'big splashes' this year on ageing guys will put the team in a cap mess in 2-4 yrs when Allen is hitting his stride.

The guys OBD drafted last year, this year and next are the core on rookie contracts this team will be built on when Allen is ready.

I feel better because guys like Jones/Foster/Edmunds and Wallace showed improvement this past season.

 

If OBD can find a FA younger player or two in positions of need that is emerging or has been in the wrong scheme, then fine. But it seems like a lot

of folks here would rather get some 30+ guys to fills holes now, not looking ahead 2-4 years. Draft, see where the picks failed (some will succeed) and

then fill holes.

 

If it were me I'd be going BPA all draft and getting OL/DL and WR this year while being open to trades down instead of a reaching in the draft.

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

IMO the team is half baked, too many holes, even on defense. It's like rushing a dough when it still has to rise. Patience grasshopper.

 

Making a few big money 'big splashes' this year on ageing guys will put the team in a cap mess in 2-4 yrs when Allen is hitting his stride.

The guys OBD drafted last year, this year and next are the core on rookie contracts this team will be built on when Allen is ready.

I feel better because guys like Jones/Foster/Edmunds and Wallace showed improvement this past season.

 

If OBD can find a FA younger player or two in positions of need that is emerging or has been in the wrong scheme, then fine. But it seems like a lot

of folks here would rather get some 30+ guys to fills holes now, not looking ahead 2-4 years. Draft, see where the picks failed (some will succeed) and

then fill holes.

 

If it were me I'd be going BPA all draft and getting OL/DL and WR this year while being open to trades down instead of a reaching in the draft.

 

I’m not sure what exactly is meant by making a “run” but if it’s making the playoffs and winning a game then I think this needs to be the target in 2019.. of course whether they achieve it is another matter, but they shouldn’t be writing off 2019 already..

 

They have plenty of holes as you have said, so why not use Gerald McCoy to fill one of them.. even if it’s just short term?

 

As has been pointed out in this thread, his contract makes him complete cuttable at any time with no guaranteed money..

 

We are all aware that there is plenty of spare money available the next two years before they have to start paying their rookies..

 

McCoy is still a good player, and might have two more good years left in him... if he doesn’t then cut him at the end of 2019..

 

There is no need to think he is going to be an old over the hill hasbeen taking up cap space  in 2021..if he isn’t up to it then move on..

 

Just saying it’s an option is all..

 

 

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

IMO the team is half baked, too many holes, even on defense. It's like rushing a dough when it still has to rise. Patience grasshopper.

 

Making a few big money 'big splashes' this year on ageing guys will put the team in a cap mess in 2-4 yrs when Allen is hitting his stride.

The guys OBD drafted last year, this year and next are the core on rookie contracts this team will be built on when Allen is ready.

I feel better because guys like Jones/Foster/Edmunds and Wallace showed improvement this past season.

 

If OBD can find a FA younger player or two in positions of need that is emerging or has been in the wrong scheme, then fine. But it seems like a lot

of folks here would rather get some 30+ guys to fills holes now, not looking ahead 2-4 years. Draft, see where the picks failed (some will succeed) and

then fill holes.

 

If it were me I'd be going BPA all draft and getting OL/DL and WR this year while being open to trades down instead of a reaching in the draft.

This does reflect what McBeanes are thinking as well. this will not be a year for FA high diving.
they will spend what they have to after the draft.

 But geesh, lets focus on the Offense if looking for immediate impact , or bang.

50 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

I’m not sure what exactly is meant by making a “run” but if it’s making the playoffs and winning a game then I think this needs to be the target in 2019.. of course whether they achieve it is another matter, but they shouldn’t be writing off 2019 already..

 

They have plenty of holes as you have said, so why not use Gerald McCoy to fill one of them.. even if it’s just short term?

 

As has been pointed out in this thread, his contract makes him complete cuttable at any time with no guaranteed money..

 

We are all aware that there is plenty of spare money available the next two years before they have to start paying their rookies..

 

McCoy is still a good player, and might have two more good years left in him... if he doesn’t then cut him at the end of 2019..

 

There is no need to think he is going to be an old over the hill hasbeen taking up cap space  in 2021..if he isn’t up to it then move on..

 

Just saying it’s an option is all..

 

 

Its fair.
 

what does McD see though ?

 : )

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

10 mil a year is 20 mil a year.  According to what your saying you wouldnt like it if he got a 5 year 25 mil contract and they other guy got 30 but not gautanteed you would prefer the 30.  Gauranteed only bothers me with old or injury prone players.  Both will finish the contract.  No you just dont get that they occupy other players so that others can get the tackles.  This isnt 1990 anymore.  The type of DT you want gets twice that.  Just because you dont like it doesnt mean it isnt fair market value.  It is abdolutely fair market value and he is very good at what is expected.  If we get our big nickel safety we will have a very good D.

As to his stats, he had better DTs around him.  A guy thats making 16 mil per year.

 

The moment you realize you are arguing with someone who has no clue about the topic.?

 

Hey Teeflebees.........you gotta' a ? for that hot take!

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

58 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

I’m not sure what exactly is meant by making a “run” but if it’s making the playoffs and winning a game then I think this needs to be the target in 2019.. of course whether they achieve it is another matter, but they shouldn’t be writing off 2019 already..

 

They have plenty of holes as you have said, so why not use Gerald McCoy to fill one of them.. even if it’s just short term?

 

As has been pointed out in this thread, his contract makes him complete cuttable at any time with no guaranteed money..

 

We are all aware that there is plenty of spare money available the next two years before they have to start paying their rookies..

 

McCoy is still a good player, and might have two more good years left in him... if he doesn’t then cut him at the end of 2019..

 

There is no need to think he is going to be an old over the hill hasbeen taking up cap space  in 2021..if he isn’t up to it then move on..

 

Just saying it’s an option is all..

 

 

Hey Aussie Joe. Nice to have a civil discussion and difference of opinion. Are you from Australia or have links to it?

 

To be fair a guy like Gerald McCoy is not going to sign for peanuts. This is probably his last chance at a big contract. I could see him being a great fit for a team like Pittsburgh, KC or Indy. Teams that can win it all next year by adding a player or two on the defense. Our beloved Bills are a couple of years away.

 

I'm a fan of rolling over free cap and bringing in 2-3 rookie classes with a new GM and see what you have before spending high money on 30+ guys who are short term solutions.

Beane has only had one draft to let his work out.

 

I'd rather have guys approaching 30 in 2-3 yrs than 30-32 now.

 

IMO its a better way to build a team if OBD thinks they have the QB in place.

 

We will have to see what OBD thinks.

 

I've been a fan of Gerald McCoy, terrific DT. I just don't think he's the right guy right now for Buffalo.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

On 1/30/2019 at 9:35 PM, Logic said:

I'll say it again: Imagine rating Star Lotulelei on the basis of his sacks and QB hits. 

It's like rating a WR on the amount of pancake blocks he gets. 

Exactly, asked coaches, players and look at the 22. The guy is all about doing what’s asked of him and that’s take on double teams. Even in the pass rush, he ties up guys so others can go at them.

Star is a good and very underrated player. He’s a little over paid but good run stuffing DTs get 8 to 10 mil a year. The ones who get after the qb get paid in the 12 to 15 range, which star is not 

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Hey Aussie Joe. Nice to have a civil discussion and difference of opinion. Are you from Australia or have links to it?

 

To be fair a guy like Gerald McCoy is not going to sign for peanuts. This is probably his last chance at a big contract. I could see him being a great fit for a team like Pittsburgh, KC or Indy. Teams that can win it all next year by adding a player or two on the defense. Our beloved Bills are a couple of years away.

 

I'm a fan of rolling over free cap and bringing in 2-3 rookie classes with a new GM and see what you have before spending high money on 30+ guys who are short term solutions.

Beane has only had one draft to let his work out.

 

I'd rather have guys approaching 30 in 2-3 yrs than 30-32 now.

 

IMO its a better way to build a team if OBD thinks they have the QB in place.

 

We will have to see what OBD thinks.

 

I've been a fan of Gerald McCoy, terrific DT. I just don't think he's the right guy right now for Buffalo.

 

Hi.. yes I am from Aust but have been a Bills fan for a very long time ..about 35 years.. the past few years I have travelled to the US to take in a few Bills games..hope to continue to do this each year for as long as I am financially able to..

 

Just so you understand what I am saying with McCoy.. he has three years left on his contract with Tampa Bay which could be an option to trade for..

 

The terms of his contract are that he can be cut after each year with no longer term cap implications.. ( ie dead cap)..The catch is that he is due to earn $13m per year so he is not cheap..

 

I wouldn’t be interested in signing him to a new deal to be honest..

 

I just have a gut feeling that he is on Beane’s radar to fill Kyle’s hole..and Frazier used to coach him in TB a couple of years ago so he will be familiar with him..

 

He is 31 so it will be a bit of a risk.. just think if they trade for his contract they can move on with a minimum of penalty if it doesn’t work out..

 

Would probably cost a 5th rounder to trade for him as a guesstimate.

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

8 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Hi.. yes I am from Aust but have been a Bills fan for a very long time ..about 35 years.. the past few years I have travelled to the US to take in a few Bills games..hope to continue to do this each year for as long as I am financially able to..

 

Just so you understand what I am saying with McCoy.. he has three years left on his contract with Tampa Bay which could be an option to trade for..

 

The terms of his contract are that he can be cut after each year with no longer term cap implications.. ( ie dead cap)..The catch is that he is due to earn $13m per year so he is not cheap..

 

I wouldn’t be interested in signing him to a new deal to be honest..

 

I just have a gut feeling that he is on Beane’s radar to fill Kyle’s hole..and Frazier used to coach him in TB a couple of years ago so he will be familiar with him..

 

He is 31 so it will be a bit of a risk.. just think if they trade for his contract they can move on with a minimum of penalty if it doesn’t work out..

 

Would probably cost a 5th rounder to trade for him as a guesstimate.

 

 

How in the world does one from the continent of Australia CHOOSE to be a Bills fan? You're a glutton for punishment, aren't you?

[Aussie Joe]

15 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

How in the world does one from the continent of Australia CHOOSE to be a Bills fan? You're a glutton for punishment, aren't you?

 

I was just a kid at the time and  the first game of NFL I ever watched on TV..1981 AFC Wildcard playoff game Bills v Jets..Bills won..

 

Something about the game appealed to me immensely and have followed both the Bills and the game as a whole as closely as I could.. 

 

In those pre internet and pay TV 24 hr sports channels years, that meant buying the local paper in Aust on the Tuesday, and turning to the fine print of the Sports section to see the latest results from the previous weekend to see if the Bills had won..

 

Glad times have changed now..

 

Have stuck with the Bills through some good but mostly the bad years ever since.. I’m too old and set in my ways now to change teams..

 

In sure they will win it one year right... hopefully soon as none of us are getting any younger..

 

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Aussie Joe

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

I was just a kid at the time and  the first game of NFL I ever watched on TV..1981 AFC Wildcard playoff game Bills v Jets..Bills won..

 

Something about the game appealed to me immensely and have followed both the Bills and the game as a whole as closely as I could.. 

 

In those pre internet and pay TV 24 hr sports channels years, that meant buying the local paper in Aust on the Tuesday, and turning to the fine print of the Sports section to see the latest results from the previous weekend to see if the Bills had won..

 

Glad times have changed now..

 

Have stuck with the Bills through some good but mostly the bad years ever since.. I’m too old and set in my ways now to change teams..

 

In sure they will win it one year right... hopefully soon as none of us are getting any younger..

 

 

 

My how times have changed! Even in the states back then the only thing I could get was a paragraph on each team in the USA Today sports section once a week. Now? Holy cow! The information available is almost unlimited. You can see a game in so many ways, get the interviews, all-22, etc. Very cool that the world has gotten so much smaller and it’s easier for you (and all of us!) to follow along. 

[Aussie Joe]

7 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

My how times have changed! Even in the states back then the only thing I could get was a paragraph on each team in the USA Today sports section once a week. Now? Holy cow! The information available is almost unlimited. You can see a game in so many ways, get the interviews, all-22, etc. Very cool that the world has gotten so much smaller and it’s easier for you (and all of us!) to follow along. 

 

Yes.. I agree it’s unbelievable how times have changed.. I can now probably follow the Bills now just as closely as you guys via the various available media..

 

I remember one year during the SuperBowl years when the AFC Championship game was not being shown live on Aust TV so I actually rang up a Sydney radio station, asked to be put through to their sports section and got them to check their news/wire sources to see if the Bills had won the game.. 

 

 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Yes.. I agree it’s unbelievable how times have changed.. I can now probably follow the Bills now just as closely as you guys via the various available media..

 

I remember one year during the SuperBowl years when the AFC Championship game was not being shown live on Aust TV so I actually rang up a Sydney radio station, asked to be put through to their sports section and got them to check their news/wire sources to see if the Bills had won the game.. 

 

 

 

Back then ESPN could rule the sports world easily because they were the only network focused solely on sports. The world changed faster than they did. Competition makes everybody up their game, or die away. As a kid I had three channels. Now I’m almost embarrassed by how many options we have. 

[3rdand12]

15 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Hey Aussie Joe. Nice to have a civil discussion and difference of opinion. Are you from Australia or have links to it?

 

To be fair a guy like Gerald McCoy is not going to sign for peanuts. This is probably his last chance at a big contract. I could see him being a great fit for a team like Pittsburgh, KC or Indy. Teams that can win it all next year by adding a player or two on the defense. Our beloved Bills are a couple of years away.

 

I'm a fan of rolling over free cap and bringing in 2-3 rookie classes with a new GM and see what you have before spending high money on 30+ guys who are short term solutions.

Beane has only had one draft to let his work out.

 

I'd rather have guys approaching 30 in 2-3 yrs than 30-32 now.

 

IMO its a better way to build a team if OBD thinks they have the QB in place.

 

We will have to see what OBD thinks.

 

I've been a fan of Gerald McCoy, terrific DT. I just don't think he's the right guy right now for Buffalo.

Good post all around

[Tipster19]

There’s currently 66 players signed by Buffalo. If the Bills use all 10 draft picks on players then that leaves 14 more spots on the roster to be filled with players. McCoy isn’t a lock to stay on Tampa’s roster. Here’s a player I would love to have and would help alleviate another position group before the draft.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/26/bruce-arians-keeps-using-the-word-if-regarding-gerald-mccoy/