Was Mark Kelso the Best FS in Bills History?

[Colorado Mike]

On 1/25/2019 at 7:22 AM, jwhit34 said:

Kelso's no better than 4th, I'd put George Saimes, Tony Greene and Kurt Schulz ahead of him. Freeman and Henry Jones were strong safeties. It actually has been a pretty strong position throughout team history, Kelso was good, J. Byrd was very good for a couple of years, Corey Graham and Troy Vincent were decent, Bill Simpson was good for a couple years (big INT in playoffs).

Was looking to see if someone would mention Bill Simpson.  Not saying he was the very best but he was damn good, and underrated.  

[Chandler#81]

17 minutes ago, Colorado Mike said:

Was looking to see if someone would mention Bill Simpson.  Not saying he was the very best but he was damn good, and underrated.  

He wasn’t here very long, but yes, he was very good.

24 minutes ago, Virgil said:

What the actual ***** is this thread?

 

You should get banned for this kind of thread

 

I’ve got my eye on him..

[Greybeard]

On 1/25/2019 at 2:05 AM, Spiderweb said:

???? That "60's" safety, George Saimes was indeed the complete package. A converted RB. Great FS. We have had a number of good ones, even Tony Greene comes to mind, but Saimes was the best. Shame is, far too many here never saw him play.

 

           Besides playing the position well, he was one of the best tacklers on those teams.   And that is saying a lot.

[LSHMEAB]

I think the secondary was relatively weak during the SB run. The pass rush from the likes of Smith/Bennett/Hansen made their job quite a bit easier. Unfortunately, they also weren't particularly big or strong at the point of attack so they got steamrolled by NFC teams like Dallas and Washington.

 

Odomes flamed out when he left. Jackson? Meh. Henry Jones was probably the only really good back end player of that era. Kelso? Meh.

[Misterbluesky]

15 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

 

No, because that never happened. 

It happened but was brought back because of a flag.

[vorpma]

On 1/25/2019 at 12:24 AM, eSJayDee said:

Steve Freeman maybe?  I think he was free rather than strong.

Eddie Abramoski called Freeman the toughest SOB he has ever known in his years as a Bills trainer!

22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I wondered how deep into the thread I'd have to go to find Saimes.  

 

Saimes was a true free safety.  Strong got the tight end, free was free.  Saimes had GREAT instincts and was a fabulous tackler. Also a dangerous return man. 

 

He was probably the greatest the Bills ever had. 

I'd forgotten about Greene.  He and Saimes 1 and 2.   They were different eras.  Saimes was more dominant, league-wide, in his era.  

Saimes often had the task of covering the Patriots RB Larry Garron coming out of the backfield, a big fast back with great hands. If you ever see old AFL footage of the Patriots Garron is always in motion.

[freddyjj]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I think the secondary was relatively weak during the SB run. The pass rush from the likes of Smith/Bennett/Hansen made their job quite a bit easier. Unfortunately, they also weren't particularly big or strong at the point of attack so they got steamrolled by NFC teams like Dallas and Washington.

 

Odomes flamed out when he left. Jackson? Meh. Henry Jones was probably the only really good back end player of that era. Kelso? Meh.

Odomes was Pro Bowler in '92 and '93 seasons for Bills. Signed to a big FA deal by Seattle and got hurt and never played a down for them in 2 years.  He tried to come back in 96 with ATL and couldn't play, starting in 4/7 games played before retiring at end of season.

 

From 1988-1990 the Bills SS Leonard Smith was a hard-hitting SS and really brought it every play.    After 1990 season the Bills lacked physicality in the Secondary until 1994 when Matt Darby became the starting FS.  It got a little tougher when Kurt Schultz became FS in 1995.

 

IIRC in Giants SB, Kelso was done for year and John Hagy started at FS.  Likewise at CB, JD Williams was out so Kirby Jackson played instead.  Odomes played CB and Leonard Smith was SS.  Kelso played in Redskins SB.  Leonard Smith had a knee infection and missed SB XXVI and Dwight Drane played instead.  Smith never returned to NFL.

For 1992 SB Smith was out replaced at SS by Henry Jones and Kelso played FS.  JD Williams and Kirby Jackson split time at one CB position with Odomes at the other.

By end of 1993 season, Odomes played last year as a Bill and Mickey Washington and JD Williams platooned at one CB position while Kelso and Jones were FS/SS respectively.

Edited January 26, 2019 by freddyjj

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Odomes was Pro Bowler in '92 and '93 seasons for Bills. Signed to a big FA deal by SAeatlle and got hurt and never played a down for them in 2 years.  He tried to come back in 96 with ATL and couldn't play, starting in 4/7 games played before retiring at end of season.

 

From 1988-1990 the Bills SS Leonard Smith was a hard-hitting SS and really brought it every play.    After 1990 season the Bills lacked physicality in the Secondary until 1994 when Matt Darby became the starting FS.  It got a little tougher when Kurt Schultz became FS in 1995.

 

IIRC in Giants SB, Kelso was done for year and John Hagy started at FS.  Likewise at CB, JD Williams was out so Kirby Jackson played instead.  Odomes played CB and Leonard Smith was SS.  Kelso played in Redskins SB.  Leonard Smith had a knee infection and missed SB XXVI and Dwight Drane played instead.  Smith never returned to NFL.

For 1992 SB Smith was out replaced at SS by Henry Jones and Kelso played FS.  JD Williams and Kirby Jackson split time at one CB position with Odomes at the other.

By end of 1993 season, Odomes played last year as a Bill and Mickey Washington and JD Williams platooned at one CB position while Kelso and Jones were FS/SS respectively.

Appreciate the knowledge! I thought Matt Stevens was gonna be the next big thing. Now that guy had a great head of hair.

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, vorpma said:

Eddie Abramoski called Freeman the toughest SOB he has ever known in his years as a Bills trainer!

Saimes often had the task of covering the Patriots RB Larry Garron coming out of the backfield, a big fast back with great hands. If you ever see old AFL footage of the Patriots Garron is always in motion.

Man!  How you can you remember that stuff?   Larry Garron is a name and a player I probably have thought about in past 30 years.  

 

Saimes's open field tackles are legendary.  

[freddyjj]

32 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Agreed.

Butch is from my hometown, and is the reason that I became a Bill's fan. He had 40 picks for the Bills, which I think might still be a team record.

That is the record.  Tony Greene's 37 picks are 2nd. 

[Cripple Creek]

On 1/25/2019 at 12:27 AM, PUNT750 said:

He played 99 games for the Bills including the 4 year Super Bowl Run.  From 1987 through 1989 he had 19 interceptions and a total of 30 in his 8 year career with the Bills.  He never made a Pro-Bowl Team, had no Super-Bowl interceptions and was ridiculed for wearing his "pro-cap", bubble  helmet. 

 

He played the Free Safety position conservatively as Marv and Defensive Co-Coordinator swizzle stick Walt Corey designed it.

I don't think so Mrs. Kelso.

[ehfeuh57]

I was real young but remember Leonard Smith was good

[ExWNYer]

On 1/25/2019 at 1:46 PM, Spiderweb said:

Tony Greene was an undersized guy who got the most of his abilities. He was also more of a centerfielder, as has already been said. With that, he was a very good FS for Buffalo, but lacked Saimes toughness to me. It's good to see everyone talking about some very good to great Bills we've had the pleasure to watch over the years.

 

I loved Tony Greene. To this day, #43 is still one of my favorite Bills of all time.

 

On 1/25/2019 at 3:47 PM, Misterbluesky said:

Do you remember when Greene took a pick 109 yards for a TD on a Saturday afternoon in Miami?  

 

On 1/25/2019 at 10:12 PM, WotAGuy said:

 

No, because that never happened. 

 

10 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

It happened but was brought back because of a flag.

 

It happened in 1974 and was actually 105 yards...would've stood as the longest INT return in team history had it not been called back on a bogus penalty. I remember watching that game on TV as a kid in Grand Island. Still one of my most vivid Bills memories as a youngster. Seeing Tony weave his way in and out of traffic on his way to the end zone was a thing of beauty. I was so upset when they called back that pick six. It was the difference in a game the Bills ultimately lost by 7 points. It also cost them a chance at the division. Had they won that game, they would've eventually ended up tying Miami for 1st place at 10-4 and the Bills would've been 6-2 in the division while Miami would've been 5-3. As it turned out, the Bills ended up as a Wild Card team in their only playoff appearance of that decade. BTW, Greene had one for 101 yards in 1976 against Kansas City which counted and still stands as the Bills all-time record. Wish I could've seen that one but it was a home game and blacked out so I only got to hear the call on the radio but it was still exciting. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, DrDare said:

I was real young but remember Leonard Smith was good

 

Thought Smith played SS and sometimes CB?

[Misterbluesky]

10 hours ago, ExWNYer said:

 

I loved Tony Greene. To this day, #43 is still one of my favorite Bills of all time.

 

 

 

 

It happened in 1974 and was actually 105 yards...would've stood as the longest INT return in team history had it not been called back on a bogus penalty. I remember watching that game on TV as a kid in Grand Island. Still one of my most vivid Bills memories as a youngster. Seeing Tony weave his way in and out of traffic on his way to the end zone was a thing of beauty. I was so upset when they called back that pick six. It was the difference in a game the Bills ultimately lost by 7 points. It also cost them a chance at the division. Had they won that game, they would've eventually ended up tying Miami for 1st place at 10-4 and the Bills would've been 6-2 in the division while Miami would've been 5-3. As it turned out, the Bills ended up as a Wild Card team in their only playoff appearance of that decade. BTW, Greene had one for 101 yards in 1976 against Kansas City which counted and still stands as the Bills all-time record. Wish I could've seen that one but it was a home game and blacked out so I only got to hear the call on the radio but it was still exciting. 

Thank you kind sir,I thought I was going senile.

And it was a national NBC game on a Saturday (12:30).

[noacls]

22 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Odomes was Pro Bowler in '92 and '93 seasons for Bills. Signed to a big FA deal by Seattle and got hurt and never played a down for them in 2 years.  He tried to come back in 96 with ATL and couldn't play, starting in 4/7 games played before retiring at end of season.

 

From 1988-1990 the Bills SS Leonard Smith was a hard-hitting SS and really brought it every play.    After 1990 season the Bills lacked physicality in the Secondary until 1994 when Matt Darby became the starting FS.  It got a little tougher when Kurt Schultz became FS in 1995.

 

IIRC in Giants SB, Kelso was done for year and John Hagy started at FS.  Likewise at CB, JD Williams was out so Kirby Jackson played instead.  Odomes played CB and Leonard Smith was SS.  Kelso played in Redskins SB.  Leonard Smith had a knee infection and missed SB XXVI and Dwight Drane played instead.  Smith never returned to NFL.

For 1992 SB Smith was out replaced at SS by Henry Jones and Kelso played FS.  JD Williams and Kirby Jackson split time at one CB position with Odomes at the other.

By end of 1993 season, Odomes played last year as a Bill and Mickey Washington and JD Williams platooned at one CB position while Kelso and Jones were FS/SS respectively.

I believe Kelso played in SB25. there is a highlight I remember they showed for awhile after a where Kelso got run over by OJ Anderson. The Bill's secondary was a mess during Super Bowl years. Losing Burroughs really hurt them. As for best Bill's safety I would have to say Freeman. The 2 guys they have now are well on there way there. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by noacls

[WotAGuy]

23 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

It happened but was brought back because of a flag.

 

So one play that didn’t count makes him the best?

[fridge]

J. Byrd definitely had the best season. For best all-time you old farts are trotting out some names I don't know so I'll have to defer to you.

[ExWNYer]

2 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

Thank you kind sir,I thought I was going senile.

And it was a national NBC game on a Saturday (12:30).

 

You are quite welcome, although I don't recall it being on a Saturday. Either way, it happened...or "didn't" technically since it was called back...but I witnessed it, as did you. I can't confirm your senility but I can confirm that play. ?

[Misterbluesky]

Just now, ExWNYer said:

 

You are quite welcome, although I don't recall it being on a Saturday. Either way, it happened...or "didn't" technically since it was called back...but I witnessed it, as did you. I can't confirm your senility but I can confirm that play. ?

I was at the KC game..sunny day. It was the only game my mother attended in her life..my dad took the entire family (6).P..S.- You have a very good memory!