Is Tom Brady A Cheater?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I respect the dynastic greatness we’ve seen from the Pats/Brady/BB since 2001, and I’ve grudgingly referred to TB12 as the GOAT on these boards plenty. As Bills fans we should know as much as anybody just how much of a feat it is to sustain any kind of greatness over time, coming back time after time. That disclaimer out of the way, doesn’t mean we don’t get to poke fun at their expense—I will be reprising a memes thread the week before every game against them like I did this year, because, why not? As football fans we can appreciate what run they’re on (unnecessary cheating episode warts notwithstanding), but as Bills fans we get to also boo their arrogant smug mugs and pile on, hoping to crack their streaks with our own new wunderkind at the helm. We can do both, people! 

Edited January 25, 2019 by NoHuddleKelly12

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Not looking for a tiring argument here, but funding of a stadium and league investigations into teams crossing boundaries seems like an extended leap. That’s a reach just looking for something to complain about IMO. 

Yeah I'm not complaining. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

7 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

He doesn't have to cheat.... the Refs are on his side.

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Not looking for a tiring argument here, but funding of a stadium and league investigations into teams crossing boundaries seems like an extended leap. That’s a reach just looking for something to complain about IMO. 

Kraft funded his own stadium.  They would rework the mortgage every 30 days on The Razor.

 

Any coincidence the League needs them to win the last 20 years?  Just imagine if the team stunk, fans left and poster-boy owner Krafty went belly up like the previous New England owners  because of fickle fans that would rather become Eagles & Giants fans than loser Pats** fans.  Bet that's faster than you can say: "Ralph is dead and can't keep us afloat" or "Patriot** Place is really cool but nobody is shopping there."

 

Just saying... Yeah, it is about funding and the banks... That's no reach.  

[GoBills808]

48 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Kraft funded his own stadium.  They would rework the mortgage every 30 days on The Razor.

 

Any coincidence the League needs them to win the last 20 years?  Just imagine if the team stunk, fans left and poster-boy owner Krafty went belly up like the previous New England owners  because of fickle fans that would rather become Eagles & Giants fans than loser Pats** fans.  Bet that's faster than you can say: "Ralph is dead and can't keep us afloat" or "Patriot** Place is really cool but nobody is shopping there."

 

Just saying... Yeah, it is about funding and the banks... That's no reach.  

Not to mention the countless sharps that have bankrolled their families for the next few centuries betting the Pats since 2001, coincidentally also the year Goodell became NFL VP and COO.

[reddogblitz]

Yes.

 

He figured out a way to manipulate the most basic element of the game.  The football ?.

 

To believe they have only cheated the 2 times they were caught and have since stopped seems naive.

 

As far as the destroyed tapes i suspect they contained  stuff besides the signals and clock ⏰ thing, like Super Bowl opponent's walk throughs.  Ask Marshall Falk about that sometime.  Thumbs up to Coach Pedersen for doing a fake walk through last year. Hopefully Coach McVey does likewise.

[BillsFan1988]

I think its a mixture of cheating by the Pats and the NFL. We seen in the early yrs of there dynasty the Pats benefitted from the Tuck rule which we never again seen called and spygate . This was a major key to there success considering they won all 3 Superbowls by slim margins. Not only did they benefit from the tuck rule and spygate they were allowed to hold at will on offense and defense. Im pretty sure people here seen those gms against Peyton Mannings Colts . The Patriots secondary was allowed to maul and hold the Colts Wrs at will. 

 

Fast forward to present day and the Refs always seem to give the Pats all the 50/50 calls going there way. Not only that but u hardly see them behind the sticks in 2nd & 20 or 3rd & longs . They hold and no one calls it especially on kick and punt returns. 

 

When u play the Pats not only are u playing against a well prepared team but your playing against the NFL to.  I call them the Man Made Dynasty.  I believe without the extra help they still would of won a few Superbowls maybe 3 but not 5 going on 6.

[papazoid]

the NFL penalty for altering the inflation of a ball was a $25,000 fine.

 

Aaron Rodgers admitted to over inflating his balls.

 

the wells report proved nothing and in fact absolved the organization and head coach of any wrongdoing.

 

brady was suspended for not fully cooperating.

 

Roger Goodell and the league knew full well this was a common practice in the NFL and college. instead of entrapping one franchise he should have sent out a warning letter to all 32 teams saying cease and desist. 

 

had the Buffalo Bills won a super bowl under these same conditions.....the posts around here would be a lot different.

[buffaloboyinATL]

15 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/10-year-old-kid-won-science-fair-proving-tom-brady-cheater-184439991.html

This is awesome! I love it.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I really really really really wish I could see those tapes that were destroyed from spy gate and Brady's cell phone text messages that were destroyed. I think these things are just the tip of the iceberg, I think a lot more stuff will come out once they retire.

[Bing Bong]

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Are you trying to imply I am somehow saying Jerry Rice was only great because of Stick-em?  If you are, then you are wrong because I did NOT say that nor do I think that.  Jerry Rice was the GOAT at WR.  I brought up Jerry Rice and stick em to point out the hypocrisy of those discrediting Brady over something as minor and stupid as "deflate-gate" yet they dont do the same to Jerry Rice even though Jerry used an illegal substance on his gloves over his whole career.  

 

Everyone still believes Jerry to be the GOAT, and rightfully so, and so do I.  Just like I believe Brady to be the GOAT.  But if you are going to play the scorned Bills fan and discredit Brady, then you need to be unbiased and discredit Jerry who admits to cheating against NFL rules over his career.  

 

I personally dont discredit either of them, they are great because they are better than everyone at their position and out work everyone else.  

Duh Brady and the Patriots have created the GOAT dynasty.

 

Anyways, don't try to parse my gibberish please haha. I'm just messing with you for your propensity to call opinions factually wrong because you believe your facts back up your opposing opinion. And then you typically reject other opinions with hypotheticals that any take is wrong because anything can happen in the future.

 

But did Jerry Rice cheat more than the Patriots? How on God's Earth do you quantify that? This is gold.. my impression:

 

Just absolutely factually and categorically wrong  . I mean Jerry Rice only claimed to using stickum when it was legal rookie year (doubt it).. Glove technology today is way better than what Jerry was working with back then as well so your claim has no merit as the Patriots have used methods of cheating that holds an advantage regardless of the era.

 

Would you rather I quietly disagree with you that Jerry Rice cheated more than the Patriots or jump into this most moronic debate?

 

(I'm referring to our Beane WR evaluation talent argument from way back btw)

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Lost me here...first thought that comes to mind is "Duh" of course opinions are face value.  Your next line makes no sense and throws the whole 2 sentences off though and I have no idea what you are trying to say. 

Also super annoying to criticize 2 sentences for your not being able to read between the lines haha. Use your left brain. Do you read a poem and tell yourself "well that just felt contradictory!". Opinions are taken at face value. Either they're right (to you: as in you agree with them) or they're unknown (as in who tf will ever know who the "bigger cheater" is if someone was to disagree with you). 

[Franco_92]

18 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

I generally agree with you. I think they “out-everything” the entire league. 

 

I don’t discount spy gate though. Not necessarily because of when they did it, but because the effects are so long lasting and career altering.

 

Brady knowing the signals, calls, plays, and most importantly, keeping his helmet mic on, are the worlds greatest tutor when it comes to learning the game in the NFL. He got them all in live action. You can’t discount it in terms of his current ability to see the field. 

 

Would Tom have been great with out it? Sure, probably. Would he be the GOAT and play at such a high level mentally into his 40’s, like he is now? Unsure. At best it’s worth the conversation. At worst, Brady would have had a Rogers, Romo, Rivers, Manning, type career without that “tutoring” and “mentorship” during his early stages of his career. 

Is there anything definitive about the helmet mic stuff from the Patriots? I read about it here in broad terms but have no idea what they've been proven to have done, when, and what the speculation is beyond what has been proven/caught.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Duh Brady and the Patriots have created the GOAT dynasty.

 

Anyways, don't try to parse my gibberish please haha. I'm just messing with you for your propensity to call opinions factually wrong because you believe your facts back up your opposing opinion. And then you typically reject other opinions with hypotheticals that any take is wrong because anything can happen in the future.

 

Well the thread I believe you are referring to where I used the phrase "categorically" wrong is the one where we were discussing if Alabama could be an NFL team.  And the contact in which I used it is 100% factual, not opinion.  That was when people kept referring to players on the Alabama (and Clemson) rosters as "NFL Players" because of one day many will be in the NFL.  And its factually wrong because they are using FUTURE versions of those players as if those players exist at that level today.  None of the players on those college teams have gone through an NFL OTA, practice, training camp, or preseason.  They are not the same player they WILL be when they step on the field Week 1 of their rookie season.  So to refer to them as if they already have that experience is factually incorrect, not to mention, many of the college kids won't enter the NFL for another year or 2.  

 

So I stand by my statement, that its categorically incorrect to refer to those kids as "NFL players" because they will eventually get there.  They won't be "NFL Players" in this hypothetical made up game, they will still be college kids, many of which still a year or two away from NFL, and in some cases 3 years away.  So its a false statement to use their NFL PROJECTED selves in this make believe game that would occur "today".

 

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

 

But did Jerry Rice cheat more than the Patriots? How on God's Earth do you quantify that? This is gold.. my impression:

 

Just absolutely factually and categorically wrong  . I mean Jerry Rice only claimed to using stickum when it was legal rookie year (doubt it).. Glove technology today is way better than what Jerry was working with back then as well so your claim has no merit as the Patriots have used methods of cheating that holds an advantage regardless of the era.

 

 

What are you talking about here?  Jerry admitted to using the gloves over his career.  Patriots were accused of deflated footballs for one half of a game, in which Brady played better in the second half with the proper inflation balls anyway.  

 

And sorry, I cant help you in regards to your "impression" of what I said.  You went way way over the top on what I said with what you claim your "impression" was of a simple sentence I used in a previous post.  And the point of my sentence was to show that players and coaches always trying to get an edge, including the great Jerry Rice.  So if someone is going to be UNBIASED regarding Brady, then they should make the same statements about guys like Rice, Rodgers, etc who also admitted to acts outside the rules.  

 

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

 

Would you rather I quietly disagree with you that Jerry Rice cheated more than the Patriots or jump into this most moronic debate?

 

You can disagree with it all you want.  Just means you missed my point.  Jerry admitted to cheating outside the legal NFL rules.  All I said if you are going to start trying to claim Brady should be discredited and really isnt the GOAT over something like deflate gate, then you should be consistent and do it with all players.

 

Jerry is the GOAT at WR in my book.  And Brady is the GOAT at QB in my book.  They are the GOAT in my book because they are better than everyone else.  

 

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

 

(I'm referring to our Beane WR evaluation talent argument from way back btw)

 

Another thing you seem to have gotten wrong about what I said.  I said we dont know what Beane's ability to identify WR talent is because in his ONE draft he didn't prioritize the WR position yet. Meanwhile he found a gem in an UDFA.  You wanted to argue he sucks at it, and I said there isnt enough body of work to determine that.  He may suck at it, or he may not.  You were also falsely using the Zay over JuJu in your argument about Beane not being good at it and I pointed out to you that Beane was a member of the Carolina Panthers when we drafted Zay.

 

So you wanted to jump to conclusions about Beane based on activity that had nothing to do with him.  Thats your choice, I on the other hand stick to the facts of what he really was involved in and holding my judgement on his ability to do something until there is more information to understand his ability to do so.

 

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Also super annoying to criticize 2 sentences for your not being able to read between the lines haha. Use your left brain. Do you read a poem and tell yourself "well that just felt contradictory!". Opinions are taken at face value. Either they're right (to you: as in you agree with them) or they're unknown (as in who tf will ever know who the "bigger cheater" is if someone was to disagree with you). 

 

Sorry bud, wasn't meant to be annoying, but you didn't write a lot of your stuff very clearly and made vague references to other things.  But all said and done, seems I did a pretty good job figuring it out.  

 

And no...opinions are opinions.  None are right or wrong, they are subjective thoughts seen through the eyes of an individual.  One can agree or disagree with them, doesn't make one side right or wrong.  What is always right is facts, like the fact Beane had nothing to do with Zay yet you incorrectly implicated him in that decision to form an opinion.  So said opinion is now be formed off of false facts which makes said opinion unreliable and inaccurate.  

[Iron Maiden]

Yes, they cheated....but it's not the reason they've been dominating the NFL for 20 years....Cameras at illegal spots( 12-13 years ago ) and deflated balls ( still think that one is stupid ) is what some cling onto only because they kick our teams ass so often...and somehow, cannot give any credit to NE....let's face it, they are the greatest dynasty in football, and we'll never see something like that again...Brady is the GOAT and so is BB...that's why they are dominating...it's actually pretty simple....

 

They out prepare teams who are often more talented....they are disciplined and rarely make mistakes....and when you do, they pounce on you and make you pay....I can't wait for it to end...but they are that good.....

[Nextmanup]

Did anyone here closely follow NCAA men's basketball in the '60s and '70s?

 

I'm wondering if it was common back then to accuse John Wooden and UCLA of cheating in the manner we hear about all the time now with New England.

 

 

[prissythecat]

I can see a few flaws in the methodology but gotta love the determination

 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/child-wins-science-fair-proving-tom-brady-cheated-using-deflated-footballs-1304644

[Foxx]

On 1/24/2019 at 5:04 PM, Azucho98 said:

He doesn't have to cheat.... the Refs are on his side.

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Foxx

[thunderingsquid]

Kid's got potential.  Science fair GOAT!

[Big Turk]

[reddogblitz]

11 hours ago, arcane said:

Is there anything definitive about the helmet mic stuff from the Patriots? I read about it here in broad terms but have no idea what they've been proven to have done, when, and what the speculation is beyond what has been proven/caught.

 

Definitive?  Maybe not.

 

It comes from mainly 2 places.

 

1. In an interview with Doug Flutie saying he was surprised while listening to his helmet on the sidelines that the communications continued after the 15 second cut off.  

 

2. Peyton Manning and others have said that in critical points in games at the Razor the radio would cut out.  Who can forget Mike Tomlin getting the Pasties** radio broadcast through his headset?  A high tech stadium in a high tech city can't seem to get the radio thing figured out somehow.

Edited January 26, 2019 by reddogblitz