JohnC Posted May 3, 2019 Posted May 3, 2019 The attached link is a Buffalo News article by Lance Lysoroski analyzing why this team has failed and what it takes to succeed i.e. patience. It details a list of Sabre personnel moves that were disastrous. The accumulation of bad deals has crushed this franchise and set it back. Hopefully, Botts successfully follows the Pittsburg model of drafting well and player development to get this franchise on the right track. Quick fixes at the expense of smart and patient work has set this franchise back. https://buffalonews.com/2019/05/03/buffalo-sabres-jason-botterill-darcy-regier-tim-murray-terry-pegula-nhl-news/
K-9 Posted May 3, 2019 Posted May 3, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnC said: It's going to be interesting to see how Toronto handles this offseason with a boatload of young talent and fitting in all of those contracts. I was surprised that they signed Nylander and made their cap squeeze even a bigger challenge to work with. Somethings got to give with them. Kadri is an enticing talent to salivate over. Yeah, Kadri is very talented and could step right in to a 2C role. But there’s no way I want that douche nozzle on my favorite hockey team. Besides, Risto would murder him before camp was over.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 9 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Honest question - do you truly think the Sabres are in a position to take another shot on a totally unproven head coach? Personally i I feel like the Sabres are one of the teams that can least afford to gamble on another unproven guy. If they miss it sets them back at least 3-4 more years. Eichel is more than half way through his deal. Dahlin is 1-2 years into his 2nd contract. Same with Mittelstadt. Numerous young guys will bee off their ELC’s. With how far the rebuild has been set back already, I just don’t think we can take another big set back. Now, obviously this is true of any coaching hire.... O But at least with a coach like Tippett, we know he is a more than competent NHL head coach. He has a track record of success in the NHL. He’s been through a lot in his career. He’s handled and overcome adversity. He’s been through a rebuild. He’s made the playoffs numerous shown he can dramatically improve teams. The Stars improved 21 points in the standings Tippett’s first year, and the Coyotes improved 25pts in his first year there. Tippett has shown an ability to get the most out of his teams, even when he doesn’t have a lot to work with. I like Gronborg but he is a risk. I believe he has only been a tournament coach for the last 9 years. Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I saw I don’t think he’s coached more than 12 games at a time since way back in 2002 when he coached a 60 game junior season. We don’t know how he would handle the grind of an NHL season. He’s never been a head coach in any professional league that I am aware of. Just 4 years in the AWHL back 20+ years ago, which is a tier 3 junior hockey league (tier 1 is the highest junior level) Plus he’s a european coach. There have only been 2 or 3 coaches hired from Europe in NHL history. Not much track record of success there. It would be a big gamble. And Only 2 GM’s in Sabres history have had the chance to hire more than 2 coaches. One was Scotty Bowman, the other was Punch Imlach iirc. I think the most important thing is getting the Sabres back to respectability. We need to be a consistent playoff team before we worry about hiring some coach to take us to a Cup. If we get back to respectability and consistently competing for a playoff spot, we will be in a much better position to take a gamble on a coaching hire (to get us over the playoff hump) at that time. Just my opinion anyway. Edit - just to be clear, I’d be ok with Grönborg. I’d just prefer Tippett is all. Hes not unproven, he is a winner and has played and coached in North America, so its not that big of a deal. Honestly i dont know jack about Hockey, but im so sick and tired of the Sabres floundering, that we need someone who has a new and proven way to do things.
JohnC Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Hes not unproven, he is a winner and has played and coached in North America, so its not that big of a deal. Honestly i dont know jack about Hockey, but im so sick and tired of the Sabres floundering, that we need someone who has a new and proven way to do things. There is no magic man coach who simply by his presence and preferred system is going to turn around a flailing franchise. The primary issue why this franchise has struggled is that its talent level is inadequate. There has been a history of so many bad personnel decisions that it not only didn't advance the team but set it back. I'm not dismissing or minimizing the importance of a good coach. But the real issues relating to success for the Sabres is bringing in more talent and developing your talent. You don't have to be a hockey aficionado to recognize which teams are better and more likely to succeed. If you regularly watch the Sabres that becomes starkly evident. 1
JohnC Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 14 hours ago, K-9 said: Yeah, Kadri is very talented and could step right in to a 2C role. But there’s no way I want that douche nozzle on my favorite hockey team. Besides, Risto would murder him before camp was over. Brad Marchand on the Bruins is a despicable dirty rat. Brad Marchand on the Sabres is a lovable hamster. 1
plenzmd1 Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, JohnC said: There is no magic man coach who simply by his presence and preferred system is going to turn around a flailing franchise. The primary issue why this franchise has struggled is that its talent level is inadequate. There has been a history of so many bad personnel decisions that it not only didn't advance the team but set it back. I'm not dismissing or minimizing the importance of a good coach. But the real issues relating to success for the Sabres is bringing in more talent and developing your talent. You don't have to be a hockey aficionado to recognize which teams are better and more likely to succeed. If you regularly watch the Sabres that becomes starkly evident. hmm, Carolina is the finals with basically a new coach and some tweaks..NYI lost their best player, failed to make playoffs last year..and won a round with a new coach. St Loius was in last place when they fired their coach..and are still playing with the new one. Stars did not make playoffs last year and still playing I agree and understand that no coach is a panacea, but I think in this sport and with the advent of player usage and advanced analytics, ..and in a s[ort where i hate to say but attitude matters a lot too, i think a coach is much more important than you do... I also think they lose their message faster in this sport than any other...... I truly dont hink the Sabres are as far off talent wise you... I think a coaching change last year in early January would have kept them in the playoff race. 1
JohnC Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: hmm, Carolina is the finals with basically a new coach and some tweaks..NYI lost their best player, failed to make playoffs last year..and won a round with a new coach. St Loius was in last place when they fired their coach..and are still playing with the new one. Stars did not make playoffs last year and still playing I agree and understand that no coach is a panacea, but I think in this sport and with the advent of player usage and advanced analytics, ..and in a s[ort where i hate to say but attitude matters a lot too, i think a coach is much more important than you do... I also think they lose their message faster in this sport than any other...... I truly dont hink the Sabres are as far off talent wise you... I think a coaching change last year in early January would have kept them in the playoff race. I also agree that the Sabres are not far away talent wise from being a competitive team. And I believe that in a year or two some of those glaring deficiencies can be adequately addressed. But let's be candid about last year's roster. It didn't have a credible, or close to a credible second line. You are not going to win with any coach with one scoring line and no secondary scoring. In addition, our defensive corps, although improved, still had limitations. I think that reinforcement from players such as Borgen and Pilut should help there. You want to place most of the blame on this team's downward spiral to Housley. I don't accept that facile analysis. It's about the roster. It mostly has been about it and future success will be predicated on that issue. I don't care what coach is brought the more important issue revolves around the talent level. 2
K-9 Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 33 minutes ago, JohnC said: Brad Marchand on the Bruins is a despicable dirty rat. Brad Marchand on the Sabres is a lovable hamster. Not for this fan. If he were on the Sabres and he punched an opposing player in the back of the head while he was down on his knees, and then ran away and hid, I’d call for his immediate release. There comes a point where the level of doucheness outweighs a superior talent level. Marchand is a repeatedly repeating repeat of dirty plays over the years. I would have sent him packing after his first half dozen or so. 1
BillsFan4 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Hes not unproven, he is a winner and has played and coached in North America, so its not that big of a deal. Honestly i dont know jack about Hockey, but im so sick and tired of the Sabres floundering, that we need someone who has a new and proven way to do things. He is only proven as a tournament coach. As I mentioned in my last post, He only has 4 years of actual regular season head coaching experienced and he hasn’t coached a regular season since 2002 and that was in a tier 3 junior league. Tier 1 is the highest junior league. Then comes tier 2 and then tier 3. And junior hockey isn’t professional hockey either. He was a coach in the now defunct AWHL, which is a league that covered the Rocky Mountain region. Honestly, I would compare it to Phil Housley’s time as a high school hockey coach. That’s about how meaningful it is... I agree we need someone proven. I just don’t think Grönborg is that guy. He is the opposite of proven. Edited May 4, 2019 by BillsFan4
Nextmanup Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Not for this fan. If he were on the Sabres and he punched an opposing player in the back of the head while he was down on his knees, and then ran away and hid, I’d call for his immediate release. There comes a point where the level of doucheness outweighs a superior talent level. Marchand is a repeatedly repeating repeat of dirty plays over the years. I would have sent him packing after his first half dozen or so. I'd kill to have Marchand on the Sabres, and a whole bunch of players just like him. He's super tough to play against and doesn't make it easy for the opposition, on top of being a really good hockey player. Sabres need about 17 of those guys right now.
JohnC Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 2 hours ago, K-9 said: Not for this fan. If he were on the Sabres and he punched an opposing player in the back of the head while he was down on his knees, and then ran away and hid, I’d call for his immediate release. There comes a point where the level of doucheness outweighs a superior talent level. Marchand is a repeatedly repeating repeat of dirty plays over the years. I would have sent him packing after his first half dozen or so. I'm very confident that your noble view would be a minority view with the overwhelming number of fans in the arena who would be cheering him on. I personally don't like that type of cheap shot behavior either. But I'm confident that Marchand would be a very popular player here as he is in Boston. To a lesser extent Kaleta was our hometown instigative player. He was very popular here.
K-9 Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Nextmanup said: I'd kill to have Marchand on the Sabres, and a whole bunch of players just like him. He's super tough to play against and doesn't make it easy for the opposition, on top of being a really good hockey player. Sabres need about 17 of those guys right now. Nope. He’s a class A a-hole. Don’t care how good he is.
Cripple Creek Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, JohnC said: I'm very confident that your noble view would be a minority view with the overwhelming number of fans in the arena who would be cheering him on. I personally don't like that type of cheap shot behavior either. But I'm confident that Marchand would be a very popular player here as he is in Boston. To a lesser extent Kaleta was our hometown instigative player. He was very popular here. There's "instigative" then there're dirty rats. Marchand is a dirty rat & I, for two, want no part of him or his ilk. Edited May 4, 2019 by Cripple Creek
K-9 Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, JohnC said: I'm very confident that your noble view would be a minority view with the overwhelming number of fans in the arena who would be cheering him on. I personally don't like that type of cheap shot behavior either. But I'm confident that Marchand would be a very popular player here as he is in Boston. To a lesser extent Kaleta was our hometown instigative player. He was very popular here. Of course my view on Marchand and talented players like him would be in the minority. I don't give two craps, either. Would you cut an untalented player if he were as big a repeated A-hole over the years? Key word: repeated. I find the Kaleta comparison lacking as he didn’t have half the history Marchand has. And I know more than a few fans who were OK with Kaleta getting his cowardly, turtling ass kicked off the team as well. Edited May 4, 2019 by K-9
JohnC Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: He is only proven as a tournament coach. As I mentioned in my last post, He only has 4 years of actual regular season head coaching experienced and he hasn’t coached a regular season since 2002 and that was in a tier 3 junior league. Tier 1 is the highest junior league. Then comes tier 2 and then tier 3. And junior hockey isn’t professional hockey either. He was a coach in the now defunct AWHL, which is a league that covered the Rocky Mountain region. Honestly, I would compare it to Phil Housley’s time as a high school hockey coach. That’s about how meaningful it is... I agree we need someone proven. I just don’t think Grönborg is that guy. He is the opposite of proven. If you review the coaches that the Sabres have considered such as McClellan, Tippett and Vigneault it becomes apparent that the bias is toward coaches with NHL experience. That is not to say that coaching candidates without head coaching experience in the league won't also be considered. The Toronto Marlies coach, Sheldon Keefe, would be an interesting candidate. As far as Gronborg as a coach I am open to him. But doubt that he would be hired by the Sabres. If he wanted to coach in the NHL his best route is to get a minor league job and demonstrate what his capabilities. 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Of course my view on Marchand and talented players like him would be in the minority. I don't give two craps, either. Would you cut an untalented player if he were as big a repeated A-hole over the years? Key word: repeated. I find the Kaleta comparison lacking as he didn’t have half the history Marchand has. Responding to the highlighted area my answer is yes. 1
K-9 Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: If you review the coaches that the Sabres have considered such as McClellan, Tippett and Vigneault it becomes apparent that the bias is toward coaches with NHL experience. That is not to say that coaching candidates without head coaching experience in the league won't also be considered. The Toronto Marlies coach, Sheldon Keefe, would be an interesting candidate. As far as Gronborg as a coach I am open to him. But doubt that he would be hired by the Sabres. If he wanted to coach in the NHL his best route is to get a minor league job and demonstrate what his capabilities. Responding to the highlighted area my answer is yes. Why would you cut that less talented player?
JohnC Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: There's "instigative" then there're dirty rats. Marchand is a dirty rat & I, for two, want no part of him or his ilk. I'm confident that Marchand would be cheered if he were wearing a Sabre sweater. I'm not criticizing anyone who has a similar view as yours. My point is that from a local sports fan perspective your noble view would be a minority view.
Cripple Creek Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 Just now, JohnC said: I'm confident that Marchand would be cheered if he were wearing a Sabre sweater. I'm not criticizing anyone who has a similar view as yours. My point is that from a local sports fan perspective your noble view would be a minority view. I prefer to be on the side of right.?
JohnC Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Why would you cut that less talented player? The answer should be obvious. Marchand would be a much more impacting player. 1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said: I prefer to be on the side of right.? If this was a moral issue I would agree with you. I don't think that his rambunctious style of play should be thought of in that realm.
K-9 Posted May 4, 2019 Posted May 4, 2019 Just now, JohnC said: The answer should be obvious. Marchand would be a much more impacting player. I didn’t ask why you would keep Marchand, I asked why you would cut a less talented version.
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