Buffalo Sabres & NHL 2018-19: Sabres picking 7th overall (6/21/19). Ralph Krueger hire as new head coach!

[BillsFan4]

7 hours ago, JohnC said:

I was open to trading Risto for second-line players. Now I am less so. It's easier to get forwards through trades and free agency than it is to get top two pairing defenseman. My complaint with Risto is that he tends to lose his focus and discipline. He can be easily provoked into losing sight of his responsibilities. Part of the problem is that he plays too many minutes. I'm thinking/hoping that few minutes might translate into few lapses.

 

Next year I seen Pilut and maybe Borgen added to the mix. Compared to a few years ago our defensive corps has been upgraded. That is not to say that there doesn't need more to do with that unit.  Some people (K-9) have a scathing view of Scandella. As a third pairing blue line player I have no problem with him.  

Yes, lower minutes, better d partners and better coaching with a better defensive structure would all help Risto. We saw Montour and other making similar mistakes when forced into Risto’s minutes at the end of the year. 

 

 

 

I am not completely opposed to trading Risto. He’s been here through all of the losing and makes his fair share of mistakes (like every other Sabre...). But it has to be the right trade.

 

What I am scared of is Risto being the scapegoat this offseason - that Jason Botterill will feel he NEEDS to trade Risto and will take whatever the best offer is this summer.

 

I give Botterill some slack on the ROR trade because there were some extenuating circumstances (his attitude+comments, the $7.5M bonus due July 1, his contract structure being all bonuses, etc).  I don’t see this as a ROR situation though, so I am not willing to cut Botterill the same slack with Risto. 

 

I just don't see where a Ristolainen trade has to be done. If the right offer comes, then ok. Take it. But otherwise I’d like to see what he looks like with better partners for a season (between Dahlin being in year 2 and a full year of Montour, we have the guys to help ease his burden. And who knows, Maybe there will even be a free agent addition...) and hopefully better coaching. 

 

 

 

 

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Yes, lower minutes, better d partners and better coaching with a better defensive structure would all help Risto. We saw Montour and other making similar mistakes when forced into Risto’s minutes at the end of the year. 

 

 

 

I am not completely opposed to trading Risto. He’s been here through all of the losing and makes his fair share of mistakes (like every other Sabre...). But it has to be the right trade.

 

What I am scared of is Risto being the scapegoat this offseason - that Jason Botterill will feel he NEEDS to trade Risto and will take whatever the best offer is this summer.

 

I give Botterill some slack on the ROR trade because there were some extenuating circumstances (his attitude+comments, the $7.5M bonus due July 1, his contract structure being all bonuses, etc).  I don’t see this as a ROR situation though, so I am not willing to cut Botterill the same slack with Risto. 

 

I just don't see where a Ristolainen trade has to be done. If the right offer comes, then ok. Take it. But otherwise I’d like to see what he looks like with better partners for a season (between Dahlin being in year 2 and a full year of Montour, we have the guys to help ease his burden. And who knows, Maybe there will even be a free agent addition...) and hopefully better coaching. 

 

 

 

 

There is another aspect to the Risto trade issue that isn't often discussed: Does he want to stay? I read an interview where he stated that is tired of the losing and desperately wants to participate in the playoffs. As a Sabre he has never experienced the playoffs, and isn't sure that he will in the near future. That playoff drought continuing on has to wear him (and others) down and make him (and others) receptive to moving on where his prospects would be better. 

 

The GM has to be aggressive in adding to the roster going beyond his own prospect pipeline. My worry is that players such as  Eichel and Reinhart, and others, will just get so discouraged that they demand a change of scenery.  You don't think that ROR is glad that he expressed his disgruntlement that ultimately got him sent to a team that is advancing in the playoffs and also has a legitimate chance at winning the Stanley Cup? 

[BillsFan4]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure how I feel about Martin. To try and focus on the positive -

 

 he does have a ton of experience, and has also turned around a franchise before. 

 

He took over the Ottawa Senators head coaching job in their 4th season in the NHL. 

They had 8 total wins the year prior and had 8 total wins when he took over more than 1/2 way through the 1995/96 season. 

 

The sens went from last place to first in the northeast division by Martin’s 3rd full year and had 2more 1st place finishes in the following 4 seasons.

 

 

He was also brought in to stabilize the Pittsburgh bench 2 separate times - once under Bylsma and again when Mike Sullivan was promoted. 

 

He may not be the worst choice to help stabilize the Sabres. For those who want a hard ass who will put a good defensive structure in place, Martin could be that guy. 

 

And he could be transitioned into another role if/when someone like Chris Taylor was ready to take over (he’s done that before). 

 

 

Definitely wouldn’t be the most inspiring hire. But I’d give him a chance I guess. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by BillsFan4

[May Day 10]

14 hours ago, JohnC said:

There is another aspect to the Risto trade issue that isn't often discussed: Does he want to stay? I read an interview where he stated that is tired of the losing and desperately wants to participate in the playoffs. As a Sabre he has never experienced the playoffs, and isn't sure that he will in the near future. That playoff drought continuing on has to wear him (and others) down and make him (and others) receptive to moving on where his prospects would be better. 

 

The GM has to be aggressive in adding to the roster going beyond his own prospect pipeline. My worry is that players such as  Eichel and Reinhart, and others, will just get so discouraged that they demand a change of scenery.  You don't think that ROR is glad that he expressed his disgruntlement that ultimately got him sent to a team that is advancing in the playoffs and also has a legitimate chance at winning the Stanley Cup? 

 

if that's the case, put it on these players to find it within themselves to make it happen here.  That needs to happen at some point.  OReilly, Lehner, Kane, etc all have gotten placed into great situations.  Ship Risto out because he "is sick of losing".... how long before Reinhart, Eichel, Dahlen follow suit?  

Sick of losing?  that's great.  Do something about it.

 

The team straight up quit on themselves, the franchise, and the fans 3 straight seasons.  

[BillsfaninChicago]

Is there a reason why the Sabres didn’t make a move for Quinville during the season when he was still available? He actually got the Blackhawks off the ground with a similar roster back when he took over in 2008. Firing Housley actually made sense only if there was an obvious upgrade available which it seemed like there was.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

 

if that's the case, put it on these players to find it within themselves to make it happen here.  That needs to happen at some point.  OReilly, Lehner, Kane, etc all have gotten placed into great situations.  Ship Risto out because he "is sick of losing".... how long before Reinhart, Eichel, Dahlen follow suit?  

Sick of losing?  that's great.  Do something about it.

 

The team straight up quit on themselves, the franchise, and the fans 3 straight seasons.  

When discussing the departure of ROR, Lehner and Kane they all went from a team with a lesser amount of talent to a team with much more talent. It's not surprising that playing for a winning team and playoff participating team is more enjoyable and rewarding. 

 

The players in the league are not stupid and unaware of their situation and team's status. They know which organizations are better managed and more likely to have more talent and are in a better situation to win. Losing not unsurprisingly has a corrosive effect, especially if has been going on for a decade or so. Players are competitive by nature, not robotic drones. They want to win! As I and others have stated in prior posts the GM has to act with urgency to improve the roster and make this a more competitive team. Otherwise, the demoralizing effect of losing will open the door for more players to want to exit. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by JohnC

[plenzmd1]

 

 

 

 

3

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When discussing the departure of ROR, Lehner and Kane they all went from a team with a lesser amount of talent to a team with much more talent. It's not surprising that playing for a winning team and playoff participating team is more enjoyable and rewarding. 

 

The players in the league are not stupid and unaware of their situation and team's status. They know which organizations are better managed and more likely to have more talent and are in a better situation to win. Losing not unsurprisingly has a corrosive effect, especially if has been going on for a decade or so. Players are competitive by nature, not robotic drones. They want to win! As I and others have stated in prior posts the GM has to act with urgency to improve the roster and make this a more competitive team. Otherwise the demoralizing effect of losing will open the door for more players to want to exit. 

 

 

 

 

WHAT!!!!!!!!!Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!

 

All last year when @K-9 were all in on firing Housley from Mid December on as we were letting a shot at the playoffs slip, and for the love of God we needed to win and get that good feeling back, go all in for the playoffs to change this freaking team..all we heard from you was .."patience". PLayoffs and winning did not matter, development mattered.

 

What has changed? 

[Lurker]

15 minutes ago, Leonhart2017 said:

Is there a reason why the Sabres didn’t make a move for Quinville during the season when he was still available? He actually got the Blackhawks off the ground with a similar roster back when he took over in 2008. Firing Housley actually made sense only if there was an obvious upgrade available which it seemed like there was.

 

IMO, Quenneville was always ticketed for the Panthers job due to his strong relationship with Dale Tallon.     Taking a year off, going to a warm weather state with low taxes and the opportunity to rebuild by signing FA's like Panarin and Bobrovsky were other key factors.

[Nextmanup]

Martin would be a terrible idea for a Sabres HC.  But this report doesn't mean he is actually being seriously considered anyway.

 

Let's hope he is not.

 

If he is, or God forbid, if he is actually hired, that will be your way of knowing Botterill is in fact beyond clueless, as long suspected.

 

If Martin is hired as HC, expect both Martin and Botterill to be leaving the Sabres at the end of (or before) the 2019/2020 season.

 

 

[BillsfaninChicago]

10 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

IMO, Quenneville was always ticketed for the Panthers job due to his strong relationship with Dale Tallon.     Taking a year off, going to a warm weather state with low taxes and the opportunity to rebuild by signing FA's like Panarin and Bobrovsky were other key factors.

Yeah that all does make sense it still is too bad. Myself and a lot of other Sabres fans in Chicago thought the timing could not have been better when Quinville was available and the Sabres season started going sideways.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

WHAT!!!!!!!!!Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!

 

All last year when @K-9 were all in on firing Housley from Mid December on as we were letting a shot at the playoffs slip, and for the love of God we needed to win and get that good feeling back, go all in for the playoffs to change this freaking team..all we heard from you was .."patience". PLayoffs and winning did not matter, development mattered.

 

What has changed? 

I don't know why you are saying my opinion has changed, when it has not? You along with some of your associates and I won't agree on the Housley issue. So let's put it aside. What I have consistently been saying is the dissatisfying record is linked to the caliber of our roster. How you interpret any of my posts contradicting that notion is not only wrong but also weird? 

 

This GM is entering the offseason with cap room and extra high round draft picks. In addition, there are teams that have good  players on expiring contracts with little cap space. That is a propitious situation for the GM to make some deals to add some good players to bolster the roster. How is it that advocating for aggressive personnel action goes against anything I have previously stated? 

 

The point that I was making to a prior poster is that it isn't surprising that on systemically losing team that rarely participates in the playoffs that it isn't surprising that some players will want out of that type of situation. If you think that is surprising or wrong then you have an odd view of the hockey workplace, or any workplace for that matter. If you don't think that ROR, Lehner or Kane are more happy in their current situation than with their prior situation then you are living in a fantasy world. 

 

Please stop with the twisting and distorting. It is unbecoming. 

[Lurker]

18 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When discussing the departure of ROR, Lehner and Kane they all went from a team with a lesser amount of talent to a team with much more talent. It's not surprising that playing for a winning team and playoff participating team is more enjoyable and rewarding. 

 

ROR and Kane were traded and (as far as I know) didn't have a say in where they went.   Lehner was lucky to find another job after his meltdown.    The fact that they're having success now doesn't have anything to do with the Sabres situation, IMO.

 

Murray screwed the pooch in rebuilding the roster after the tank.   That's the mess that Botts is now trying to clean up.    As a first-time GM, he's been tentative for the most part--but I expect him to be more aggressive this summer, as his job is now on the line.

 

They need more talent to build a more balanced roster.   Period.   Full stop.    I think we're in agreement on that.

 

IMO, elevating guys like Olofsson and even Pilut to the big club this year wouldn't have helped.   After watching them disappear in the Amerks series with Toronto, it's apparent (to me) that they need to work on their strength and understanding of North American PLAYOFF hockey.  Same for Tage Thompson.   

 

A big reason the Sabres flamed out in the second half of the year was their lack of physical presence.  Other teams were gearing up for the playoff battles and this (soft) roster couldn't match that intensity / level of compete...

 

 

[May Day 10]

the guy to move on was Trotz last Summer.  

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

ROR and Kane were traded and (as far as I know) didn't have a say in where they went.   Lehner was lucky to find another job after his meltdown.    The fact that they're having success now doesn't have anything to do with the Sabres situation, IMO.

 

Murray screwed the pooch in rebuilding the roster after the tank.   That's the mess that Botts is now trying to clean up.    As a first-time GM, he's been tentative for the most part--but I expect him to be more aggressive this summer, as his job is now on the line.

 

They need more talent to build a more balanced roster.   Period.   Full stop.    I think we're in agreement on that.

 

IMO, elevating guys like Olofsson and even Pilut to the big club this year wouldn't have helped.   After watching them disappear in the Amerks series with Toronto, it's apparent (to me) that they need to work on their strength and understanding of North American PLAYOFF hockey.  Same for Tage Thompson.   

 

A big reason the Sabres flamed out in the second half of the year was their lack of physical presence.  Other teams were gearing up for the playoff battles and this (soft) roster couldn't match that intensity / level of compete...

 

 

Review my post to Plezmd!

 

With respect to the highlighted segment we are in accord. Contrary to how Plezmd zanily interprets what I have previously stated I have always believed that the main problem is the roster. While others look for the bogeyman I'm looking for an upgrade in talent. Some people can't accept that developing talent takes time. I do. 

[plenzmd1]

43 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't know why you are saying my opinion has changed, when it has not? You along with some of your associates and I won't agree on the Housley issue. So let's put it aside. What I have consistently been saying is the dissatisfying record is linked to the caliber of our roster. How you interpret any of my posts contradicting that notion is not only wrong but also weird? 

 

This GM is entering the offseason with cap room and extra high round draft picks. In addition, there are teams that have good  players on expiring contracts with little cap space. That is a propitious situation for the GM to make some deals to add some good players to bolster the roster. How is it that advocating for aggressive personnel action goes against anything I have previously stated? 

 

The point that I was making to a prior poster is that it isn't surprising that on systemically losing team that rarely participates in the playoffs that it isn't surprising that some players will want out of that type of situation. If you think that is surprising or wrong then you have an odd view of the hockey workplace, or any workplace for that matter. If you don't think that ROR, Lehner or Kane are more happy in their current situation than with their prior situation then you are living in a fantasy world. 

 

Please stop with the twisting and distorting. It is unbecoming. 

Consistently last year you said the Sabres had a developing roster and the playoffs should not have been the goal, and if you could give advise to JBotts was tonstay the course on his “ plan” and build from within. 

 

I was advocating trades, firings , anything to give that roster and team a shot in the arse and stop the freaking losing/ losing atmosphere that surrounds this team. 

 

Now, you say the GM has to act with urgency..... he had to act with urgency when he was given a gift 10 game win streak and he sat on his ass and you agreed with it. 

 

Trades me ya giving something of value up( unless you St. Louis or any team that trades with Chiarelli). He should have shown the same urgency you desire now back in January. Maybe the losing culture could have been shifted by now

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

Consistently last year you said the Sabres had a developing roster and the playoffs should not have been the goal, and if you could give advise to JBotts was tonstay the course on his “ plan” and build from within. 

 

I was advocating trades, firings , anything to give that roster and team a shot in the arse and stop the freaking losing/ losing atmosphere that surrounds this team. 

 

Now, you say the GM has to act with urgency..... he had to act with urgency when he was given a gift 10 game win streak and he sat on his ass and you agreed with it. 

 

Trades me ya giving something of value up( unless you St. Louis or any team that trades with Chiarelli). He should have shown the same urgency you desire now back in January. Maybe the losing culture could have been shifted by now

Last year's roster was last year's roster. It was for the most part set. There was little to do that was going to alter the course of the season during the season unless you were willing to give up young assets for making some marginal expedient moves that would have in the end set us back. If you think that I was against the Montour trade, you are wrong. If you think that I don't want the GM to use his assets to add talent this offseason, then again you are wrong.  

 

While you were in a constant state of frenzy and despair last year I argued to stay the course with the rebuilding plan and not act out of desperation. I still am advocating for the same thing. However, that doesn't mean that I'm against making deals that will upgrade the roster when we are in a position to do so. That would make no sense. You thinking that that is what I am advocating for is extraordinarily off the mark. While you were exhaustingly chasing your imaginary bogeyman I kept trying to encourage to focus on the real issue i.e. the roster. The best time to act is when you are in a position to do so. I believe that this offseason the organization is in a position to upgrade the roster. That's always been the underpinning of my discussions. I'm not sure you have fully grasped what I have been saying.  

[BillsFan4]

 

 

 

just a reminder that the Amerks game will be televised tonight

[K-9]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Review my post to Plezmd!

 

With respect to the highlighted segment we are in accord. Contrary to how Plezmd zanily interprets what I have previously stated I have always believed that the main problem is the roster. While others look for the bogeyman I'm looking for an upgrade in talent. Some people can't accept that developing talent takes time. I do. 

When you’ve been the beacon of patience and restraint all season and then use words like “urgency” to describe what the GM needs to do to improve, I can see why @plenzmd1 interpreted your post as he did. 

 

We need better players. 

 

AND

 

We need a better coach than Housley. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by K-9

[plenzmd1]

53 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Last year's roster was last year's roster. It was for the most part set. There was little to do that was going to alter the course of the season during the season unless you were willing to give up young assets for making some marginal expedient moves that would have in the end set us back. If you think that I was against the Montour trade, you are wrong. If you think that I don't want the GM to use his assets to add talent this offseason, then again you are wrong.  

 

While you were in a constant state of frenzy and despair last year I argued to stay the course with the rebuilding plan and not act out of desperation. I still am advocating for the same thing. However, that doesn't mean that I'm against making deals that will upgrade the roster when we are in a position to do so. That would make no sense. You thinking that that is what I am advocating for is extraordinarily off the mark. While you were exhaustingly chasing your imaginary bogeyman I kept trying to encourage to focus on the real issue i.e. the roster. The best time to act is when you are in a position to do so. I believe that this offseason the organization is in a position to upgrade the roster. That's always been the underpinning of my discussions. I'm not sure you have fully grasped what I have been saying.  

See, in your previous posts you talk about the losing culture and why would people want to stay here. I agree with that. That why I was so all in on making changes early January when that losing mentality could have changed. 

 

Duchene or Stone maybe makes a difference you bring them in January. You do that, maybe Skinner is signed by now. Maybe those trades with a new coach gets them in 8th... and still playing. Columbus GM showed some stones, looked what happened. 

 

As @K-9 mentioned, you seemed to have changed from patient to urgency. You say the culture and losing needs to change, but you were not willing to do that during the season when it was readily apparent the whole the whole season was circling the drain. 

 

Free agent money would would still be there BTW. 

 

I would take a playoff appearance and Skinner signed right now with only one first rounder. That would have shown urgency, and stones , and some semblance of understanding the situation here. And maybe changed some of the “ it’s okay to keep losing, we are building “ that seems to have kept this franchise from moving forward. 

[Lurker]

25 minutes ago, K-9 said:

When you’ve been the beacon of patience and restraint all season and then use words like “urgency” to describe what the GM needs to do to improve, I can see why @plenzmd1 interpreted your post as he did. 

 

Urgency in the off-season is a hell of a lot different than urgency in season...especially when the playoffs were not a goal this year.

 

The people who wanted to bring up Olofsson in February and March, for example, were wrong, IMO.   He's a nice prospect but no way has he got the physical stature or North American experience (yet) to be a difference maker.  He had a nice run of 6 games at the end of the year, but adding him to the roster before he's physically ready would be not unlike Tage Thompson--who was (rightfully) blasted all season for being soft/weak/not ready for the NHL.

 

It takes time for draft picks and new-to-North American hockey players to mature, physically and mentally (at least those who aren't generational phenoms like Dahlin).   

 

That's why the calls for UPL to start for the Amerks are absolutely silly, IMO.    He's got a great future ahead of him.   But that can easily be screwed up by throwing him to the wolves and hoping for the best just because of frustration.