K-9 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 So, am I to understand that Housley is the only thing right with this team? As if he and the crappy players he is saddled with are part of two different equations? The players suck. Housley sucks. THE CONCEPTS ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnC said: I have stopped posting on the hockey side of this board because repeating my position becomes boring to the people receiving the posts and the person giving the post. Agree with everything you said, especially this. Repeating the same old "tastes great, less filling" ping pong is boring. This roster needs at least 4-5 new pieces to be in the playoff hunt next year. Until we get a look at what Botts has in mind, we'll just keep spinning our wheels talking about it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 9 hours ago, Buftex said: YAY! The Sabres are now only about 2 years away from being only 3-4 years away! So just behind Seattle? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 did anyone watch Nylander last night? Any observations from anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnC said: My position has not only not changed but has been hardened. The primary issue with this team is that there is a deficit of talent. The biggest problem is that we don't have enough goal scorers spread out throughout the lineup. Yesterday's game exemplifies that point. The Sabres didn't play that poorly. They can for the most part keep up with the exception of scoring goals. I challenge you and anyone else to watch the Sabres play a good team. Whether they win or lose you can not objectively conclude that they were the more talented team on the ice. To my eyes it is glaringly apparent that we are the lesser team. What's the solution? It's the same as it is for every team in the league, add talent. There is no quick fix. While you and others continue you energetic chase for your imaginary bogeyman (the coach) I will be watching to see how the young players develop and what moves the GM makes this offseason. Last offseason, the GM traded for Skinner, brought in Pilut as a free agent and made an in-season traded for Montour. I'm counting on the GM to be more active around the draft and infuse this team with more talent. I'm not as pessimistic as you and others are. The GM has a basic plan (that most teams follow when rebuilding) to develop your young players/prospects and steadily bring in players through trades and free agency to build a more competitive roster. There is no other way. I'm on board. I have stopped posting on the hockey side of this board because repeating my position becomes boring to the people receiving the posts and the person giving the post. Oh for Pete's sake. They need to gain experience and yes they need to infuse some talent, but they have gone backwards 100 mph since about mid-December. Contiuously playing crappy and making the same mistakes over and over does not equate to gaining experience. Dahlin came in as a generational talent and he played energetically like one, sprinkling in some 18 yo mistakes. Now he is asleep like the coach and is playing ok with tons of 18 yo mistakes. Eichel has now had years of this crap under his belt and probably got better coaching in pee wee. How much more of this before he demands a trade? Don't be surprised if it is trade deadline 2020. Housley is a nice guy but not a good coach. Who knows about the GM? For me, the jury is out. He is better than the last guy but so is every other professional sports GM in history. It is clear he has already lost Skinner so add some more needed talent just to get back to square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: did anyone watch Nylander last night? Any observations from anyone? I couldn’t get past the halfway point before I had to stop watching; just couldn’t take the crapfest on display. In the time I did watch, Nylander fit right in; nothing to write home about. He almost looked disinterested at times, but it’s hard to tell for sure given my unfamiliarity with his normal on ice demeanor. Dahlin was the only player worth his salt last night, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 So without Eichel in the lineup they end up with the same results as with him in the lineup. They arent that much behind the middle of the pact, lower level playoff teams talent wise on paper (or at least shouldn't be). The problem is, very few of the guys arent under achieving to where they should be. Coaching is not helping to improve them and make them better. The biggest issue is that the continue to spin their wheels when it comes to talent. They always seem to be looking to replace talent that they let go of instead of adding talent to what they already have. I dont think they would have had much of an issue salary cap wise had the kept Kane or ROR and still made the Skinner trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 32 minutes ago, K-9 said: I couldn’t get past the halfway point before I had to stop watching; just couldn’t take the crapfest on display. In the time I did watch, Nylander fit right in; nothing to write home about. He almost looked disinterested at times, but it’s hard to tell for sure given my unfamiliarity with his normal on ice demeanor. Dahlin was the only player worth his salt last night, imo. Color me shocked that a Murray draftee looks disinterested 12seconds into his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Lurker said: Agree with everything you said, especially this. Repeating the same old "tastes great, less filling" ping pong is boring. This roster needs at least 4-5 new pieces to be in the playoff hunt next year. Until we get a look at what Botts has in mind, we'll just keep spinning our wheels talking about it... You and I are in accord on the need for adding talent in order to have a competitive team. This team desperately needs to some how build a credible second line. Is it doable? It is if Mitts becomes the player that I think he will eventually become. The Sabres are in a good position with its good cap situation and extra first round pick to deal for a couple of players that can legitimately staff that second-line. I also believe that Risto is going to be dealt for some forward help. He is one of our few players who has value on the market. I would hate to se Reinhart dealt but he is another one of our few players who has value. It's not sexy or dramatic but internal improvement of our young players as much as the addition of outside help is going to be the decisive factor to our success. I have confidence in Botts that he can get this team over the hump of its current malaise of entrenched mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Sometimes when it is suggested that they ‘blow up the team’, it seems the literal meaning might please more people than the figurative meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 11 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: did anyone watch Nylander last night? Any observations from anyone? Yes. He was pretty invisible, but that's probably to be expected. I thought he made a few decisions in the O zone that looked promising, but he was soft/weak on the puck and he did a lot of standing around watching other people play instead of jumping in himself. Floated too much and probably should have skated more. In the neutral/defensive zones his play sort of lacked cohesion and I thought he didn't look good in a defensive way. It's just one game but honestly, I think he is being showcased for a trade more than played with the intention of retaining him. He was a GMTM guy don't forget. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 14 hours ago, JohnC said: You and I are in accord on the need for adding talent in order to have a competitive team. This team desperately needs to some how build a credible second line. Is it doable? It is if Mitts becomes the player that I think he will eventually become. The Sabres are in a good position with its good cap situation and extra first round pick to deal for a couple of players that can legitimately staff that second-line. I also believe that Risto is going to be dealt for some forward help. He is one of our few players who has value on the market. I would hate to se Reinhart dealt but he is another one of our few players who has value. It's not sexy or dramatic but internal improvement of our young players as much as the addition of outside help is going to be the decisive factor to our success. I have confidence in Botts that he can get this team over the hump of its current malaise of entrenched mediocrity. So develop from within but potentially trade two young guys with value and they're the only two that have value? Does not compute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: So develop from within but potentially trade two young guys with value and they're the only two that have value? Does not compute. How about using some common sense and think about what I actually said. If you have a good prospect such as Guhle and you trade that player in a deal for a young second pairing defenseman (Montour) with term left on his contract you have improved your team. In addition, the Sabres had Pilut in the system who is actually better than Guhle so you are covered at the position. If a player such as Risto can bring you a second line forward or two then even with the subtraction of a good defenseman your roster can be better. If you have assets it's smart to consider parlaying for additional assets to make your team overall better. I'm not advocating for trading any particular player. What I'm saying is that if you can make a deal that makes the team better you do it. This isn't a charity endeavor where another team is going to give you a good player for nothing. In the real world if you want something you have to give up something. If in your calculation (judgment) the deal makes you better then you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 37 minutes ago, JohnC said: How about using some common sense and think about what I actually said. Have you met crayonz? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, shrader said: Have you met crayonz? Have you met Plezmd? Some people ferociously cling to their narrative of negativity in order to avoid seeking solutions. They wear their impenetrable armor of cynicism with pride. (Not talking about Plezmd but I am talking about 4merper4mer.) The notion that making a deal that might include some young players to improve your roster is crossing a bridge too far is laughably stupid. Is 4merper4mer Crayonez? Or are they both just cut from the same cloth? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, JohnC said: How about using some common sense and think about what I actually said. If you have a good prospect such as Guhle and you trade that player in a deal for a young second pairing defenseman (Montour) with term left on his contract you have improved your team. In addition, the Sabres had Pilut in the system who is actually better than Guhle so you are covered at the position. If a player such as Risto can bring you a second line forward or two then even with the subtraction of a good defenseman your roster can be better. If you have assets it's smart to consider parlaying for additional assets to make your team overall better. I'm not advocating for trading any particular player. What I'm saying is that if you can make a deal that makes the team better you do it. This isn't a charity endeavor where another team is going to give you a good player for nothing. In the real world if you want something you have to give up something. If in your calculation (judgment) the deal makes you better then you do it. 1 1 Thats the rub..who still thinks he is a good defenseman? We need an old school GM you does not believe in Analytics and still like a "physical D Man who doles out hits"..and does not look at expected goals for and against when he is on the ice, possession numbers, high danger chances etc..all areas Risto is just plain awful. I can't see Tampa taking him....but their D is old and unsigned for next year and they are up against the cap, so maybe they would. I could see Bergevin maybe taking him. I dont know who else would..his numbers are just that bad. I say you offer Point at the $10M, which is simply two firsts, a second and a third...and structure it a 4 year deal so he is hitting UFA again at 27..if he doesn't take it at least we hurting Tampa cap. Same with Marner if that does not work with Point..if he stays put the screws to the Leafs. Enough of being friendly..and yep, you gunna have to face the music when #26 hits RFA..but this team needs is desperate..they need to do something to jump start this thing , especially if Housley starts next year behind the bench Edited March 14, 2019 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Thats the rub..who still thinks he is a good defenseman? We need an old school GM you does not believe in Analytics and still like a "physical D Man who doles out hits"..and does not look at expected goals for and against when he is on the ice, possession numbers, high danger chances etc..all areas Risto is just plain awful. I can't see Tampa taking him....but their D is old and unsigned for next year and they are up against the cap, so maybe they would. I could see Bergevin maybe taking him. I dont know who else would..his numbers are just that bad. I say you offer Point at the $10M, which is simply two firsts, a second and a third...and structure it a 4 year deal so he is hitting UFA again at 27..if he doesn't take it at least we hurting Tampa cap. Same with Marner if that does not work with Point..if he stays put the screws to the Leafs. Enough of being friendly..and yep, you gunna have to face the music when #26 hits RFA..but this team needs is desperate..they need to do something to jump start this thing , especially if Housley starts next year behind the bench Agree that Risto won’t commamd much. He’s s 4/5 defenseman in this league. But it’s his propensity for the Scandella-like boneheaded play that GMs notice most on his game tape. I can’t see JBotts offering Point or anyone else for that matter. But I’d rather have Marner if I had a choice. As great as Tavares and Matthews are, I think Marner is the true catalyst on that team. Love his game. Per the bold text and speaking of Housley behind the bench, I offer my periodic update on his record so far. Excluding the fluke 10 game streak (was that really this season)* 49/118 available points for a .415 percentage rate this season. That’s the good news. 33/88 available points since the streak, a .375 percentage rate. Which is WORSE than his NHL worst .378 for last season. Ouch. Once again, excluding the fluke streak*, since Housley has been behind the bench, we have captured 111/282 available points for a breathtaking .393 clip. Make of it what hat you will, but I submit it isn’t just the players he has/has had, especially last year when he had a superior roster. He is part of the problem. *It is important to clarify the fluke streak exclusion because Housley’s fans insist on including it in this year’s totals as they cling to the belief that getting us to .500 after being at .378 last year is some sort of accomplishment. And while certainly a part of the season’s fabric overall, it has absolutely no relevance to the current situation except to serve as a reminder of how much this team has regressed over the last three months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suorangefan4 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, K-9 said: Agree that Risto won’t commamd much. He’s s 4/5 defenseman in this league. But it’s his propensity for the Scandella-like boneheaded play that GMs notice most on his game tape. Ristolainen is a point getting defenseman. He's not the best defensively put he's consistently near the top in points. Why is Oliver Ekman-Larsson treated like one of the best defensemen in the league while being a huge minus player yet Ristolainen gets crapped on badly. I'm in favor of trading Ristolainen but I hate how people downplay his value yet act like Ekman-Larsson is worth at least three firsts. Edited March 14, 2019 by suorangefan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 51 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said: Ristolainen is a point getting defenseman. He's not the best defensively put he's consistently near the top in points. Why is Oliver Ekman-Larsson treated like one of the best defensemen in the league while being a huge minus player yet Ristolainen gets crapped on badly. I'm in favor of trading Ristolainen but I hate how people downplay his value yet act like Ekman-Larsson is worth at least three firsts. Risto is a point getting defensemen. Problem is, he’s not much of a point preventing defensemen. I like Risto as he’s one of our only players with any kind of jam in his game. And it’s unfair that he’s logged big minutes against top opponents since he arrived. Ideally, he would be paired with a more defensive oriented partner. His pairing with Scandella is not his fault, either. Ekman-Larsson is simply a better player, both offensively and defensively. Like Erik Karlsson, he drives offensive play on a shift to shift basis since he’s been in the league. Not sure he’s worth three firsts or not, but he’d fetch more than Risto at this stage. I don’t necessarily want to trade him as I think he’d be more effective paired with a better D partner and not forced to play big, key minutes every night. We screwed up his development in that regard, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, suorangefan4 said: Ristolainen is a point getting defenseman. He's not the best defensively put he's consistently near the top in points. Why is Oliver Ekman-Larsson treated like one of the best defensemen in the league while being a huge minus player yet Ristolainen gets crapped on badly. I'm in favor of trading Ristolainen but I hate how people downplay his value yet act like Ekman-Larsson is worth at least three firsts. I am not sure of his numbers, but I do know that plus /minus is just not used anymore in evaluating players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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