Buffalo Sabres & NHL 2018-19: Sabres picking 7th overall (6/21/19). Ralph Krueger hire as new head coach!

[JohnC]

People are in a state of frenzy with how things have transpired for the Sabres. Why have things seemed to have spiraled out of control? There is a reason for it that I have been pointing out for a long time. There is not enough talent on this team that relates to our ability to score. We have one dependable line that is capable of scoring. Go back and review this game. When the Sabres had a defensive lapse the other team was able to capitalize on the mistake. The Huerdeau goal with him driving from the open right side illustrates that point. The Barkov goal is another example where the opposition had a player that can convert. 

 

The Sabres had scoring chances but weren't able to take advantage of the opportunities because other than the first line the other lines are impotent. Are the Sabres giving up? I won't go that far but without question they are a deflated team. When you don't have the offensive wherewithal you are going to struggle. It doesn't matter who your coach is if your roster doesn't have enough potency throughout the lineup you are going to fail. That's the brutal reality that this team and fans are facing. 

 

Firing the HC is not going to alter the primary reason why this team is struggling. Until there is an additional infusion of talent and internal improvement the situation will not substantively change. 

[shrader]

53 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

they were done at Christmas, now they are burnt beyond recognition.

 

I am absolutely hate watching now..seeing how far and how bad they can get before something, anything, is done

 

You want an exact moment where the deflation and defeated mentality started for this team?  It's the loss to Toronto right after the streak.  They threw everything they had out there and it wasn't good enough.  That was the beginning of the end and it's that soft mentality that is the truly worrisome part.  They so badly need that grizzled vet who can also produce out there on the ice.  They need that Drury type, the mentally strong guy who can be slotted into a secondary role and thrive

[zow2]

The team is soft and has no proven coach/system to rely on when things go South.  Yes they don't score enough, and yes the D is bad at coverage,,,,,but the goaltenders the past two seasons have been really disappointing.  They stole some games in the 10 game streak but then it just stopped.

I still contend that Buffalo has more talent on their team, top to bottom, than some other clubs that are in playoff positions.  

They need to reset with a new coach.  Sorry Phil, love ya for your history while playing in Buffalo but he's not a good head coach for this team.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

@JohnC thoughts on the Sabres

 

to be fair, idt it’s as bad as many think but boy, what a disappointment.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

People are in a state of frenzy with how things have transpired for the Sabres. Why have things seemed to have spiraled out of control? There is a reason for it that I have been pointing out for a long time. There is not enough talent on this team that relates to our ability to score. We have one dependable line that is capable of scoring. Go back and review this game. When the Sabres had a defensive lapse the other team was able to capitalize on the mistake. The Huerdeau goal with him driving from the open right side illustrates that point. The Barkov goal is another example where the opposition had a player that can convert. 

 

The Sabres had scoring chances but weren't able to take advantage of the opportunities because other than the first line the other lines are impotent. Are the Sabres giving up? I won't go that far but without question they are a deflated team. When you don't have the offensive wherewithal you are going to struggle. It doesn't matter who your coach is if your roster doesn't have enough potency throughout the lineup you are going to fail. That's the brutal reality that this team and fans are facing. 

 

Firing the HC is not going to alter the primary reason why this team is struggling. Until there is an additional infusion of talent and internal improvement the situation will not substantively change. 

So, we can’t score and we have defensive lapses. Sounds like we are equally inept in both the O zone and the D zone. And regressing to boot. 

 

There is a better than even chance we won’t win any of our next six games. That would leave us with 17 games to realize that 20-25 point improvement over last year that you’ve long been predicting. They would need to capture 20 out of those remaining 34 points to do that. That’s a .588 clip. 

 

Five. Eighty. Eight. Just to finish 20 points better than last year’s last place team. 

 

Assuming they don’t do that, does your opinion of “stay the course” change at all?

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, K-9 said:

So, we can’t score and we have defensive lapses. Sounds like we are equally inept in both the O zone and the D zone. And regressing to boot. 

 

There is a better than even chance we won’t win any of our next six games. That would leave us with 17 games to realize that 20-25 point improvement over last year that you’ve long been predicting. They would need to capture 20 out of those remaining 34 points to do that. That’s a .588 clip. 

 

Five. Eighty. Eight. Just to finish 20 points better than last year’s last place team. 

 

Assuming they don’t do that, does your opinion of “stay the course” change at all?

You are misinterpreting (as are many others) what I have been saying about the team and its future. I have repeatedly stated that this team as it is constituted lacked enough talent to be a serious team. How many times have I made that point? You act as if I'm oblivious to what is so blatantly obvious. While many are chasing the bogeyman of the coach I have steadfastly believed that the core problem of this team related to its level of talent. What I have stressed is that it would be an act of futility and regression if this organization made moves during this season giving up quality assets just to be contending for a wild-card position.

 

The point I have consistently made is that it is in the offseason, especially around the draft, where more meaningful deals will be made to improve the roster. You  and some of your frenzied compatriots believe that the primary problem is the coach. I don't believe that. That is not to say that he is the long-term answer as the coach but the heart of the problem revolves around the inadequate talent-level. 

45 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

@JohnC thoughts on the Sabres

 

to be fair, idt it’s as bad as many think but boy, what a disappointment.

If this dog has a lot of pee in him he can put out the fire. 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Sabres GM Botterill: Housley's job is safe
 

[Jauronimo]

This team has zero identity.  They aren't fast, they aren't tough, they aren't solid defensively, they aren't going to burn you in transition, and they aren't going to force you into mistakes with pressure.  They control the puck pretty well and have a decent neutral zone game but they have a hard time getting the puck back after they lose it.

 

There are some guys on this roster who might pan out and turn into something but history suggests don't get your hopes up.  Looking at you Tage and Mittelstadt.  We have our familiar try hard midgets like Sheary who is filling the Gerbe role nicely and ERod who will be playing the part of Ennis but with far less production. 

 

Ristolainen has an incredible -23 plus/minus.  I don't have a point here, I'm just impressed.  Sobotka somehow is -14 which can only be explained by his increased minutes of late.  Good call, Phil.

 

 

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are misinterpreting (as are many others) what I have been saying about the team and its future. I have repeatedly stated that this team as it is constituted lacked enough talent to be a serious team. How many times have I made that point? You act as if I'm oblivious to what is so blatantly obvious. While many are chasing the bogeyman of the coach I have steadfastly believed that the core problem of this team related to its level of talent. What I have stressed is that it would be an act of futility and regression if this organization made moves during this season giving up quality assets just to be contending for a wild-card position.

 

The point I have consistently made is that it is in the offseason, especially around the draft, where more meaningful deals will be made to improve the roster. You  and some of your frenzied compatriots believe that the primary problem is the coach. I don't believe that. That is not to say that he is the long-term answer as the coach but the heart of the problem revolves around the inadequate talent-level. 

If this dog has a lot of pee in him he can put out the fire. 

We’ve all said a lot of things repeatedly around here.

 

You’ve often mentioned a 20-25 point improvement over last season as a positive step forward. My question was a simple one: if they fail to reach that modest goal, does it change your opinion at all? 

 

Also, is it possible for a coach to show ineptitude even if he is saddled with inadequate talent? I thinks it’s a question worth asking. 

[K-9]

16 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Sabres GM Botterill: Housley's job is safe
 

No surprise there. Housley was JBott’s hire, so firing him would be an admission that he screwed the pooch on the coaching hire. 

 

This team has crashed and burned in an unprecedented fashion it its history. Tough sell for the fan base to maintain the faith after this. 

 

There will be enormous pressure going into next season. Seeing how this team responds to pressure, and knowing that half the roster needs to be blown up, it looks like another long season with no playoffs again next year. 

 

 

[BillsFan4]

3 hours ago, shrader said:

 

You want an exact moment where the deflation and defeated mentality started for this team?  It's the loss to Toronto right after the streak.  They threw everything they had out there and it wasn't good enough.  That was the beginning of the end and it's that soft mentality that is the truly worrisome part.  They so badly need that grizzled vet who can also produce out there on the ice.  They need that Drury type, the mentally strong guy who can be slotted into a secondary role and thrive

 

I have said the same thing for years. I feel we need that well respected and accomplished veteran. I feel that’s been an issue for years. 

 

I always think back to a quote eichel gave in 2016. He said “if you are not performing (on the ice), who’s going to follow you?”. (There was speculation at the time that he was referring to josh gorges, a vocal veteran “leader”, but I’m not sure if that’s true).

 

Buffalo hasn’t had that type of veteran since the rebuild started...

 

Gionta was probably the closest, but he was so far past his prime. ROR was meant to be that leader but as he said himself, he wasn’t equipped to handle a leadership role in Buffalo. 

 

Everyone else has pretty much much just been washed up veterans or bottom 6/bottom pair type players.

 

Botterill has done done a little better, bringing in guys like Skinner and Sheary but more are obviously needed. 

 

Really though, The young guys have pretty much had the run of things since the rebuild started.... that’s what happens when you trade away every decent veteran player in the team in the span of a couple/few years and force young guys into the lineup that aren’t fully ready.

It also totally destroyed any trace of a winning culture that was once here. 

It can be extremely hard to pull out of that and rebuild that winning culture (look at Edmonton. Even a well respected veteran cup winning coach like Ken Hitchcock is at his wits end trying to change the culture in Edmonton. We’d is he actually almost quit a few weeks ago).;

 

There actually aren’t many teams (I can think of) that tanked as hard and as fast as buffalo did. The Penguins for Mario Lemieux (and iirc it took them until Lemieux’s 7th year to make the playoffs). 

But There are teams that have gone through full rebuilds like us and it took them many years to pull out of it. Our timeline is actually pretty similar so far when comparing to teams that went complete rebuild, not just retooled. 

 

 

 

 

 

Im not as convinced as others that bringing in a new coach is going to just suddenly fix these player problems. We have seen the same player fragility issues continue to pop up with 2 different coaches and more than a half dozen assistant coaches. A coach can’t play the game for the players.

Bylsma didn’t have those issues as head coach of Pittsburgh. Housley had no issue getting the all-star Nashville defense to follow his instruction. In fact, they revered him. 

 

When does the blame get turned to the players? 

 

And To be fair, those fragility issues do seem to have improved this year. It’s obviously still an issue and has been starting to pop up a bit more recently  but I feel that we have seen legitimate improvement this season. They aren’t just quitting when they get down by a goal or two. They usually battle right to the end of a game. 

 

[Boca BIlls]

1 hour ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Sabres GM Botterill: Housley's job is safe
 

That sucks... Guess both need to be fired then.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I have said the same thing for years. I feel we need that well respected and accomplished veteran. I feel that’s been an issue for years. 

 

I always think back to a quote eichel gave in 2016. He said “if you are not performing (on the ice), who’s going to follow you?”. (There was speculation at the time that he was referring to josh gorges, a vocal veteran “leader”, but I’m not sure if that’s true).

 

Buffalo hasn’t had that type of veteran since the rebuild started...

 

Gionta was probably the closest, but he was so far past his prime. ROR was meant to be that leader but as he said himself, he wasn’t equipped to handle a leadership role in Buffalo. 

 

Everyone else has pretty much much just been washed up veterans or bottom 6/bottom pair type players.

 

Botterill has done done a little better, bringing in guys like Skinner and Sheary but more are obviously needed. 

 

Really though, The young guys have pretty much had the run of things since the rebuild started.... that’s what happens when you trade away every decent veteran player in the team in the span of a couple/few years and force young guys into the lineup that aren’t fully ready.

It also totally destroyed any trace of a winning culture that was once here. 

It can be extremely hard to pull out of that and rebuild that winning culture (look at Edmonton. Even a well respected veteran cup winning coach like Ken Hitchcock is at his wits end trying to change the culture in Edmonton. We’d is he actually almost quit a few weeks ago).;

 

There actually aren’t many teams (I can think of) that tanked as hard and as fast as buffalo did. The Penguins for Mario Lemieux (and iirc it took them until Lemieux’s 7th year to make the playoffs). 

But There are teams that have gone through full rebuilds like us and it took them many years to pull out of it. Our timeline is actually pretty similar so far when comparing to teams that went complete rebuild, not just retooled. 

 

 

 

 

 

Im not as convinced as others that bringing in a new coach is going to just suddenly fix these player problems. We have seen the same player fragility issues continue to pop up with 2 different coaches and more than a half dozen assistant coaches. A coach can’t play the game for the players.

Bylsma didn’t have those issues as head coach of Pittsburgh. Housley had no issue getting the all-star Nashville defense to follow his instruction. In fact, they revered him. 

 

When does the blame get turned to the players? 

 

And To be fair, those fragility issues do seem to have improved this year. It’s obviously still an issue and has been starting to pop up a bit more recently  but I feel that we have seen legitimate improvement this season. They aren’t just quitting when they get down by a goal or two. They usually battle right to the end of a game. 

 

Per the bold text, we just should have stuck with Rolston, then. This would have been his magical 7th year. 

 

All of the points you raise about poor players and poor veteran leadership are valid and are key reason why this era of suckitude has lasted so long. 

 

We will forever disagree about Housley’s ability as a head coach. Perhaps he is best suited to an assistant’s job. If anyone wants to point to examples of his head coaching a acumen, I’m all ears. But this idea of it taking good players to show good head coaching ability is a crock. There are traits good coaches need to exhibit, regardless of the talent at his disposal. 

[shrader]

22 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold text, we just should have stuck with Rolston, then. This would have been his magical 7th year. 

 

All of the points you raise about poor players and poor veteran leadership are valid and are key reason why this era of suckitude has lasted so long. 

 

We will forever disagree about Housley’s ability as a head coach. Perhaps he is best suited to an assistant’s job. If anyone wants to point to examples of his head coaching a acumen, I’m all ears. But this idea of it taking good players to show good head coaching ability is a crock. There are traits good coaches need to exhibit, regardless of the talent at his disposal. 

 

Or maybe he is a better fit with the junior program where he originally found his success.  There's no shame in that, some guys may just fit so much better teaching at that level.  That's why I'll be very curious to see where Dave Hakstol settles in after his firing in Philly.  His program was an absolute beast during his time at North Dakota.  I don't know what jobs are available, but the schools should be lining up for his services.

[K-9]

40 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

Or maybe he is a better fit with the junior program where he originally found his success.  There's no shame in that, some guys may just fit so much better teaching at that level.  That's why I'll be very curious to see where Dave Hakstol settles in after his firing in Philly.  His program was an absolute beast during his time at North Dakota.  I don't know what jobs are available, but the schools should be lining up for his services.

I agree with this. Some guys just do better at different levels. No shame in that as you said. And great, HOF players, seldom make good coaches, let alone cup winners. @plenzmd1made a great point in a post last night; that perhaps Housley has quietly quit on this group rather than vice versa. Given how great he was as a player and given his success with one of the best D corps in the league in Nashville, maybe he's reached his limit. 

 

Regardless, we aren't going anywhere this year or next year with him at the helm, given the sheer amount of roster turnover that needs to occur. 

[plenzmd1]

Okay, just to clarify...can we all agree I was right to scream "Fire Housley" 40 minutes into the season?????

 

This after the second period of Game 1 on October 4th

 

 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Okay, just to clarify...can we all agree I was right to scream "Fire Housley" 40 minutes into the season?????

 

This after the second period of Game 1 on October 4th

 

 

I was willing to see where we were on Halloween. If we were within the magical four points, I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt. And then the streak happened and that changed the equation for everyone. 

 

But, as it turned out, it was fools' gold. And we all should have looked more closely at the nature of that streak at the time, but we wanted, NEEDED, to believe and nobody wanted to be that stick in the mud. 

 

In many ways, I think that streak was the worst thing that could have happened to the hearts and minds of this loyal fan base. I think we will see that manifested when the crowds start to dwindle and what crowd does show up rains down the much deserved boos. And screw everyone involved with this team if they don't like it. I will NOT have my loyalty questioned by this group of losers. Enough is enough. Eight year rebuilds are NOT the norm. 

 

We'll see how patient Botterill really is down the stretch. Good chance we will see him slam doors and storm out of the press box like he did last year. 

[BillsFan4]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold text, we just should have stuck with Rolston, then. This would have been his magical 7th year. 

 

All of the points you raise about poor players and poor veteran leadership are valid and are key reason why this era of suckitude has lasted so long. 

 

We will forever disagree about Housley’s ability as a head coach. Perhaps he is best suited to an assistant’s job. If anyone wants to point to examples of his head coaching a acumen, I’m all ears. But this idea of it taking good players to show good head coaching ability is a crock. There are traits good coaches need to exhibit, regardless of the talent at his disposal. 

Rolston sucked. Personally, I think we should have stuck with Lindy Ruff for the beginning of the rebuild. Players certainly wouldn’t have been running the show with him in charge...

 

 

As far as housley, as I said before I am undecided on housley. I certainly don’t have the level of passionate hate that many have for him. I think he’s done some good and some bad. Time will tell. 

 

I don’t get as worked up over some some of the lineup choices (Sobotka, Scandella for ex) as others. Every coach has their preferred veteran players and every fan has their issues with their coaches player usage and lineup decisions.

 

For example, Babcock rode Matt Hunwick for an entire season in Toronto. He spent 3/4 of the year on the top pairing. He was 2nd on the entire team in ice time per game. 

Josh Leivo could never get out of babcock’s doghouse and eventually was traded to Vancouver (and is doing pretty decent there). I remember there were issues with Morgan Rielly not getting enough PP time, too. 

 

Im not saying I agree with all of housley’s (and Botterill’s, if Harrington is to be believed) lineup choices or line combinations. I don’t. But I can’t remember ever having a coach or GM that I didn’t complain about this stuff. It’s just something I’ve accpeted that I will never fully agree with.

 

 

 

As far as the play of the team, I honestly see improvements compared to 2015/16/17.

There are obviously still many things that need improvement but some of the areas I’ve noticed improvement - 

 

 

- our breakouts are miles better

- entries into the o zone are better

- they cycle the puck in the o zone much better

- while work still needs to be done, they are also doing a better job creating scoring chances than in previous years, and starting to score more goals on a more consistent basis (again, still work to be done obviously)

- they are actually playing an exciting brand of hockey on many night

- player buy-in is much better than previous years

- they are not hanging their heads and quitting when they get down by a goal or two (most nights, anyway)

- they’ve been competitive in almost every game this year

- our starts to the game have definitely been improved compared to previous years (remember how common a complaint it was that they “didn’t show up for puck drop”?)

 

 

 

I have watched some players making forward progress in their development, too.

 

- Reinhart has taken a big step forward starting in the 2nd half of last season and continuing this season. He is really blossoming into the player we hoped he would be and IMO has really been shining on the 2nd line since housley moved him there. We are seeing him carry the play himself more than I have in any other season. 

- Eichel has taken a big step forward this year. Whatever was said to him has really had an effect. It’s noticable in everything: from his play on the ice to his on ice demeanor and body language to his post game interviews. He’s playing a 200ft game. The maddening floating around has greatly improved. His body language and on ice/bench demeanor is much better. His interviews are much better. etc etc. 

- Dahlin is getting better and his big mistakes are showing some improvements

- Rodriguez has taken a step forward in his development

- Thompson has shown improvement from the beginning of the year

- Pilut is improving with every week that passes 

- even guys who have been here a while like Ristolainen, Bogosian, McCabe are all showing improvements this year. 

 

 

Again, there is obviously still a ton of work to be done, but I do see a general improvement in the team. It just hasn’t been consistent yet. 

 

Really, one of their biggest issues this year has been mistakes (a lot of them by young guys, but many are making their share). Just a few poor decisions or momentary lapses in coverage in a game have killed this team. They make a mistake and it ends up in the back of our net. That gives me some hope because I feel like that is an area that can potentially be improved upon without changing coaches. The coaches are continually showing the players their mistakes and working on them (though there’s only so much time they can during the season). I don’t think it’s impossible that it’s an area that we will see slow improvements in. We have seen the improvements show up for periods or entire games. It’s just not consistent yet. and if they can eliminate some of those bigger mistakes and lapses, they will see it show up in the win-loss column IMO. 

 

 

 

I am am not saying I am sold on housley or Botterill. I still have many questions. I am just pointing out some of the good I see. 

 

Honestly, I don’t think the Sabres are at the point where an experienced veteran coach is required to come in and put them over the top. I think they are likely still at least 2 seasons away from that. 

 

I think ive also accepted the fact that the rebuild timeline was somewhat reset with the hiring of Botterill. For better or worse he seems to be a patient GM taking a more patient approach at building the roster. 

[BillsFan4]

Here is the full interview with botterill from today -

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/02-20-jason-botterill

 

Worth a listen. He addresses a number of questions 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

We’ve all said a lot of things repeatedly around here.

 

You’ve often mentioned a 20-25 point improvement over last season as a positive step forward. My question was a simple one: if they fail to reach that modest goal, does it change your opinion at all? 

 

Also, is it possible for a coach to show ineptitude even if he is saddled with inadequate talent? I thinks it’s a question worth asking. 

If the Sabres are 16 or 18 pts better and fall short of the 20 or plus points improvement what does it matter? To bluntly answer your question: will not meeting the benchmark change my position. I say absolutely not!  You are missing the point in interpreting what I have incessantly stated. The critical issue is the current talent level of this roster and what needs to be done to add to it. I'm not fixated as much on making the playoffs as some are. I'm more interested in to what extent are the younger players getting better. I'm also very interested in the improvement of the prospects in Rochester. 

 

While you and some of your fellow zealots want Housley dispatched I don't. My position is that this franchise has gone through too many staffing changes that it has destabilized an already unstable franchise. The coaching issue can be delayed because that isn't the primary issue bedeviling this franchise. The core problem is the lack of talent. Address that issue and then address the coaching issue. What I'm saying is that your bogeyman isn't my bogeyman i.e.. Housley.