Nextmanup Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: Sooo..no watch tonight..thank goodness..Housley ??????????? I'm not a big supporter or hater of Housley. I'd have no problem if he was fired tomorrow. BUT that is not going to solve our problems. We don't have enough good players and the good ones we do have are very inconsistent. The team overall is soft, and lacks tenacity.
plenzmd1 Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Nextmanup said: I'm not a big supporter or hater of Housley. I'd have no problem if he was fired tomorrow. BUT that is not going to solve our problems. We don't have enough good players and the good ones we do have are very inconsistent. The team overall is soft, and lacks tenacity. i guess what bothers me so is the ability of this team to look they did the other night against the Isle, and then apparently look so atrocious one night later. I get that happens over the grind of the NHL season..but not near as much typically as it does with this squad...and that is on coaching to me.
mead107 Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: i guess what bothers me so is the ability of this team to look they did the other night against the Isle, and then apparently look so atrocious one night later. I get that happens over the grind of the NHL season..but not near as much typically as it does with this squad...and that is on coaching to me. So, throw your hat ? in the ring and become a coach instead of sitting home doing nothing ????????????????????
plenzmd1 Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, mead107 said: So, throw your hat ? in the ring and become a coach instead of sitting home doing nothing ???????????????????? I will remind you young man that I have gone back to the ranks of gainfully employed much to my chagrin. I wanted nothin to do with it. Someone else whom I am related to by marriage suggested retirement was not suiting me well! and if Housley retires, I will gladly re-retire as well’ Edited February 16, 2019 by plenzmd1 1
Lurker Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 The roster is not good enough. That's been apparent for months, but Bots seems committed to his slow roll, "develop the prospects as Job One" plan. Housley realizes it, and the team appears to as well. The players are coming to the realization that help is not on the way this season. And their inconsistent efforts, especially against physical, forechecking teams, are reflecting that mindset. Those three first round picks and the kids in the pipeline better turn out to be quality NH-ers in the next few years, because that's what the franchise is betting on...
JohnC Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lurker said: The roster is not good enough. That's been apparent for months, but Bots seems committed to his slow roll, "develop the prospects as Job One" plan. Housley realizes it, and the team appears to as well. The players are coming to the realization that help is not on the way this season. And their inconsistent efforts, especially against physical, forechecking teams, are reflecting that mindset. Those three first round picks and the kids in the pipeline better turn out to be quality NH-ers in the next few years, because that's what the franchise is betting on... I agree with you that the roster is not good enough. I have been saying that for a long time. Where the team is located in the standings is a reflection of the talent level. Where I disagree with you is that I don't believe that our GM is over-rating his talent level. The obvious follow-up question is what do you do to address that talent deficit? Our roster has four rookies on it: (Dahlin, Mitts, Tage (technically not a rookie) and CJ Smith. That's a lot of young players getting substantial playing time on a NHL team. There are players in the pipeline. They will be more ready next year or a year later. There are many people loudly calling for trades. What I say to those calling for trades is that at this stage of the season you are not going to get meaningful help unless you are willing to give up valuable assets. What is to be gained for a marginal playoff team to make such a deal? If there is to be a Skinner caliber deal it will be done in the offseason around the draft. More players will be available in deals at that time. There is no magical solution to our struggles due to our lack of talent. The primary issue isn't the coach. It is what he has to work with. If you put things in perspective and compare where we are now compared to last year it is fair to say that we have made a major stride. Contrary to the despair exhibited by many the trajectory is up, not down. It's going to take time. Either you accept that brutal reality or you get frustrated. The course that the GM has set is sound. It's not a status quo approach as many have described it to be. It is the right approach and only smart approach to take. I strongly support it. For those voices who are mostly blaming Housley for the team's standing I say you are wrong. The issue is talent. We simply don't have enough of it at this time. Getting another coach next year will not advance our team as much as it would set us back. This constant back and forth and changing of staffs is more detrimental then helpful. We need more continuity there less instability there.
Boca BIlls Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: How is it a team like the Islanders can turn it around in one year yet the Sabres consistently suck year in and year out? Bad coaching, GM.
4merper4mer Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, JohnC said: I agree with you that the roster is not good enough. I have been saying that for a long time. Where the team is located in the standings is a reflection of the talent level. Where I disagree with you is that I don't believe that our GM is over-rating his talent level. The obvious follow-up question is what do you do to address that talent deficit? Our roster has four rookies on it: (Dahlin, Mitts, Tage (technically not a rookie) and CJ Smith. That's a lot of young players getting substantial playing time on a NHL team. There are players in the pipeline. They will be more ready next year or a year later. There are many people loudly calling for trades. What I say to those calling for trades is that at this stage of the season you are not going to get meaningful help unless you are willing to give up valuable assets. What is to be gained for a marginal playoff team to make such a deal? If there is to be a Skinner caliber deal it will be done in the offseason around the draft. More players will be available in deals at that time. There is no magical solution to our struggles due to our lack of talent. The primary issue isn't the coach. It is what he has to work with. If you put things in perspective and compare where we are now compared to last year it is fair to say that we have made a major stride. Contrary to the despair exhibited by many the trajectory is up, not down. It's going to take time. Either you accept that brutal reality or you get frustrated. The course that the GM has set is sound. It's not a status quo approach as many have described it to be. It is the right approach and only smart approach to take. I strongly support it. For those voices who are mostly blaming Housley for the team's standing I say you are wrong. The issue is talent. We simply don't have enough of it at this time. Getting another coach next year will not advance our team as much as it would set us back. This constant back and forth and changing of staffs is more detrimental then helpful. We need more continuity there less instability there. OMG with this. This team is playing terribly. Although not overloaded with talent they have enough pieces to not look completely inept and disengaged in 50% of the games. This "trajectory" puts them in the playoffs in 15 years. Seattle will have 2 cups by then.
BillsFan4 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, ScottLaw said: How is it a team like the Islanders can turn it around in one year yet the Sabres consistently suck year in and year out? I’m sure that hiring Lou and Trotz played a big part in the Islanders turn around. They are both very well respected long time NHL veterans with tons of credibility (Lou is a hall of fame GM and Trotz just won the Cup) and got complete buy in from every player. But you are not comparing apples and apples IMO. The isles had a down season last year but they just made the playoffs in back to back years a couple seasons ago (2014/15 and 2015/16) and even though they missed in 2016/17 they still had a damn good record (41-29-12 with 94 points, which usually is god enough for the playoffs in many years). They also have more veteran players as well as actual NHL depth on their team. In that same timespan, buffalo had 2 last place finishes, a 5th last finish and an 8th last finish. The NYI aren’t trying to climb out of the same hole Buffalo is. I dont know if some fans fully realize how significant of a tear down/rebuild buffalo did. There aren’t many teams (at least in more recent NHL history) that have torn down a team as quickly as the Sabres did or gutted it as completely. I mean, our talent level was actually less than some expansion teams (there were nights many AHL teams could have kicked the Sabres asses)... Those tank teams set NHL records for how awful their play was. Edited February 16, 2019 by BillsFan4 3
JohnC Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: I’m sure that hiring Lou and Trotz played a big part in the Islanders turn around. They are both very well respected long time NHL veterans with tons of credibility (Lou is a hall of fame GM and Trotz just won the Cup) and got complete buy in from every player. But you are not comparing apples and apples IMO. The isles had a down season last year but they just made the playoffs in back to back years a couple seasons ago (2014/15 and 2015/16) and even though they missed in 2016/17 they still had a damn good record (41-29-12 with 94 points, which usually is god enough for the playoffs in many years). They also have more veteran players as well as actual NHL depth on their team. In that same timespan, buffalo had 2 last place finishes, a 5th last finish and an 8th last finish. The NYI aren’t trying to climb out of the same hole Buffalo is. I dont know if some fans fully realize how significant of a tear down/rebuild buffalo did. There aren’t many teams (at least in more recent NHL history) that have torn down a team as quickly as the Sabres did or gutted it as completely. I mean, our talent level was actually less than some expansion teams (there were nights many AHL teams could have kicked the Sabres asses)... Those tank teams set NHL records for how awful their play was. Terrific post. The Islanders have had a legitimate good NHL roster for the past number of years. The Sabres earned 62 points last year. They were closer to being an AHL caliber of team than an authentic NHL caliber of team. It's not unreasonable to project that the Sabres should be somewhere in the range between 20-25 points better this season. As I stated in a prior post we have 6 basically rookies getting extended playing time this year. That is a lot of developing players on a NHL roster. And without question that is a major step in the right direction. Our GM made two significant acquisitions last year without giving up much. Skinner was the most impacting acquisition that was brought on without giving up much. Also, the GM was able to sign Pilut as a free agency pickup without giving up anything. If next offseason the GM could make a Skinner type of deal and a few other smaller deals that will improve the roster it will increase the pace of us moving up the ranks. When all is said and done the most contributing factor for this team to get better is the internal improvement of its young players. It's not a quick process by any means. For those who are disgruntled with this approach I say tough! There is no other better way. 2
BillsFan4 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Posted February 16, 2019 https://buffalonews.com/2019/02/16/buffalo-sabres-new-jersey-devils-jason-pominville-phil-housley-conor-sheary-nhl-news/ good article by Lance Lysowski on the Buffalo News. I’ve enjoyed reading/following his work so far. Quote The game symbolized two steps back for a team that seemed to have finally embraced Housley's plea for better defensive play. The postgame message was not unfamiliar to the Sabres. They knew precisely what went wrong, but the team has failed to produce any semblance of consistency. One game of outworking an opponent is typically followed by the careless defensive mishaps that have resulted in a negative-13 goal differential. In Housley's mind, the Sabres are at their best when they are limiting an opponent in the defensive zone, quickly reloading to begin a breakout and cycling the puck with physical forechecking. He also wants shots on net with traffic in front of the goalie. It's not a unique recipe. Quote Players have struggled to explain why the Sabres continue to revert back to bad habits. Some have blamed inexperience -- much of the roster is unfamiliar with playing meaningful hockey in February -- while others have downplayed the team's defensive struggles at times. Quote Buffalo has lacked attention to detail, which has led to disjointed play in all three zones. That fact was pointed out during another uncomfortable video session with coaches Saturday morning. "The most important thing is when we watched video today is guys are taking full advantage of that and learning from it," Conor Sheary said. "It’s a little bit of a slap in the face when you’re getting called out in video [sessions], but it’s for all the right reasons. If guys can learn from that and see other guys’ mistakes and not make the same ones again that will be important."
Nextmanup Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 10 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: i guess what bothers me so is the ability of this team to look they did the other night against the Isle, and then apparently look so atrocious one night later. I get that happens over the grind of the NHL season..but not near as much typically as it does with this squad...and that is on coaching to me. Don't disagree, but we have had several coaches since the team was last good, and the bad tendencies that plague the team now have been present with different coaches too, including a Cup winner. Our defensive corps is terrible; Risto was supposed to be a phenom but he is actually very average if not below avg. in terms of advanced defensive stats. Dahlin is still a baby, and though he's going to be very good, he has a lot of up and down nights and struggles at times. Offensively, we have a ton of passengers who contribute nothing toward scoring. Okposo is on the top of that list for me. Jack is a very solid player, but only when he is in the mood to play; he is inconsistent and fails to play at the height of his ability on many nights. Rheinhart is always going to be a disappointment for me; he is simply not good enough to be thought of as a prize for tanking an entire season of dreadful hockey. Because we did that and acquired him in that manner, I think a lot of fans have a skewed view of him. Skinner has been a delight, but there is only one of him on the team. We are at least 3 or 4 major, contributing players away from being a really solid team... Housley's on-ice personnel decisions have been crazy much of the time and I don't really like his player usage. I don't think he's the right answer, but I don't think eliminating him tomorrow is going to improve things either. Unfortunately, Botterill has assembled (for the moment at least) a lot of soft players who do not play the sort of hockey I like or which wins playoff series. This rebuild is 8 years old and it's not really going well with no clear end in sight. 7 hours ago, Lurker said: The roster is not good enough. That's been apparent for months, but Bots seems committed to his slow roll, "develop the prospects as Job One" plan. Housley realizes it, and the team appears to as well. The players are coming to the realization that help is not on the way this season. And their inconsistent efforts, especially against physical, forechecking teams, are reflecting that mindset. Those three first round picks and the kids in the pipeline better turn out to be quality NH-ers in the next few years, because that's what the franchise is betting on... The problem is we have been relying on "the new kids not yet on board" for quite a while now! It's always "look to the draft" and 18 year old kids who might be 5 years away from being quality NHL starters. This whole thing wasn't started last year! We have been a bad team for a very long time now. The cavalry should have arrived by now, but it hasn't. 1
JohnC Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Unfortunately, Botterill has assembled (for the moment at least) a lot of soft players who do not play the sort of hockey I like or which wins playoff series. This rebuild is 8 years old and it's not really going well with no clear end in sight. The problem is we have been relying on "the new kids not yet on board" for quite a while now! It's always "look to the draft" and 18 year old kids who might be 5 years away from being quality NHL starters. This whole thing wasn't started last year! We have been a bad team for a very long time now. The cavalry should have arrived by now, but it hasn't.[/ When the owner bought his pro teams he didn't know what he was doing. It took him a few years before he brought in some capable people in McDermott and Beane to run the Bills. The same mistake was made in hiring the wrong people to run his hockey team. You can't fault the current operators for the mistakes of their predecessors that they are now addressing. The same cycle of foolishness occurred when he bought the hockey franchise. The LaFontaine fiasco still hasn't been explained. What the enthusiastic but clueless owner did when he bought the team is that he spent like a drunken sailor for players with extended terms that weren't good. Then he brought in the bombastic Murray who created a lot of activity for little to show for it. Botterill is in his second year. It makes no sense to attach the failures of the prior regimes to him. What he is doing now is addressing personnel issues that were plaguing this team but were transacted before he got here. My main point here is if you want to criticize his personnel moves that is fair game. But to saddle him with the failures of the past before he got here is not fair.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnC said: When the owner bought his pro teams he didn't know what he was doing. It took him a few years before he brought in some capable people in McDermott and Beane to run the Bills. The same mistake was made in hiring the wrong people to run his hockey team. You can't fault the current operators for the mistakes of their predecessors that they are now addressing. The same cycle of foolishness occurred when he bought the hockey franchise. The LaFontaine fiasco still hasn't been explained. What the enthusiastic but clueless owner did when he bought the team is that he spent like a drunken sailor for players with extended terms that weren't good. Then he brought in the bombastic Murray who created a lot of activity for little to show for it. Botterill is in his second year. It makes no sense to attach the failures of the prior regimes to him. What he is doing now is addressing personnel issues that were plaguing this team but were transacted before he got here. My main point here is if you want to criticize his personnel moves that is fair game. But to saddle him with the failures of the past before he got here is not fair. I have a bigger problem with Housley than Botterill.
bbb Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 2 hours ago, JohnC said: When the owner bought his pro teams he didn't know what he was doing. It took him a few years before he brought in some capable people in McDermott and Beane to run the Bills. The same mistake was made in hiring the wrong people to run his hockey team. You can't fault the current operators for the mistakes of their predecessors that they are now addressing. The same cycle of foolishness occurred when he bought the hockey franchise. The LaFontaine fiasco still hasn't been explained. What the enthusiastic but clueless owner did when he bought the team is that he spent like a drunken sailor for players with extended terms that weren't good. Then he brought in the bombastic Murray who created a lot of activity for little to show for it. Botterill is in his second year. It makes no sense to attach the failures of the prior regimes to him. What he is doing now is addressing personnel issues that were plaguing this team but were transacted before he got here. My main point here is if you want to criticize his personnel moves that is fair game. But to saddle him with the failures of the past before he got here is not fair. Bold statement. 3
JohnC Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, bbb said: Bold statement. I don't understand your response. What is the bold statement? What do you disagree with?
JohnC Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: I have a bigger problem with Housley than Botterill. You have the same problem with the coach that a lot of others have. I'm not saying he is the long-term solution as a coach. I can't really make a declarative judgment on him until he has a fuller roster to work with. What I can say about the issue of the coach is that it would be a mistake to replace him at this point and then start the cycle of again of having another coach taking the reigns. My feeling is that he should be given more time and a better roster to work with before making a determination of his status. In my opinion this churning of staff would be more detrimental that beneficial.
bbb Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, JohnC said: I don't understand your response. What is the bold statement? What do you disagree with? Your entire is post is bolded. 3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: https://buffalonews.com/2019/02/16/buffalo-sabres-new-jersey-devils-jason-pominville-phil-housley-conor-sheary-nhl-news/ good article by Lance Lysowski on the Buffalo News. I’ve enjoyed reading/following his work so far. The News is so much better after they drained the swamp.
JohnC Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, bbb said: Your entire is post is bolded. I didn't put it in bold print. Or deliberately do it. For some inexplicable reason it sometimes comes out that way. I can candidly say that I am not a bolder. 1 1
4merper4mer Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: I have a bigger problem with Housley than Botterill. I agree but Bott has to have higher expectations of playoff spot Hannah we'll make it in 5 years. They are such a mess on the ice though. That has to be addressed.
Recommended Posts