BillsFan4 Posted May 15, 2019 Author Posted May 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: I think what is broken is Botterill. He has done a very poor job so far. He traded Ryan O'Reilly for basically scraps. A trade that was widely criticized when it was made. The pick they will get for O'Reilly will be close in value to the pick they gave up for in acquiring Skinner. Berglund who retired mid-season and Sobotka were vastly overvalued by Botterill and instead of providing veteran depth like Botterill had expected, the were both net negatives. Sobotka had some the worst advanced stats this past season. Tage Thompson who was about the 5th best prospect in the Blues organization, Thomas, Dunn, etc, I would say is unlikely at this point to develop into a top 6 forward. He may have a hard time sticking in the NHL all together. So you basically gave up one of the top 3 two way centers in the league for a late first round pick and a average prospect. Not a blue chipper at all. That is just terrible asset management. If he was mandated by ownership to make a move before the bonus kicked in that is one thing, and we have a whole other problem we didn't think we would have with the Pegulas at the helm. If there was no mandate, it is hard to have any confidence at all in him going forward. It is an all time bad Sabres trade. Think of it this way, If we don't re-sign Skinner, we basically gave up almost all the value from pick we received in the O'Reilly trade. How does this look: TO Buffalo: 1 year of Jeff Skinner where you don't make the playoffs 29th overall pick in 2019 Thompson Berglung Sobotka To other teams: Ryan O'Reilly 36th overall pick in 2019 3rd round pick in 2020 Cliff Pu Botterill's handling of Skinner was another one. I am always in favor of paying guys right away when you trade for them. Good Gm's do it all the time with guys they trade for and have one year left on their contract. If you go without signing them it is guaranteed that you will pay more in the future. Skinner has been a pretty consistent scorer and we should have got a deal done right away. The market at that time was 7 years, $7 million per for a player of his caliber. That is what Kane got. Botterill waited and waited and couldn't make it happen. Now you are looking at an 8 year $8-9 million deal to keep him. If he walks, it will be a like a mini Briere/Drury and the Sabres will look foolish. If he stays, you just payed an absolute premium to keep him. If Botterill knew he wasn't close to a deal, he should have traded him at the deadline. Teams were giving up firsts this year and we would have had a nice return. Of course Botterill would have been the one negotiating, so maybe we wouldn't have. Then there are the stupid add-ons like we can't trade Matt Hunwick, or we will have to give up more. Seriously WTF was that? Matt freaking Hunwick. Also the insanely stupid Reinhart bridge deal that will end up costing us probably around 2-3 million more in cap space for what were suppose to be the cup window years lmao. If we do re-sign Skinner, you will have to give Reinhart more in two years. I think Botts is in over his head and should have stayed an assistant. I have no confidence in the guy. The ROR trade looks terrible right now. I won’t defend it. But Thompson was their 3rd best prospect IMO, if you don’t count the most recent draft that had just happened a week ago. It was Thomas, Kyrou and then Thompson (dunn wasn’t a prospect anymore). I too would have likes to sign Skinner right away but it was reported that he wasn’t ready to negotiate a contract. He wanted to see what buffalo was like and how he fit (etc). We have no idea at what point he became open to negotiating, but it was reported that negotiations started around the all-star break (or shortly after) and that both parties felt good about getting an extension done eventually. So you can’t blame Botts for not trading him at the deadline. That’s not the best strategy to further negotiations. The Sabres were still technically fighting for a wildcard spot, too. Plus, Skinner has a full no movement clause so he fully controlled the situation (That’s how he ended up getting traded here for so cheap in the first place). There were reports (from Jeremy White’s secret Sabres source iirc, so not the most reliable) that Skinner was originally asking for $9+M, as well. If that’s the case you can’t blame Botterill for not signing him. Skinner’s great but he’s not worth $9M a year. Stuff like this is hard to judge without all of the proper information. I still haven’t lost hope of Skinner signing, though. Even if it goes to the tampering window so both sides can see what the offers are like. We can still offer that 8th year up until July 1st. And Skinner supposedly wanted to be near his family in Toronto (and there’s no way the leafs are happening). Maybe Botterill plays his bluff and gets us a fair/good deal... (I can dream, right? lol) Hunwick was the reason Botterill got Sherry for a 4th. He used the Pens cap situation and Hunwick’s contract to pry sherry away on the cheap. So I can see why Rutherford would want some type of protection in place in case Botterill tried to turn around and flip Hunwick for a late pick or something. I don’t see this as anything to criticize. I actually see it as a smart strategy by Botterill to use a bit of the Sabres extra cap space to acquire a good depth player for cheap (something the Sabres need more of). And as for the Reinhart deal, you have to look at it fairly. Botterill only saw 1 year of Reinhart before he had to sign him to a new deal. Look back at that season. For the first half of the year Reinhart only had 11 total points in 38 games. Then went on a tear scoring 39pts in 44. I can see why he wanted more time to evaluate reinhart before before handing out a big money long term deal. We fans saw more of Reinhart and many were more sold on him. I wanted a longer term deal too. But I get where Botterill was coming from. Plus we don’t know how much Sam wanted. What if he was asking for $8M or something? Not saying he was, just say8ng we don’t have all the info. So far Botterill has been a mixed bag for me. I am still in wait and see mode. He’s done some good things (Montour trade, Skinner trade, Sherry trade, even the Scandella trade was pretty decent at the time). The only move I really hated was the ROR trade, and it looks like a doozy right now. Thompson’s development can help change that, as well as some huge luck with the 2 picks still coming (not holding my breath on that...). But we also don’t know what role the Pegulas and that $7.5M payment played. The reportedly lose money on the Sabres, so I can’t necessarily blame the owners if they didn’t want to eat that payment. And ROR’s end of the year comments + ticking clock on the bonus didn’t exactly put buffalo in a position of strength in negotiating a trade. But it was still an awful trade that set the Sabres back. Struggling teams like buffalo can’t afford to make trades like that. You have to get a better return for a player of ROR’s caliber. It could be a move that haunts us for years if Tage doesn’t develop. Though the STL pick could still end up being part of the Montour trade, which would make it ROR for Montour, Thompson and a 2nd (plus Sobotka/Berglund). That would be a little better at least. Anyway.... This offseason is a big one for Botterill. He has to plug some holes somehow. And I’ll be holding my breath on any Risto trade. The return better be good if he’s traded. I still find myself cautiously optimistic about Botterill and the Sabres. I like the Krueger hire, especially if he lands a good experienced assistant coach. There’s a lot of potential there with Krueger. 1
BillsFan4 Posted May 15, 2019 Author Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) Major mistakes of Edmonton Oilers management? One was axing Ralph Krueger, now head coach of the Buffalo Sabres https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/major-mistake-of-edmonton-oilers-management-one-was-axing-ralph-krueger-now-head-coach-of-the-buffalo-sabres/wcm/dcac2700-3bf1-4be9-bf3f-cad15ea812e9 Quote For the record, and for anyone wanting to learn more about Krueger’s philosophy and how he was seen in Edmonton during his short tenure here, this is what we reported at the Cult of Hockey and Edmonton Journal on him: Jonathan Willis, May 25, 2012: There’s no arguing with Krueger’s record at the international level. He won everything he could possibly win – including a championship over teams from stronger European leagues – as a head coach in Austria, and his defense-first system helped propel Switzerland up the world rankings. That track record is the reason why the Oilers could give a first-time NHL coach an ‘associate’ title without any controversy… One of Krueger’s responsibilities with the Oilers was the power play, which after years of struggling finished third in the NHL in 2011-12…. Krueger’s the man who drew up the plan and took an approach different from that pursued by the Oilers for years. “Everybody talks about the quarterback being back at the point. But, if you look at the truly great powerplays, they are led by a dangerous player off the hashmark,” Krueger said, and added had two such bodies — Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Sam Gagner. (continued in link) Having the PP QB at the hash marks was actually somewhat of an innovative move at the time. Most PP’s were run from the point. Quote Bruce McCurdy, June 28, 2012, when he was hired here, reports on Krueger in his own words from his first press conference as Oilers coach..... (continued in link) Some interesting quotes from his opening press conference. Gives a good idea of what he may be about as the Sabres head coach. Definitely worth a read. Quote David Staples, Cult of Hockey, March 8, 2013: The coaching staff has generally had the right players on the ice at the right time. Under-performing veterans aren’t getting too much ice time, unless the coaches have no other options, which is sometimes the case. The Nugent-Hopkins line has been run into the ground, facing off against the top competition on other teams, but what other choice has there been for Ralph Krueger and his assistants? It’s clear Ales Hemsky and Ryan Smyth are no longer up to the challenge of facing off against top competition and Horcoff is out… Their options have been limited due to inexperience and lack of depth. Quote on why he doesn’t like putting his lines constantly into the blender: “There are certain advantages that grow out of lines also going through difficult games together. Because the conversations on the bench are always between those three…. I’m not a big fan of a lot of changing. What you can see within the games, I don’t mind mixing up lines once in a while through a game to try break it, throw somebody into another line… There’s a lot of flexibility there. But your foundation, in this league, where things are coming at us so fast, we need to find some continuity in the people we’re playing with to also have some things develop instinctually in those lines… We’re being extremely patient with this, more on the hope that the synergies can grow. If Nail (Yakupov) suddenly ends up in a completely different situation with different partners, he’s going to start at the zero point again.” This sounds a bit like McDermott Quote He says hello to one and all at the rink–media guy, Zamboni drivers, security people, visiting coaches, visiting writers. He is also the right man for this job, eminently qualified through 20 years of coaching, in Europe and over here. He’s diligent in his preparation, a strong voice. Hes known for getting everyone in the organization on the same page and pulling in the same direction. Krueger is a “culture changer”. Edited May 15, 2019 by BillsFan4 3 1
YoloinOhio Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 @BillsFan4 thanks for posting all these articles. I admittedly know very little about Krueger. He sounds a lot like what i think the organization needs. 1
plenzmd1 Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: @BillsFan4 thanks for posting all these articles. I admittedly know very little about Krueger. He sounds a lot like what i think the organization needs. i have zero knowledge of the guy..but it does sound innovative and I am all for that
JohnC Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: i have zero knowledge of the guy..but it does sound innovative and I am all for that I would have been happy with either Tippitt or Krueger. The Krueger hire was more of an outside the box from a conventional retread hire. I don't care who the coach is the bigger issue is adding talent. The GM has cap space to work with, some assets and picks to parlay. There will be opportunities to upgrade the roster. He needs to seize them. 1
GG Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 Reading up on his background it's very clear that hiring the right assistants will be very important for his success. I see more Marv Levy than Bill Belichick in his background. 1
May Day 10 Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 If he can actuate a sense of leadership and accountability within that lockerroom, then he is worth it. 1
JohnC Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 This is a Buffalo News article by Mike Harrington on the new coach. It emphasizes his ability to motivate. https://buffalonews.com/2019/05/15/mike-harrington-ralph-krueger-buffalo-sabres-nhl-world-cup-of-hockey/
YoloinOhio Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: If he can actuate a sense of leadership and accountability within that lockerroom, then he is worth it. I feel like that is the biggest issue with the team. I understand talent is important but they do have some good pieces especially if they can keep Skinner. They need more but what you reference above is critical to me to success
PromoTheRobot Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I feel like that is the biggest issue with the team. I understand talent is important but they do have some good pieces especially if they can keep Skinner. They need more but what you reference above is critical to me to success The Sabres have needs but they aren't bereft of talent (assuming Skinner stays.) Krueger sounds like a fit as long as he coaches players and not a system.
May Day 10 Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: I feel like that is the biggest issue with the team. I understand talent is important but they do have some good pieces especially if they can keep Skinner. They need more but what you reference above is critical to me to success Your 'feeling' (and mine) is correct IMO. I do think they have had appropriate talent. Maybe not full-depth like a Tampa or San Jose.... but this team, laden with high first round picks all over, should have been much, much better than their performance over the past 4 seasons. Its some kind of interpersonal cloud in that lockerroom. Not sure exactly what it is, or who is responsible (I have my suspicions)... but creating a culture about winning and playing for each other is paramount. There is almost no leadership, and when there is (Gionta/Okposo/OReilly/Gorges) it seems to get ignored. The team has tangibly quit the past 3 seasons.
apuszczalowski Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 I don't think Talent is the biggest issue in Buffalo, they have talent, it's possible they have more talent then some of the teams that made the playoffs this year. The issue was getting those players to maximize their talent and play to their highest level. This is a team which grossly underachiever last year because many players didn't play up to their potential/ability. He sounds like a better motivator then X's and O's guy which may be just what they need. Kinda makes me think of Nolan, and that he might be a guy who can take a bunch of players and have them play at their potential, even if they are the most talented group. Hopefully this works out, but he doesn't have much NHL HCing experience and has been out of the league for a few years working the front office of a soccer team.
K-9 Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 So Krueger is in town in April and covertly goes to various pubs to watch playoff hockey with fans and chats them up about the Sabres so he can get a sense of their passion for the team, etc. AFAIC, that is one helluva good first impression. On another note, JBotts should sign the goalie playing for Great Britain at the IIHF World tourney if he isn’t already by some other team. He’s phenomenal. 1
shrader Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, K-9 said: So Krueger is in town in April and covertly goes to various pubs to watch playoff hockey with fans and chats them up about the Sabres so he can get a sense of their passion for the team, etc. AFAIC, that is one helluva good first impression. I wonder how many people right now are thinking back saying "I remember that guy" and claiming to be the person who won him over. 1
K-9 Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, shrader said: I wonder how many people right now are thinking back saying "I remember that guy" and claiming to be the person who won him over. Haha. Good question. Guaranteed nobody knew who he was at the time. It would be nice to be one of those people to have that story to tell.
plenzmd1 Posted May 15, 2019 Posted May 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, shrader said: I wonder how many people right now are thinking back saying "I remember that guy" and claiming to be the person who won him over. i sure as hell would never have recognized him
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