Buffalo Sabres & NHL 2018-19: Sabres picking 7th overall (6/21/19). Ralph Krueger hire as new head coach!

[JohnC]

13 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

fire him tonight, this team is an absolute embarrassment for two years in a row under this guy

 

Hutton is not good BTW..this team is shell shocked, and their coach has no answers.

 

In my best Trading PLaces voice( if Housley is going to remain as coach)..SELL, SELL, SELL

 

@JohnC still think they gunna stay in the race????

The Sabres are a fringe playoff team. If they fall by the wayside it is because they don't have enough talent. Maybe one of your magical and fantasy trade proposals can upgrade the roster? There was never going to be a quick fix. That's the reality that you are not willing to accept. I accepted it a long time ago. It's about time you caught up with that gut wrenching reality. 

[GG]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres are a fringe playoff team. If they fall by the wayside it is because they don't have enough talent. Maybe one of your magical and fantasy trade proposals can upgrade the roster? There was never going to be a quick fix. That's the reality that you are not willing to accept. I accepted it a long time ago. It's about time you caught up with that gut wrenching reality. 

 

What have you seen in the last month that makes you convinced that this is a fringe playoff team vs a contender for the worst team in the NHL?

 

Said another way, if there were 10 unlucky bounces in December, would you still think this is a playoff contending team?

[snafu]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres are a fringe playoff team. If they fall by the wayside it is because they don't have enough talent. Maybe one of your magical and fantasy trade proposals can upgrade the roster? There was never going to be a quick fix. That's the reality that you are not willing to accept. I accepted it a long time ago. It's about time you caught up with that gut wrenching reality. 

 

Quick fix starting from when?

The Darcy and Lindy days?

 

 

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Quick fix starting from when?

The Darcy and Lindy days?

 

 

Let's stop with this foolishness of attaching the failures of the past regimes to this regime. It's the same nonsensical thinking that the failures of the Rex regime should be associated with the McDermott regime when discussing the Bills. Botterill took over last year. For the most part he stood pat and used the year to assess the organization from top to bottom. In one offseason he did a major remake of the roster. Did you expect miracles? The Sabres went from being the worst team in the league and the most unentertaining and unwatchable team in the NHL to a team vying for a wild-card spot. That's progress. 

 

You may not be willing to acknowledge it but the Sabres are playing a lot of young players such as Mitts, Tage, Dahlin, Ullmark and Pilut. (I'm aware that Dahlin is in a separate category.) That's a lot of young and developing players on a NHL roster at the same time. 

 

Let's get real here. You don't go from the dregs of the gutter to the penthouse in one year. Maybe you and Plezmd believe in magic but the realities of rebuilding a team have little to do with one's fantasies. You may be broken because of the inherent frustrations of a following a rebuilding team, but I'm not. Quite the contrary: I'm optimistic that in the not too distant future this team will be a serious team. Obviously, we are not there yet. If you really believed that this team was going to be an instantaneous success when entering the GM's second year of his tenure then you are being very unrealistic. 

[plenzmd1]

Quote

Let's get real here. You don't go from the dregs of the gutter to the penthouse in one year. Maybe you and Plezmd believe in magic but the realities of rebuilding a team have little to do with one's fantasies. You may be broken because of the inherent frustrations of a following a rebuilding team, but I'm not. Quite the contrary: I'm optimistic that in the not too distant future this team will be a serious team. Obviously, we are not there yet. If you really believed that this team was going to be an instantaneous success when entering the GM's second year of his tenure then you are being very unrealistic. 

 

John, I think this is really where we differ at out core. I know I am cherry-picking a bit, but the analytics in that 10 game win streak said the Sabres were getting extremly lucky to be in the game and force OTs, where they were 7 of 7 getting the extra point. 

 

Lets just say we take that 10 games portion of the schedule out completely..Sabres are at .43% point percentage rate..slightly, and i mean slighly better than last place Ottawa who is at .425...and that's a team that is, for the most part, trying to tank.

 

If you gave the Sabres even a .500 record in those streak games, Sabres earning points @ a .450, 2nd worst in the league still.

 

In the 26 games since the "streak", Sabres are earning points at .350, by FAR the worst in the league, and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Do you really believe this roster is again the worst or second worst roster in the league?

 

Cause that is where they have performed for 128 of the 138 games Housley has coached. 

 

I don't buy the roster is that bad, I buy the coach is not getting the most out of this team and while they provide entertainment again in the "have to watch a traffic accident" type, they are in fact almost unwatchable again the last 26 games

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

John, I think this is really where we differ at out core. I know I am cherry-picking a bit, but the analytics in that 10 game win streak said the Sabres were getting extremly lucky to be in the game and force OTs, where they were 7 of 7 getting the extra point. 

 

Lets just say we take that 10 games portion of the schedule out completely..Sabres are at .43% point percentage rate..slightly, and i mean slighly better than last place Ottawa who is at .425...and that's a team that is, for the most part, trying to tank.

 

If you gave the Sabres even a .500 record in those streak games, Sabres earning points @ a .450, 2nd worst in the league still.

 

In the 26 games since the "streak", Sabres are earning points at .350, by FAR the worst in the league, and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Do you really believe this roster is again the worst or second worst roster in the league?

 

Cause that is where they have performed for 128 of the 138 games Housley has coached. 

 

I don't buy the roster is that bad, I buy the coach is not getting the most out of this team and while they provide entertainment again in the "have to watch a traffic accident" type, they are in fact almost unwatchable again the last 26 games

The difference between being good (not elite) and being mediocre is miniscule. This roster is not at a level where it has much margin of error. You keep bringing up the argument that if we didn't have this streak then we would instead be in the gutter with this coach. Let's discuss the reality of the situation and not where we could have been "if only this or that happened". No matter how you want to reinterpret it the streak is part of the record.  Our record is our record! You are reconstructing something that actually happened. So your reconstruction is not a fact, it is a manufactured fiction. 

 

If you want to argue about the meaning of the streak then let's do so. It demonstrates the difference between winning and losing is very small. That's the real meaning of the streak. The Sabres are where they are because of their talent level. That's the unappealing truth that you are not willing to accept. You are looking for your designated bogeyman to be the reason why this team is flailing. I have a gut punching real-world reason why this team is struggling: They don't have enough talent! 

 

Where you see regression----I see progress even while in the midst of its struggles. No matter how much you desire it there is no in-season magical deal/s that is going to catapult this team to a higher level. No matter how much you become frantic that is not going to change the sobering reality that it is going to take time to move up the ranks. You do that by internally improving and adding talent from the outside. 

 

I truly understand why fans of this team are so frustrated and exasperated. The ignominious  history of failing has brutalized this fanbase. The solution is to pursue a course that will over time prove successful. Succumbing to one's frustrations for quick-fix solutions is a recipe for continued failure. Because you are an enthusiastic drinker you more than most should be in a position to handle the vicissitudes of following this exasperating franchise.  

[BillsFan4]

14 hours ago, K-9 said:

Hutton sucks. 

Can’t be a surprise though. We’ve been a sub .400 team since coach clueless came aboard and we are a sub.400 team since the fluke streak. I ask again; what has anyone, ANYONE observed in Housley that suggests he’s a good coach? There are several examples to show he’s not a good coach, though. 

 

Anyway, I’m liking those UB Bulls!

 

I am undecided on Housley overall. I am more/less still in wait and see mode, but I will tell you what I see that I like (you may not agree with it all,  it I’ll tell you anyway... lol)

 

I see a legitimate step forward in the rebuild for the first time since it started. You can point to win percentage or whatever but I see a change for the better in the way the whole team plays hockey. Much better than when buffalo made that jump in 2015. 

They look like a legit NHL team for the first time in years. Their breakout has improved. Their transition through the neutral zone and entry into the offensive zone have both improved. They are creating more scoring chances and generally playing a much more exciting brand of hockey. And They have pretty much been in most games this year. 

 

The culture and buy in have both definitely changed for the better too, and I give housley a lot of credit for that. He went out of his way to meet with Sabres players over the summer and also got them to meet with each other and have some tough conversations. 

For the first time since the rebuild started players are all on the same page. Guys have accepted their roles on the team and are all pulling in the same direction. They are all actually playing the same system instead of just doing whatever they want. 

 

I have also seen forward progress from some of our younger guys (not all). 

The buy in and change from Eichel has been very noticeable. He is not floating around out there like in previous seasons. He’s (usually) backchecking hard and trying to play a 200ft game. Reinhart looks to have taken a step forward in his development and is playing more consistent. Thompson really seems to be starting to come into his own a bit (with a long way to go still, obviously). Dahlin seems to be developing nicely. Rodriguez is coming into his own. McCabe took a step forward his year. 

 

And I like the teams no quit attitude on most nights. I don’t see them hanging their heads every time they get down by a goal like in previous seasons. 

 

I generally like the style/system housley wants to play, too. It can be fun to watch when it’s working right. It was tons of fun to watch in Nashville (and their defense hasn’t been as exciting to watch since housley left). 

When we still had Bylsma, I remember soooo many Sabres fans saying “just let these kids play. Stop playing so risk averse and making players so scared to make any mistakes. Let them be creative, we will live with the mistakes if it opens up the game and makes the Sabres fun to watch” and that is kind of what we are getting on many nights IMO. 

 

 

And I really like that the guys who cover Sabres practices (like John Vogl and Paul Hamilton) say that Housley is a great teacher in practice. 

 

 

 

I know people like to lose their minds over some of his lineup/roster decisions (especially Pilut). But it’s not something I get too worked up over. I look at it like this - 1) he already has more young players in prominent roles than many/most NHL coaches do. He is giving a lot of young guys tons of opportunity.

And 2) lineup decisions, line combinations and “veteran playing over (fill in the blank) young player” are complaints with every single coach around the NHL. It is by far the most common complaint among fans. I don’t know if there’s a single fan base who is legitimately happy with their coaches lineup decisions. Even the very best coaches. Ask Detroit fans about Babcock, or Chicago fans about Quenneville, or tamp fans about Cooper. 

 

It’s been a complaint about every Sabres coach for as long as I can remember. With Housley, it’s “he sticks with line combinations too long”. 

With Bylsma it was “he doesn’t stick with line combinations long enough”.

Lindy used to drive people nuts with his scratches, line combinations and the guys put in his dog house. Remember Brayden McNabb? He’d come up, play well and promptly be sent down. Lindy was never willing to giv dhim a legit chance. Or Vanek? I remember he was benched for an entire playoff series once (in 2006 iirc, and he was buffalo’s 2nd leading scorer that season!) 

 

 

You also have to remember, we don’t see what goes on behind the scenes. We don’t see practices or meetings or the locker room. We don’t know if a guy may be struggling in practices, or to grasp concepts in meetings. We don’t know what their attitudes are like.

 

We don’t even know what the coaches are coaching them to do. They could have been drilling something into a guy’s head all week and he goes out and does the opposite. We assume so many things are coaching errors when we don’t truly know. There is so much information that we are missing as fans. 

 

 

I think probably the biggest problem is that Sabres fans have just totally run out of patience. They want a good team now and they are not willing to wait any longer. They see Toronto doing so well and it pisses them off. But Toronto is a different situation. They looked like they were going to go full rebuild and then they only traded a couple core guys and retooled. They have players on that team from ‘08 and ‘09. They’ve been rebuilding much longer than buffalo. 

I don’t think people realize just how rare what Buffalo did was. There aren’t many teams that go full scorched earth to the length buffalo took it in such a short period of time, and the teams that did took many years to pull out of it again. 

 

I dont know if patience with housley will pay will pay off or not, but I doo see some good things. There are obviously plenty of things that need to improve, too. 

 

But it when I look at this team, I’m not sure how much more any other coach could get out of them. I see a team lacking in a lot of areas. We have a top line and a bottom line. We have a below average defense and somewhere between average to below average goaltending of any given night (and when we had better goaltending, we were winning more games). 

I don’t think the Sabres are just a coach away from being a good team. Everyone wants Quenneville, but even he struggled in Chicago when he lost a good amount of his talent, or guys started to fall off (like Keith and Seabrook). 

 

 

I’m not opposed to Quenneville, don’t get me wrong. I’d be happy if we hired him (though I guarantee people would B word about his scratches and player usage too, and especially some veteran players he would decide to rely on) I am not someone who usually goes around calling for people to be fired though. I just go with the flow. All of these decisions are out of my hands, so I usually try to look for reasons to support my team/coach/GM as opposed to looking for reasons to fire them. I look for the positives. I am a happier person when I do that... lol. 

 

 

 

Sorry about the wall of text. I give you credit if you actually read the whole thing! lol 

 

 

 

[BillsFan4]

Botterill was on WGR550 before the game last night, for those who didn’t hear the interview here’s the link -

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/botterill-we-understand-how-important-being-playoff-hunt

 

Quote

"We understand where we're at as an organization, we're trying to find that balance, because we understand how important being in the playoff hunt is. When we say 'young players', I usually think of young players, I'm thinking about Casey (Mittelstadt), Rasmus Dahlin, Tage Thompson. But who else is a very young player still is Jack (Eichel) and Sam Reinhart, and it's important that these guys are part of a playoff race." 

 

"So you're balancing that act of making sure that we try to hold on to young assets, young picks so that improves our depth down the road. That, and these young players coming through the system. But it's also find that balance of making sure that we stay in this race to help these guys get the experience of being in a playoff race and eventually getting playoff games." 

 

Gives me a little hope that we may at least see a smaller trade before the deadline, to potentially give the team a boost. Not holding my breath, but at least Botterill doesn’t sound totally opposed to it. The trade deadline falls on my birthday this year, so maybe I’ll get a nice present! lol 

[snafu]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Let's stop with this foolishness of attaching the failures of the past regimes to this regime. It's the same nonsensical thinking that the failures of the Rex regime should be associated with the McDermott regime when discussing the Bills. Botterill took over last year. For the most part he stood pat and used the year to assess the organization from top to bottom. In one offseason he did a major remake of the roster. Did you expect miracles? The Sabres went from being the worst team in the league and the most unentertaining and unwatchable team in the NHL to a team vying for a wild-card spot. That's progress. 

 

You may not be willing to acknowledge it but the Sabres are playing a lot of young players such as Mitts, Tage, Dahlin, Ullmark and Pilut. (I'm aware that Dahlin is in a separate category.) That's a lot of young and developing players on a NHL roster at the same time. 

 

Let's get real here. You don't go from the dregs of the gutter to the penthouse in one year. Maybe you and Plezmd believe in magic but the realities of rebuilding a team have little to do with one's fantasies. You may be broken because of the inherent frustrations of a following a rebuilding team, but I'm not. Quite the contrary: I'm optimistic that in the not too distant future this team will be a serious team. Obviously, we are not there yet. If you really believed that this team was going to be an instantaneous success when entering the GM's second year of his tenure then you are being very unrealistic. 

 

The last season that this team sniffed at even competing for a playoff spot was 2011/12 (Ruff’s last full season).  2012/13 was the short season.

 

2013/14, 52 points (.317) 30th place

2014/15, 54 points (.329) 30th place  — for comparison, that’s the year Toronto bottomed out at 68 pts.

2015/16, 81 points (.494) 23rd place — Toronto 69 pts.

2016/17, 78 points (.476) 26th place

2017/18, 62 points (.378) 31st place

 

The team hasn’t competed for 16th place into its 6th straight year.  I’m not asking for a ***** Stanley Cup contender — I don’t think anyone is.  This team started with Rolston and Nolan and we were told that those guys were good fits because they were good with young players. When that tank years were over, we were told that Bylsma was the guy to take the team to the next level. He wasn’t. They brought in Housley, who has a system that you described above.  It is very dependent on speedy, two-way defensemen. We don’t have those guys.  Housley’s system, you say, is also dependent upon traffic in front of the net (I’m not sure what coach doesen’t preach that).  We’ve got ONE player who goes to the front of the net consistently.  These things all go hand in hand. What kind of stupid decision was it to hire a coach with a specific system and not have the players to play it?

 

I love the fact that Botteril is stocking Rochester with talented kids. The team’s cupboard was empty, and filling it takes a lot of time — I get it.  But Botteril has painted this team into a corner by hiring Housley.  Now, one of three things will inevitably happen: (1) Housley needs to accommodate his system to fit the personnel he’s got, (2) this team needs to wait until Botteril gives Housley the right players; (3) Housley gets fired and all the guys who they got to fit his system won’t fit with the new guy’s system.

 

Edit:  at this point #1 must happen until #2 is complete OR get it over with and make a coaching change to someone who isn’t so player-specific, stylistically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by snafu

[BillsFan4]

 

Wonder if this means Nelson is ready to come back? Or that they are calling someone up from Rochester?

 

 

[snafu]

Just now, BillsFan4 said:

 

Wonder if this means Nelson is ready to come back? Or that they are calling someone up from Rochester?

 

 

 

Is Wilson ready?

I’d like to see what he’s got.

[BillsFan4]

1 minute ago, snafu said:

 

Is Wilson ready?

I’d like to see what he’s got.

I was just about to post that. I forgot all about him, but that very well could be it. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by BillsFan4

[snafu]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I was just about to post that. I forgot all about him, but that very well could be it. 

 

I liked his game last year.

And if he doesn’t fit into their plans going forward, they can showcase him for a trade before the deadline.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, snafu said:

 

The last season that this team sniffed at even competing for a playoff spot was 2011/12 (Ruff’s last full season).  2012/13 was the short season.

 

2013/14, 52 points (.317) 30th place

2014/15, 54 points (.329) 30th place  — for comparison, that’s the year Toronto bottomed out at 68 pts.

2015/16, 81 points (.494) 23rd place — Toronto 69 pts.

2016/17, 78 points (.476) 26th place

2017/18, 62 points (.378) 31st place

 

The team hasn’t competed for 16th place into its 6th straight year.  I’m not asking for a ***** Stanley Cup contender — I don’t think anyone is.  This team started with Rolston and Nolan and we were told that those guys were good fits because they were good with young players. When that tank years were over, we were told that Bylsma was the guy to take the team to the next level. He wasn’t. They brought in Housley, who has a system that you described above.  It is very dependent on speedy, two-way defensemen. We don’t have those guys.  Housley’s system, you say, is also dependent upon traffic in front of the net (I’m not sure what coach doesen’t preach that).  We’ve got ONE player who goes to the front of the net consistently.  These things all go hand in hand. What kind of stupid decision was it to hire a coach with a specific system and not have the players to play it?

 

I love the fact that Botteril is stocking Rochester with talented kids. The team’s cupboard was empty, and filling it takes a lot of time — I get it.  But Botteril has painted this team into a corner by hiring Housley.  Now, one of three things will inevitably happen: (1) Housley needs to accommodate his system to fit the personnel he’s got, (2) this team needs to wait until Botteril gives Housley the right players; (3) Housley gets fired and all the guys who they got to fit his system won’t fit with the new guy’s system.

 

Edit:  at this point #1 must happen until #2 is complete OR get it over with and make a coaching change to someone who isn’t so player-specific, stylistically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Refer to your points #1 and 2 with the emphasis on point #2. You have to give Botterill the time to bring in more talent. There's nothing mystical about what is happening with the Sabres. There is simply a dearth of talent right now to consider this team a serious team. 

 

Merging the Botterill era with the prior losing eras is the wrong way to assess how well our GM is doing his job. He has a blueprint and is following it. His model is the Pittsburgh model. That model is essentially the same model that successful teams have drawn from i.e. be bad enough to draft an elite player or two and then emphasize player development. 

 

I challenge you to go back and look at Chicago, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Tampa. Washington and the old Potvin Islanders during their heydays. The formula for success is for the most part the same. Get a couple of elite players and then surround them with players you developed and augmented with deals. There is no secret to this formula for success. It takes time to follow through. The worst thing you can do is lurch back and forth because it creates additional setbacks. 

 

You,  Plezmd and others want to take the easy way out and make Housley out as your scapegoat. I'm not buying such a facile answer. Your bogeyman is not my bogeyman! 

[K-9]

4 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I am undecided on Housley overall. I am more/less still in wait and see mode, but I will tell you what I see that I like (you may not agree with it all,  it I’ll tell you anyway... lol)

 

I see a legitimate step forward in the rebuild for the first time since it started. You can point to win percentage or whatever but I see a change for the better in the way the whole team plays hockey. Much better than when buffalo made that jump in 2015. 

They look like a legit NHL team for the first time in years. Their breakout has improved. Their transition through the neutral zone and entry into the offensive zone have both improved. They are creating more scoring chances and generally playing a much more exciting brand of hockey. And They have pretty much been in most games this year. 

 

The culture and buy in have both definitely changed for the better too, and I give housley a lot of credit for that. He went out of his way to meet with Sabres players over the summer and also got them to meet with each other and have some tough conversations. 

For the first time since the rebuild started players are all on the same page. Guys have accepted their roles on the team and are all pulling in the same direction. They are all actually playing the same system instead of just doing whatever they want. 

 

I have also seen forward progress from some of our younger guys (not all). 

The buy in and change from Eichel has been very noticeable. He is not floating around out there like in previous seasons. He’s (usually) backchecking hard and trying to play a 200ft game. Reinhart looks to have taken a step forward in his development and is playing more consistent. Thompson really seems to be starting to come into his own a bit (with a long way to go still, obviously). Dahlin seems to be developing nicely. Rodriguez is coming into his own. McCabe took a step forward his year. 

 

And I like the teams no quit attitude on most nights. I don’t see them hanging their heads every time they get down by a goal like in previous seasons. 

 

I generally like the style/system housley wants to play, too. It can be fun to watch when it’s working right. It was tons of fun to watch in Nashville (and their defense hasn’t been as exciting to watch since housley left). 

When we still had Bylsma, I remember soooo many Sabres fans saying “just let these kids play. Stop playing so risk averse and making players so scared to make any mistakes. Let them be creative, we will live with the mistakes if it opens up the game and makes the Sabres fun to watch” and that is kind of what we are getting on many nights IMO. 

 

 

And I really like that the guys who cover Sabres practices (like John Vogl and Paul Hamilton) say that Housley is a great teacher in practice. 

 

 

 

I know people like to lose their minds over some of his lineup/roster decisions (especially Pilut). But it’s not something I get too worked up over. I look at it like this - 1) he already has more young players in prominent roles than many/most NHL coaches do. He is giving a lot of young guys tons of opportunity.

And 2) lineup decisions, line combinations and “veteran playing over (fill in the blank) young player” are complaints with every single coach around the NHL. It is by far the most common complaint among fans. I don’t know if there’s a single fan base who is legitimately happy with their coaches lineup decisions. Even the very best coaches. Ask Detroit fans about Babcock, or Chicago fans about Quenneville, or tamp fans about Cooper. 

 

It’s been a complaint about every Sabres coach for as long as I can remember. With Housley, it’s “he sticks with line combinations too long”. 

With Bylsma it was “he doesn’t stick with line combinations long enough”.

Lindy used to drive people nuts with his scratches, line combinations and the guys put in his dog house. Remember Brayden McNabb? He’d come up, play well and promptly be sent down. Lindy was never willing to giv dhim a legit chance. Or Vanek? I remember he was benched for an entire playoff series once (in 2006 iirc, and he was buffalo’s 2nd leading scorer that season!) 

 

 

You also have to remember, we don’t see what goes on behind the scenes. We don’t see practices or meetings or the locker room. We don’t know if a guy may be struggling in practices, or to grasp concepts in meetings. We don’t know what their attitudes are like.

 

We don’t even know what the coaches are coaching them to do. They could have been drilling something into a guy’s head all week and he goes out and does the opposite. We assume so many things are coaching errors when we don’t truly know. There is so much information that we are missing as fans. 

 

 

I think probably the biggest problem is that Sabres fans have just totally run out of patience. They want a good team now and they are not willing to wait any longer. They see Toronto doing so well and it pisses them off. But Toronto is a different situation. They looked like they were going to go full rebuild and then they only traded a couple core guys and retooled. They have players on that team from ‘08 and ‘09. They’ve been rebuilding much longer than buffalo. 

I don’t think people realize just how rare what Buffalo did was. There aren’t many teams that go full scorched earth to the length buffalo took it in such a short period of time, and the teams that did took many years to pull out of it again. 

 

I dont know if patience with housley will pay will pay off or not, but I doo see some good things. There are obviously plenty of things that need to improve, too. 

 

But it when I look at this team, I’m not sure how much more any other coach could get out of them. I see a team lacking in a lot of areas. We have a top line and a bottom line. We have a below average defense and somewhere between average to below average goaltending of any given night (and when we had better goaltending, we were winning more games). 

I don’t think the Sabres are just a coach away from being a good team. Everyone wants Quenneville, but even he struggled in Chicago when he lost a good amount of his talent, or guys started to fall off (like Keith and Seabrook). 

 

 

I’m not opposed to Quenneville, don’t get me wrong. I’d be happy if we hired him (though I guarantee people would B word about his scratches and player usage too, and especially some veteran players he would decide to rely on) I am not someone who usually goes around calling for people to be fired though. I just go with the flow. All of these decisions are out of my hands, so I usually try to look for reasons to support my team/coach/GM as opposed to looking for reasons to fire them. I look for the positives. I am a happier person when I do that... lol. 

 

 

 

Sorry about the wall of text. I give you credit if you actually read the whole thing! lol 

 

 

 

I appreciate all the thought that went into your post. And who doesn’t like a wall of text about hockey that resembles a goalie pad!

[bbb]

I heard during the bye week that since the ten game winning streak, we have the least amount of points in the league...........Not sure if that was a function of the bye week.  Does anybody know if that is still true?.................It seems like we never even get the loser point anymore. 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Refer to your points #1 and 2 with the emphasis on point #2. You have to give Botterill the time to bring in more talent. There's nothing mystical about what is happening with the Sabres. There is simply a dearth of talent right now to consider this team a serious team. 

 

Merging the Botterill era with the prior losing eras is the wrong way to assess how well our GM is doing his job. He has a blueprint and is following it. His model is the Pittsburgh model. That model is essentially the same model that successful teams have drawn from i.e. be bad enough to draft an elite player or two and then emphasize player development. 

 

I challenge you to go back and look at Chicago, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Tampa. Washington and the old Potvin Islanders during their heydays. The formula for success is for the most part the same. Get a couple of elite players and then surround them with players you developed and augmented with deals. There is no secret to this formula for success. It takes time to follow through. The worst thing you can do is lurch back and forth because it creates additional setbacks. 

 

You,  Plezmd and others want to take the easy way out and make Housley out as your scapegoat. I'm not buying such a facile answer. Your bogeyman is not my bogeyman! 

 

I wasn’t merging Botteril’s tenure with prior eras except to point out that I think Botteril made a mistake in hiring Housley when the pieces weren’t in place. Either that, or Housley is so married to his style that he can’t adjust it to the talent he’s got. This team has a choice to rip the bandage off now, or give Housley at least two more seasons to get the system to marry the talent.

 

The thing is, I don’t think they need much.  You say this team is bereft of talent, but not really.  They need a second line left wing who can forecheck, bang and muck and cycle, and park his ass in front of the net.  Get that in a trade this year.  They need a decent second pairing defenseman (I couldn’t care less if he fits Housley’s system) to go with Ristolainan.  Get that in the off season.  They need a more effective fourth-liner to go with Larsson and Girgs (maybe Rodrigues fits there if they get the second line winger).  Honestly, I don’t care what they do with the third line — keep Okposo and Pominville there until their contracts run out.  They need Guhle to pan out and get up to the big club to play in the third pair.  That can come next year, but if they’re out of the running, bring him up by the end of this month. Finally, play Ullmark #1 minutes and see if he’s the guy. 

 

 

[plenzmd1]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

 

Where you see regression----I see progress even while in the midst of its struggles. No matter how much you desire it there is no in-season magical deal/s that is going to catapult this team to a higher level. No matter how much you become frantic that is not going to change the sobering reality that it is going to take time to move up the ranks. You do that by internally improving and adding talent from the outside. 

 

I truly understand why fans of this team are so frustrated and exasperated. The ignominious  history of failing has brutalized this fanbase. The solution is to pursue a course that will over time prove successful. Succumbing to one's frustrations for quick-fix solutions is a recipe for continued failure. Because you are an enthusiastic drinker you more than most should be in a position to handle the vicissitudes of following this exasperating franchise.  

1

OKay, I think i know where we really have disagreement now where it regards Housley. I do not think much of anything is going to change the Sabres fortunes this year...my fear is this guy is going to keep them at the bottom s long as he is here...so when do we pull the plug? To me, ya can just tell when a coach aint getting it done in a certain place..and no amount of time is gunna matter. Thats where I am with Housley. I got sucked in to on the win streak.. let's not forget I wanted to bail on the dude after the first 40 minutes of the season...this is not a reaction to the losing now

24 minutes ago, bbb said:

I heard during the bye week that since the ten game winning streak, we have the least amount of points in the league...........Not sure if that was a function of the bye week.  Does anybody know if that is still true?.................It seems like we never even get the loser point anymore. 

26 games since the win streak, Sabres are only getting .350 of available points..last place Ottawa is .425..so yes, by far the worst in the league

[bbb]

3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

26 games since the win streak, Sabres are only getting .350 of available points..last place Ottawa is .425..so yes, by far the worst in the league

 

That's unbelievable! 

[JohnC]

34 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I wasn’t merging Botteril’s tenure with prior eras except to point out that I think Botteril made a mistake in hiring Housley when the pieces weren’t in place. Either that, or Housley is so married to his style that he can’t adjust it to the talent he’s got. This team has a choice to rip the bandage off now, or give Housley at least two more seasons to get the system to marry the talent.

 

The thing is, I don’t think they need much.  You say this team is bereft of talent, but not really.  They need a second line left wing who can forecheck, bang and muck and cycle, and park his ass in front of the net.  Get that in a trade this year.  They need a decent second pairing defenseman (I couldn’t care less if he fits Housley’s system) to go with Ristolainan.  Get that in the off season.  They need a more effective fourth-liner to go with Larsson and Girgs (maybe Rodrigues fits there if they get the second line winger).  Honestly, I don’t care what they do with the third line — keep Okposo and Pominville there until their contracts run out.  They need Guhle to pan out and get up to the big club to play in the third pair.  That can come next year, but if they’re out of the running, bring him up by the end of this month. Finally, play Ullmark #1 minutes and see if he’s the guy. 

 

 

After reading your post I find myself more in accord than discord with you. I agree with you that there is a base to work with. We have a core, and in addition there is some good young material in the pipeline that should arrive by next year. I'm hoping that in this next offseason the GM can pull off another Skinner like deal. The Sabres are not an unsalvageable vessel but a vessel that is not completed. That's been my point all along! 

 

When I watch the Sabres against very good teams they can keep up if they play smartly. But it's still evident that their roster is shortchanged compared to the fuller rostered teams. The primary reason I'm willing to stay the course against the chorus of strident voices is that I don't believe we are that far away. As our roster is currently constructed there is not much margin for error. In addition,  there are a lot of young players on this roster who are getting a lot of playing time. That's not a formula for immediate success. But the struggles that player such as Piluts, Mitts, Ullmark and Tage are going through will hopefully in the not too distant future will result in their accelerated development.

 

There certainly are struggles and inconsistencies with this team. But if this regime stays the course and follows its own blueprint it will pay dividends. What I don't want to see is a premature changing of the coaching staff that will set this franchise back rather than move it forward. This lurching back and forth with regime changes is more damaging than helpful. 

 

My advice to the frantic and despairing Plezmd and others is to have the fortitude to stay the course and let the season play out. I believe in our GM and the direction he has set. Let's give him the time to execute his plan and a fair chance to succeed. While so many people wallow in their frustration I am actually very optimistic. It just takes time!   

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I am undecided on Housley overall. I am more/less still in wait and see mode, but I will tell you what I see that I like (you may not agree with it all,  it I’ll tell you anyway... lol)

 

I see a legitimate step forward in the rebuild for the first time since it started. You can point to win percentage or whatever but I see a change for the better in the way the whole team plays hockey. Much better than when buffalo made that jump in 2015. 

They look like a legit NHL team for the first time in years. Their breakout has improved. Their transition through the neutral zone and entry into the offensive zone have both improved. They are creating more scoring chances and generally playing a much more exciting brand of hockey. And They have pretty much been in most games this year. 

 

The culture and buy in have both definitely changed for the better too, and I give housley a lot of credit for that. He went out of his way to meet with Sabres players over the summer and also got them to meet with each other and have some tough conversations. 

For the first time since the rebuild started players are all on the same page. Guys have accepted their roles on the team and are all pulling in the same direction. They are all actually playing the same system instead of just doing whatever they want. 

 

I have also seen forward progress from some of our younger guys (not all). 

The buy in and change from Eichel has been very noticeable. He is not floating around out there like in previous seasons. He’s (usually) backchecking hard and trying to play a 200ft game. Reinhart looks to have taken a step forward in his development and is playing more consistent. Thompson really seems to be starting to come into his own a bit (with a long way to go still, obviously). Dahlin seems to be developing nicely. Rodriguez is coming into his own. McCabe took a step forward his year. 

 

And I like the teams no quit attitude on most nights. I don’t see them hanging their heads every time they get down by a goal like in previous seasons. 

 

I generally like the style/system housley wants to play, too. It can be fun to watch when it’s working right. It was tons of fun to watch in Nashville (and their defense hasn’t been as exciting to watch since housley left). 

When we still had Bylsma, I remember soooo many Sabres fans saying “just let these kids play. Stop playing so risk averse and making players so scared to make any mistakes. Let them be creative, we will live with the mistakes if it opens up the game and makes the Sabres fun to watch” and that is kind of what we are getting on many nights IMO. 

 

 

And I really like that the guys who cover Sabres practices (like John Vogl and Paul Hamilton) say that Housley is a great teacher in practice. 

 

 

 

I know people like to lose their minds over some of his lineup/roster decisions (especially Pilut). But it’s not something I get too worked up over. I look at it like this - 1) he already has more young players in prominent roles than many/most NHL coaches do. He is giving a lot of young guys tons of opportunity.

And 2) lineup decisions, line combinations and “veteran playing over (fill in the blank) young player” are complaints with every single coach around the NHL. It is by far the most common complaint among fans. I don’t know if there’s a single fan base who is legitimately happy with their coaches lineup decisions. Even the very best coaches. Ask Detroit fans about Babcock, or Chicago fans about Quenneville, or tamp fans about Cooper. 

 

It’s been a complaint about every Sabres coach for as long as I can remember. With Housley, it’s “he sticks with line combinations too long”. 

With Bylsma it was “he doesn’t stick with line combinations long enough”.

Lindy used to drive people nuts with his scratches, line combinations and the guys put in his dog house. Remember Brayden McNabb? He’d come up, play well and promptly be sent down. Lindy was never willing to giv dhim a legit chance. Or Vanek? I remember he was benched for an entire playoff series once (in 2006 iirc, and he was buffalo’s 2nd leading scorer that season!) 

 

 

You also have to remember, we don’t see what goes on behind the scenes. We don’t see practices or meetings or the locker room. We don’t know if a guy may be struggling in practices, or to grasp concepts in meetings. We don’t know what their attitudes are like.

 

We don’t even know what the coaches are coaching them to do. They could have been drilling something into a guy’s head all week and he goes out and does the opposite. We assume so many things are coaching errors when we don’t truly know. There is so much information that we are missing as fans. 

 

 

I think probably the biggest problem is that Sabres fans have just totally run out of patience. They want a good team now and they are not willing to wait any longer. They see Toronto doing so well and it pisses them off. But Toronto is a different situation. They looked like they were going to go full rebuild and then they only traded a couple core guys and retooled. They have players on that team from ‘08 and ‘09. They’ve been rebuilding much longer than buffalo. 

I don’t think people realize just how rare what Buffalo did was. There aren’t many teams that go full scorched earth to the length buffalo took it in such a short period of time, and the teams that did took many years to pull out of it again. 

 

I dont know if patience with housley will pay will pay off or not, but I doo see some good things. There are obviously plenty of things that need to improve, too. 

 

But it when I look at this team, I’m not sure how much more any other coach could get out of them. I see a team lacking in a lot of areas. We have a top line and a bottom line. We have a below average defense and somewhere between average to below average goaltending of any given night (and when we had better goaltending, we were winning more games). 

I don’t think the Sabres are just a coach away from being a good team. Everyone wants Quenneville, but even he struggled in Chicago when he lost a good amount of his talent, or guys started to fall off (like Keith and Seabrook). 

 

 

I’m not opposed to Quenneville, don’t get me wrong. I’d be happy if we hired him (though I guarantee people would B word about his scratches and player usage too, and especially some veteran players he would decide to rely on) I am not someone who usually goes around calling for people to be fired though. I just go with the flow. All of these decisions are out of my hands, so I usually try to look for reasons to support my team/coach/GM as opposed to looking for reasons to fire them. I look for the positives. I am a happier person when I do that... lol. 

 

 

 

Sorry about the wall of text. I give you credit if you actually read the whole thing! lol 

 

 

 

Great post. You are astute, adroit and perspicacious. ?