jrober38 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Doc Brown said: I don't mean to be this combative as abortion is a sensitive issue. I actually am against abortion after 20 weeks with the exception of rape or *****. If there was another organization besides pp with the infrastructure in low income areas then I'd be fine with funding them but there isn't. I think all you'd see with defunding planned parenthood is an increase of death among young women due to back alley abortions, higher rates of actual infanticide, and an actual increase in abortion rates because of a lack of access to contraception. They saw an increase in abortion rates in Texas a few years back when they defunded most of planned parenthood there. Edit - Really: In-cest is blocked but rape is fine. I'll reiterate from a couple weeks ago that late term abortions beyond 24 weeks represent 1.3% of all abortions in the US, of which many are performed because the fetus isn't viable due to severe birth defects. Based off of the data available, 50-250 abortions happen each year after 28 weeks. Hardly any of which are actually done in the final weeks of a pregnancy. The right would lead you to believe that number is actually in the thousands. That babies that are 39 weeks along are being aborted in mass when reality is that isn't even remotely the truth. 10 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: I’m honestly not at all morally conflicted over the idea of women who are trying to murder children dying in the process. It’s certainly not the ideal, and preventable death is always tragic; but a woman willing to murder one child will likely be willing to murder more, so at least it puts an end to the cycle. Also, it’s the choices of the woman which led to her demise. Not much different than suicide. I'm fairly certain there's zero evidence to support this opinion. Saying it's a woman's choice to get pregnant due to being raped or molested by a family member is a bit much. Edited September 12, 2019 by jrober38
3rdnlng Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: It's not that black and white since there's no clear definition of when life begins. Lack of access to cheap contraceptives leads to a higher rate of unwanted pregnancies causing more women to seek abortions. Then I would presume that you are making the determination 20 weeks is when life begins unless the kid is a product of rape or *****. 7 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I'll reiterate from a couple weeks ago that late term abortions beyond 24 weeks represent 1.3% of all abortions in the US, of which many are performed because the fetus isn't viable due to severe birth defects. Based off of the data available, 50-250 abortions happen each year after 28 weeks. Hardly any of which are actually done in the final weeks of a pregnancy. The right would lead you to believe that number is actually in the thousands. That babies that are 39 weeks along are being aborted in mass when reality is that isn't even remotely the truth. I'm fairly certain there's zero evidence to support this opinion. Saying it's a woman's choice to get pregnant due to being raped or molested by a family member is a bit much. As usual you post statistics without links. Edited September 12, 2019 by 3rdnlng
jrober38 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: As usual you post statistics without links. I googled how many late term abortions and this came up as the first link. The data is taken straight from the CDC. http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/late_term_abortion_usa.html https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm Based off what I've read, 90% of all abortions are done before 3 months into the pregnancy. 98.7% are done by the 21st week. 50-250 abortions happen per year after 28 weeks with the due date being 39 weeks after conception, meaning you're likely dealing with a handful of situations per year around the 39 week mark. The notion by the right that babies are being aborted in mass in the delivery room couldn't be farther from the truth. Edited September 12, 2019 by jrober38 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, jrober38 said: I'm fairly certain there's zero evidence to support this opinion. Saying it's a woman's choice to get pregnant due to being raped or molested by a family member is a bit much. What kind of half-assed logic is this? Women choosing to murder their children will lead to increased deaths of the women who murdered their children. Nothing to do with rape and *****. But you know what? Nevermind that. I’ve been hoping you’d eventually come back with that argument, Mr. “I don’t care about 1.3%”. Only 0.69% (that’s roughly half the 1.3% figure you’re dismissing as too minuscule to care about) of all abortions are, combined, to save the life/health of the mother (0.36%), because of fetal birth defects (0.24%), and rape/***** (0.09%). https://www.hli.org/resources/why-women-abort/ Reconcile. Edited September 13, 2019 by TakeYouToTasker 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: It's not that black and white since there's no clear definition of when life begins. Lack of access to cheap contraceptives leads to a higher rate of unwanted pregnancies causing more women to seek abortions. That's because we live in a completely amoral society. If we had ANY kind of coherent morality in this country, it wouldn't be so vague.
B-Man Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Lack of access to cheap contraceptives leads to a higher rate of unwanted pregnancies causing more women to seek abortions. And say Doc, which party is causing that ??......................and ask yourself why ? Democrats, not Republicans, block over-the-counter birth control https://www.usatoday.com › story › opinion › 2019/06/11 › i-am-a-conser.. Jun 11, 2019 - You might think that Republicans are the ones keeping birth control from being over-the-counter. You would be wrong. Senate Dems rebuke GOP's over-the-counter birth control bill ... https://thehill.com › policy › healthcare › 244448-senate-dems-rebuke-gop... Jun 9, 2015 - A bill from Sen. Murray would force insurers to cover over-the-counter birth control. Over-the-Counter Contraception Is Immensely Popular. But ... https://reason.com › 2019/01/16 › deregulate-the-pill Jan 16, 2019 - Democrats often wax on about a woman's right to take control of her .... who had urged the FDA to stop stalling and threatening to block then–President Bush's ... Making birth control available over the counter played well with ... .
Doc Brown Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 2 hours ago, B-Man said: And say Doc, which party is causing that ??......................and ask yourself why ? Democrats, not Republicans, block over-the-counter birth control https://www.usatoday.com › story › opinion › 2019/06/11 › i-am-a-conser.. Jun 11, 2019 - You might think that Republicans are the ones keeping birth control from being over-the-counter. You would be wrong. Senate Dems rebuke GOP's over-the-counter birth control bill ... https://thehill.com › policy › healthcare › 244448-senate-dems-rebuke-gop... Jun 9, 2015 - A bill from Sen. Murray would force insurers to cover over-the-counter birth control. Over-the-Counter Contraception Is Immensely Popular. But ... https://reason.com › 2019/01/16 › deregulate-the-pill Jan 16, 2019 - Democrats often wax on about a woman's right to take control of her .... who had urged the FDA to stop stalling and threatening to block then–President Bush's ... Making birth control available over the counter played well with ... . From the four year old Hill article, why didn't Republicans propose a bill at the time making over the counter contraceptives like the morning after pill available and maintain the mandate that insurance companies also cover it? Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) on Tuesday unveiled a bill to keep in place the rule that insurance companies must cover contraception, even if certain methods, like birth control pills, become available without a prescription. The bill is a direct rebuke to Senate Republicans who are trying to champion the issue of over-the-counter birth control. That GOP bill has drawn fire from reproductive health groups like Planned Parenthood Action Fund, however, that warn the legislation would force women to again pay out of pocket for their birth control. “If something is too expensive, it doesn’t matter how easy it is to get. It might as well be on the moon,” Murray told reporters Tuesday. Unlike the Republican bill, Murray’s bill would not provide incentives for insurance companies to offer birth control available over the counter. “We have to be very careful not to put political pressure on the FDA without going through the regular process,” Murray said. “I do think at some point, birth control will be offered over the counter, and when that happens, our bill makes sure insurance companies still cover it,” she said.
Joe Miner Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 So I should be able to have sex whenever I want, and if birth control is too expensive, I won't let that keep me from having sex, I just demand that I'm able to get an abortion? So between a woman and her partner, they can't raise the money to purchase a condom? When 2 people can't raise 50 cents, maybe sex shouldn't be what they're focused on? And maybe if your partner isn't willing to help with birth control you shouldn't be ***** him in the first place? This is dumbass argument that entirely skips over the concept of killing a baby.
DC Tom Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 45 minutes ago, Joe Miner said: So I should be able to have sex whenever I want, and if birth control is too expensive, I won't let that keep me from having sex, I just demand that I'm able to get an abortion? So between a woman and her partner, they can't raise the money to purchase a condom? When 2 people can't raise 50 cents, maybe sex shouldn't be what they're focused on? And maybe if your partner isn't willing to help with birth control you shouldn't be ***** him in the first place? This is dumbass argument that entirely skips over the concept of killing a baby. It also entirely skips over the fact that contraception is "free" under Obamacare. 1
3rdnlng Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 7 hours ago, Doc Brown said: From the four year old Hill article, why didn't Republicans propose a bill at the time making over the counter contraceptives like the morning after pill available and maintain the mandate that insurance companies also cover it? Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) on Tuesday unveiled a bill to keep in place the rule that insurance companies must cover contraception, even if certain methods, like birth control pills, become available without a prescription. The bill is a direct rebuke to Senate Republicans who are trying to champion the issue of over-the-counter birth control. That GOP bill has drawn fire from reproductive health groups like Planned Parenthood Action Fund, however, that warn the legislation would force women to again pay out of pocket for their birth control. “If something is too expensive, it doesn’t matter how easy it is to get. It might as well be on the moon,” Murray told reporters Tuesday. Unlike the Republican bill, Murray’s bill would not provide incentives for insurance companies to offer birth control available over the counter. “We have to be very careful not to put political pressure on the FDA without going through the regular process,” Murray said. “I do think at some point, birth control will be offered over the counter, and when that happens, our bill makes sure insurance companies still cover it,” she said. So, over the counter birth control might prevent more pregnancies, thus reducing the amount of abortions and cutting into PP's bottom line? What other purpose would PP have to cut down on unwanted pregnancies?
jrober38 Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Joe Miner said: So I should be able to have sex whenever I want, and if birth control is too expensive, I won't let that keep me from having sex, I just demand that I'm able to get an abortion? So between a woman and her partner, they can't raise the money to purchase a condom? When 2 people can't raise 50 cents, maybe sex shouldn't be what they're focused on? And maybe if your partner isn't willing to help with birth control you shouldn't be ***** him in the first place? This is dumbass argument that entirely skips over the concept of killing a baby. Condoms are only 85% effective.
DC Tom Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 3 hours ago, jrober38 said: Condoms are only 85% effective. Condoms are 98% effective.
jrober38 Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: Condoms are 98% effective. If used correctly, which they're not all the time. Also, think about how many millions of times Americans have sex each year. 2% of those encounters results in a LOT of unplanned babies. Edited September 13, 2019 by jrober38
DC Tom Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 Just now, jrober38 said: If used correctly, which they're not all the time. People are idiots. Condoms aren't. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 Just now, DC Tom said: People are idiots. Condoms aren't. ...And just like that, a campaign slogan was born. 3
DC Tom Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: ...And just like that, a campaign slogan was born. I should sell it to Church & Dwight. 1
jrober38 Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: People are idiots. Condoms aren't. Even if used correctly everytime, which they aren't, a 2% failure rate will result in a ton of unwanted pregnancies.
DC Tom Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Even if used correctly everytime, which they aren't, a 2% failure rate will result in a ton of unwanted pregnancies. Which is 49 tons less than not used at all. People are idiots, you're living proof. 1
jrober38 Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Which is 49 tons less than not used at all. People are idiots, you're living proof. 49 tons? LMAO
B-Man Posted September 13, 2019 Posted September 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: 49 tons? LMAO Geez Tom, you're right. Let's leave the squirrel of condom use, and return to the subject of of abortion. Tulsi Gabbard Breaks With Fellow Democrats: Supports Regulating Abortion in Third Trimester. So............minimal amount, or not, the leading Democrats with killing what would be a viable child. Vote for that, .
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