Problems with making PI reviewable...

[Wilton Bills]

The CFL does it and it works great. Actually the CFL games are more entertaining than most NFL games.

[formerlyofCtown]

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Clearly they can't enforce it by the letter of the law.  Much like there is OL holding on every play, there is hand fighting on every pass play between the DB and the WR.  If they allow that ticky tack stuff to be reviewed and enforced, teams will save their challenges for the 4th quarter, heave bombs, and if no catch or no flag, throw the challenge for a potential 40-50 yard gain.

 

It is somehow going to have to be written in the rules that the PI has to be blatant(good luck defining that).  

 

They may regret going down the road of opening up replay challenges to more plays than currently allowed.

It will never happen because it is so subjective.  The only possibility would be to overturn a PI call that was made.  Not one that wasnt.  Its like holding it happens all the time.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

I agree that bad calls are part of the game but the trend towards the same teams/players routinely benefiting from these calls is making the game unwatchable as well.

 

There is no proof that is true.  You are just making that up.  Bad teams commit more penalties.  Good players and good teams don't.  

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

In your 3rd sentence you mentioned “if they allow to ticky tack stuff to be reviewed...”

 

I think it’s a safe assumption which play in particular this thread is referring to.

 

 

 

Nah. Here's what he said:  "Much like there is OL holding on every play, there is hand fighting on every pass play between the DB and the WR.  If they allow that ticky tack stuff to be reviewed and enforced ..."

 

It's extremely clear that he is NOT referring to that play. He is referring to "hand fighting on every pass play between the DB and the WR," which is why he used the phrase, "that ticky tack stuff".

 

And he's right that if you allow a process to correct plays like the Robey-Coleman PI, you're also opening it to the ticky-tack hand fighting on every play. It's hard to imagine a concrete way to draw a line between egregious and ticky-tack.

 

5 hours ago, whatdrought said:

2: When the league decided that all reviews run through NY, they de facto stated that they have no confidence in the on field refs. If they don't trust them to make a correct call/correct their wrong calls, why should we be forced to trust them on purely subjective calls such as PI and holding?

 

 

 

You're overplaying your hand there. They didn't defacto state that they have no confidence in them. They defacto stated that they're sure they won't be perfect.

 

Nor is anybody.

 

If New Orleans had played better they'd have been ahead enough that the call wouldn't have mattered. The players make mistakes too, and more than the refs. But player mistakes are treated as part of the game.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Thurman#1

[BobbyC81]

6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

.every game will become a three part mini series and alcoholism will increase by 42%............

 

Hey, people in India and other countries love cricket and their matches can last days

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

The CFL does it.

Exactly,  this wouldn't be that complicated.  The CFL had 41 PI plays reviewed and 20 were reversed.  All we ask is get the play right considering how flawed (human) officials are. Might add 5 min. to a game. Big deal....

[whatdrought]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Nah. Here's what he said:  "Much like there is OL holding on every play, there is hand fighting on every pass play between the DB and the WR.  If they allow that ticky tack stuff to be reviewed and enforced ..."

 

It's extremely clear that he is NOT referring to that play. He is referring to "hand fighting on every pass play between the DB and the WR," which is why he used the phrase, "that ticky tack stuff".

 

And he's right that if you allow a process to correct plays like the Robey-Coleman PI, you're also opening it to the ticky-tack hand fighting on every play. It's hard to imagine a concrete way to draw a line between egregious and ticky-tack.

 

 

 

You're overplaying your hand there. They didn't defacto state that they have no confidence in them. They defacto stated that they're sure they won't be perfect.

 

Nor is anybody.

 

If New Orleans had played better they'd have been ahead enough that the call wouldn't have mattered. The players make mistakes too, and more than the refs. But player mistakes are treated as part of the game.

 

I don’t disagree that NO could have won regardless of the no-call. But that argument misses something critical- the Championship game is literally two of the 4 best teams in football. It’s meant to be close. It’s meant to be a game in which each play matters. It was. This wasn’t us bills fans crying about a holding penalty on the patriots 4th scoring drive of the 1st quarter when we have 3 points. This literally was the play that decided the game. This game was so close that any mistake would have ended it. And it did. LA made a mistake and blew coverage. It was a touchdown, or at least a first down. The decision to take the penalty was probably smart by NRC since he was beat, but it doesn’t change the fact that this one play determined the game. The Saints got a second chance in OT and blew it, but they shouldn’t have needed it. They had won the game within the rules, and the rams went outside of the rules and were rewarded.

[Orlando Buffalo]

13 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

If only the refs were full time the results would be better.

I do not understand why you believe this- MLB umps only got better when they were graded on their balls and strikes. The way you improve it is to grade and fire poor officials. Also demanding officials be in better shape will help them be in better position to make calls. Lastly punish those who make up calls whole cloth much worse than those who miss calls.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

13 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

The CFL does it.

Yes, but they had to lose a down to do it...

[That_Guy]

but they still get the same number of challenges and lose a TO if they lose, right?  so if they challenge and there was PI, the 50-60 yard gain should've been applied anyhow.  And if there isn't PI, they lose a TO and waste the challenge.  I don't see the issue myself.  it's only 3 potential challenges which we have the potential for already.

[Southern Bills Fan]

I don't remember everyone on tv screaming for rule changes when an obvious illegal forward lateral on a kickoff changed the outcome of a playoff game.

[boyst]

Just change the rules to the obvious and make it official. The refs and the NFL determine the outcomes to a number of games regularly by ignoring calls.

[mabden]

15 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

 

If they allow that ticky tack stuff to be reviewed and enforced, teams will save their challenges for the 4th quarter, heave bombs, and if no catch or no flag, throw the challenge for a potential 40-50 yard gain.

 

 

This first coach to do this would be... belicheat.

[CLTbills]

14 hours ago, NewEra said:

Use technology.  Wake the **** up

Seriously. 

I know it's not an exact comparison, but NASCAR all but got rid of officials on pit road checking things like lug nuts, whether or not a car is pitted in their box, or whether or not a crew member jumped over the wall too soon. This is ALL monitored by cameras that are programmed to look for and detect these things. (I use this analogy because I used to pit racecars for a living, and then they took the fun out of it.)

 

It CAN be done.

[aristocrat]

they are the most costly of penalties right?  they should be reviewed.  all the other penalties are 5-15 yards and these can be up to 100 in theory.

[Doc]

Make every penalty reviewable.  Especially bull#### roughing-the-passer penalties.

[Matt_In_NH]

I guess I am ok with making PI reviewable for both non calls and called penalties.  I also think called penalties in general should be reviewable.  For instance the phantom roughing the passer on Brady.  They can get that corrected and it is clear.  What I dont think they should do is make non calls in general reviewable.   If they did, anytime there is a TD of 30+ yards you could through the flag and say the LG held and get it reversed...that would suck.  At the end of the day, no system will be perfect but they should continue to improve it.

[Tenhigh]

15 hours ago, NewEra said:

Use technology.  Wake the **** up

100% this.  Why not cam up each official with another in NY that is watching the game with them in realtime via live feed and body cam on the ref.  That way they can tell them to pick up a flag or throw an obvious one that they missed.

 

[papazoid]

dee fords offside penalty cost KC the game (wiped out a change of possession, that likely would have led to KC running out the clock). he and coach reid claim he didn't get the customary verbal warning.

 

the PI penalty that wasn't called didn't singularly determine the outcome (would have only been a first down, but still significant)

 

the side judge Cavaletto  and back judge Prukop should never work another playoff game for a very long time, if not fired. human error from officials calling judgement plays in real time will NEVER be eliminated.

 

after PI, then what about roughing the passer calls, holding, illegal picks, etc....the complaining from the vanquished and their fans will never end, they will just move on to the next outrage. there are already complaints that replays make the game too long.

 

HAVING  SAID ALL THAT.....it can easily be improved and reviewable calls expanded.....when knowledgable people like gene steratore and tony romo can make better snap judgements in 15 seconds than the booth officials do in minutes, that's an area that can be improved.

 

NFL needs a bigger pool of better trained, full time  NFL refs on the field and in the booth. you could start with a massive video conferencing effort from the officials home (eliminate travel to a central location) with maybe 20 hours of classroom video training per week for most of the year, where actual tests are regularly given. based on real game and classroom grading/rating, referees move up and down the starting and practice squad designations.

 

[Chris66]

1 hour ago, mabden said:

 

This first coach to do this would be... belicheat.

Yup and it would be against the Bills negating a td in the divisional game. Everyone would be screaming you cant challenge a penalty that wasnt called.