GDT: NE**** at KC 6:40 on CBS

[BillsFan130]

39 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

lol really?

THAT is what you took away from it?

 

Watkins: hurt.

Woods: best of the bunch

Ragland: ABUSED

 

That's a lousy take, and a pretty transparent attempt at trolling.

 

 

 

Not to mention Whaley could never get the QB situation figured out.

 

He did make a few good moves. Got Hughes in a trade, drafted some good players especially in the later rounds.

 

But he also missed on too many picks and like I said above, he never could find the big piece which was finding the franchise QB

[LSHMEAB]

I have no idea how Brady does what he does with such a diminished arm. It could be argued that this run is the most impressive run considering he's doing it with a slightly better version of Nate Peterman's arm. Hate the guy, but there's no denying his greatness.

 

That game, IMO, was gonna come down to the cointoss in OT. I don't think either QB was going to be denied. Poor Andy just can't catch a break.

Edited January 21, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, the skycap said:

After watching the NFL championship games this week with all the former Bills players involved I can say one thing for certain, Doug Whaley DIDN'T SUCK!!

 

He had a good eye and a good staff for talent evaluation, that was clear.

 

Those who tried to argue he didn't based on how few draft picks were left on the Bills after 3 short-time coaching turnovers (*cough* Tim *cough* Graham *cough*) are an example of mistaking correlation for causation.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

lol really?

THAT is what you took away from it?

 

Watkins: hurt.

Woods: best of the bunch

Ragland: ABUSED

 

That's a lousy take, and a pretty transparent attempt at trolling.

 

 

 

 

Watkins was a major reason that KC was still in it.  Health not talent evaluation is the issue with him.

 

The KC defense as a whole was abused - it was a very poor defensive game plan for the team they were up against.  Ragland was abused if anything less than others and made several key plays.

 

You're correct about Woods though.

 

Note that conceding Whaley's eye for talent evaluation doesn't make him a good GM.  There's more to being a good GM than picking talent - in fact  I would argue the GM really ought to be trusting subordinates to do most of the heavy lifting there, while he focuses more on the strategic picture and cap management.

 

I don't think Whaley had a strategic picture - or rather, he allowed himself to be put in the position of being merely the talent-picker for a succession of HC with disparate schemes - and he deferred to Overdorf or whomever Overdorf reported to (LaMattina?) on all issues of contract and cap.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I have no idea how Brady does what he does with such a diminished arm. It could be argued that this run is the most impressive run considering he's doing it with a slightly better version of Nate Peterman's arm. Hate the guy, but there's no denying his greatness.

 

That game, IMO, was gonna come down to the cointoss in OT. I don't think either QB was going to be denied. Poor Andy just can't catch a break.

 

I will send the WAAAAMulance for poor Andy as a football coach (as a human being, he does deserve sympathy)

 

This is football.  If you're the HC, you got to create your own breaks.  You create them with a culture where idiot moves like lining up Offside happen less often.  You create them by bringing in A grade coaching talent on both sides of the ball, especially on the side where you have less mastery.  And you create them by pressure-testing the game plan on both sides of the ball with your best knowledge.

 

There is no one with an average or above football understanding who could look at the Chief's defensive game plan, watch the San Diego game, and objectively believe KC had devised an effective strategy to contain the Patriots offense. 

 

In addition, there were some peculiar choices on the offensive side of the ball - going for the explosive but low probability play when the less explosive move-the-chains play was there, for example.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I will send the WAAAAMulance for poor Andy as a football coach (as a human being, he does deserve sympathy)

 

This is football.  If you're the HC, you got to create your own breaks.  You create them with a culture where idiot moves like lining up Offside happen less often.  You create them by bringing in A grade coaching talent on both sides of the ball, especially on the side where you have less mastery.  And you create them by pressure-testing the game plan on both sides of the ball with your best knowledge.

 

There is no one with an average or above football understanding who could look at the Chief's defensive game plan, watch the San Diego game, and objectively believe KC had devised an effective strategy to contain the Patriots offense. 

 

In addition, there were some peculiar choices on the offensive side of the ball - going for the explosive but low probability play when the less explosive move-the-chains play was there, for example.

Yep. This imo has been a miracle run for the Pats primarily because they managed to avoid the team they would have been beaten by (Baltimore) and instead drew two uber-talented but flawed playoff contenders in San Diego and KC- Anthony Lynn and his staff got schooled, and then Belichick turned around and punched a hole through Reid/Sutton who apparently didn't learn anything from watching the previous game. 

 

Newflash to Rams- this Patriots team is NOT THAT TALENTED. They are superbly well coached and well managed on both sides of the ball, but they don't stack up man for man against any of these teams they keep beating because their execution and gameplan (on offense- establish the run. WHAT. A. CONCEPT) keep trumping inexperienced talent. The most frustrating thing in the world is watching the Pats get going on the ground early because DCs are so concerned about a 41-year old QB and a tight end held together with elbow braces and HGH. 

[boyst]

I only watch 1 minute and 8 second and then the OT yesterday. I can't speak for the entire game and when I presented my brief viewpoint I was told fatigue may have been an issue but I do not see it as such.  I see it as a poor defense. 

 

The had the strong safety spying on Gronk coming 3 steps up from the backfield to meet Gronk when he was around the pocket.  This took him out of the play because Gronk was blocking and got him to be what I call lost in the wash. He had no specific role in this point other than to play a base scheme role.  When Gronk did go deep he was outside where he was not held up or checked at the line. He manhandled the CB's and was already going to out muscle the coverage over top.  He owned the defenders.  They should have committed a linebacker to check him, if they had a skill set backer capable.  Holding him at the line allowing a smart/capable safety to read gronks play (hips, position, etc) against the entire play.

 

With the safety coming up to the box every play Gronk stayed home he would drop back to his middle of the field, which most cases seemed to be a cover 3 but the cameras never show much. He was there too late to get in front of the crossing edleman and too slow to get outside to offer double coverage against the outside we - Hogan on the completions. 

 

The entire game plan was terrible just by seeing what I saw there and it was an example of piss poor coaching. Coaching lost that game on defense by not being able to scheme to a very pedestrian offense that I saw at the end that worked very efficiently.

 

I'd have gone to nickel and used a nickel back or a good coverage backer deep in coverage to bully Gronk. Good backers are hard to find, though.  A safety/lb hybrid would have done them well. 

[LSHMEAB]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I will send the WAAAAMulance for poor Andy as a football coach (as a human being, he does deserve sympathy)

 

This is football.  If you're the HC, you got to create your own breaks.  You create them with a culture where idiot moves like lining up Offside happen less often.  You create them by bringing in A grade coaching talent on both sides of the ball, especially on the side where you have less mastery.  And you create them by pressure-testing the game plan on both sides of the ball with your best knowledge.

 

There is no one with an average or above football understanding who could look at the Chief's defensive game plan, watch the San Diego game, and objectively believe KC had devised an effective strategy to contain the Patriots offense. 

 

In addition, there were some peculiar choices on the offensive side of the ball - going for the explosive but low probability play when the less explosive move-the-chains play was there, for example.

I'll add wasting 10 seconds prior to calling a TO on the Pats last possession. They could have conceivably had the ball with 50 seconds as opposed to 39. He leaves a lot to be desired as a HC, but I still would have preferred to see him get a ring. Followed him for a long time in Philly and always liked his style.

 

Some people might not think much of that 10 seconds, but the Chiefs could have theoretically had the ball at the NE 22 with 26 seconds if he calls the TO without letting precious seconds run off the clock. With Mahomes improvisational skills and the Chiefs weapons, who knows? It's all a footnote in history at this point.

2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I only watch 1 minute and 8 second and then the OT yesterday. I can't speak for the entire game and when I presented my brief viewpoint I was told fatigue may have been an issue but I do not see it as such.  I see it as a poor defense. 

 

The had the strong safety spying on Gronk coming 3 steps up from the backfield to meet Gronk when he was around the pocket.  This took him out of the play because Gronk was blocking and got him to be what I call lost in the wash. He had no specific role in this point other than to play a base scheme role.  When Gronk did go deep he was outside where he was not held up or checked at the line. He manhandled the CB's and was already going to out muscle the coverage over top.  He owned the defenders.  They should have committed a linebacker to check him, if they had a skill set backer capable.  Holding him at the line allowing a smart/capable safety to read gronks play (hips, position, etc) against the entire play.

 

With the safety coming up to the box every play Gronk stayed home he would drop back to his middle of the field, which most cases seemed to be a cover 3 but the cameras never show much. He was there too late to get in front of the crossing edleman and too slow to get outside to offer double coverage against the outside we - Hogan on the completions. 

 

The entire game plan was terrible just by seeing what I saw there and it was an example of piss poor coaching. Coaching lost that game on defense by not being able to scheme to a very pedestrian offense that I saw at the end that worked very efficiently.

 

I'd have gone to nickel and used a nickel back or a good coverage backer deep in coverage to bully Gronk. Good backers are hard to find, though.  A safety/lb hybrid would have done them well. 

Andy Reid hasn't been able to find a DC since Jim Johnson passed. Horrible defensive gameplan and all solid points.

Edited January 21, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I only watch 1 minute and 8 second and then the OT yesterday. I can't speak for the entire game and when I presented my brief viewpoint I was told fatigue may have been an issue but I do not see it as such.  I see it as a poor defense. 

 

The had the strong safety spying on Gronk coming 3 steps up from the backfield to meet Gronk when he was around the pocket.  This took him out of the play because Gronk was blocking and got him to be what I call lost in the wash. He had no specific role in this point other than to play a base scheme role.  When Gronk did go deep he was outside where he was not held up or checked at the line. He manhandled the CB's and was already going to out muscle the coverage over top.  He owned the defenders.  They should have committed a linebacker to check him, if they had a skill set backer capable.  Holding him at the line allowing a smart/capable safety to read gronks play (hips, position, etc) against the entire play.

 

With the safety coming up to the box every play Gronk stayed home he would drop back to his middle of the field, which most cases seemed to be a cover 3 but the cameras never show much. He was there too late to get in front of the crossing edleman and too slow to get outside to offer double coverage against the outside we - Hogan on the completions. 

 

The entire game plan was terrible just by seeing what I saw there and it was an example of piss poor coaching. Coaching lost that game on defense by not being able to scheme to a very pedestrian offense that I saw at the end that worked very efficiently.

 

I'd have gone to nickel and used a nickel back or a good coverage backer deep in coverage to bully Gronk. Good backers are hard to find, though.  A safety/lb hybrid would have done them well. 

 

I think this is a fair analysis of the flaws the KC D showed in the entire game.  They were eaten alive by Gronk outside and Edelman crossing and never did adjust.  Add in, early in the game they were just being gashed consistently against the run.  They never managed to put any effective pressure on Brady.

 

I don't know whether KC had anyone on the roster with the hybrid skills to carry out your suggestion on Gronk.  The safety play was better earlier in the game but by the end of the 4th/OT was just gassed.  NE had greater than 2:1 advantage in TOP.  You can't keep any defender on the field 44 out of 60 minutes and not slow him down.

[boyst]

9 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'll add wasting 10 seconds prior to calling a TO on the Pats last possession. They could have conceivably had the ball with 50 seconds as opposed to 39. He leaves a lot to be desired as a HC, but I still would have preferred to see him get a ring. Followed him for a long time in Philly and always liked his style.

 

Some people might not think much of that 10 seconds, but the Chiefs could have theoretically had the ball at the NE 22 with 26 seconds if he calls the TO without letting precious seconds run off the clock. With Mahomes improvisational skills and the Chiefs weapons, who knows? It's all a footnote in history at this point.

Andy Reid hasn't been able to find a DC since Jim Johnson passed. Horrible defensive gameplan and all solid points.

Further, not that I watched much but it was clear by seeing the backfield...

What the hell happened to the NE* line. The KC DL wasn't that impressive because they didn't seem to get to Brady but they really had to invest a lot to block for him. It's quite sad, too. Burkhead is solid runner and I really wonder how much he was used earlier in the game because he could have just ran ran all game to keep the potent KC offense on the bench. (The KC series I saw was not a healthy looking offense).

 

The KC DL did nothing. If I had time I would watch a Rams game or see what they did to Brees. Brees is much more poised in the pocket than Brady. Brees stays cool and keeps playing but has the bad spells of INT's in some games.  Brady gets hot under pressure and either galvinizes to overcome or folds under the scheme in front of him. 

 

If the Rams can take away his first two reads in 2 seconds once he is planted and then keep his check down pressured they can create coverage issues where they don't hAve to get a sack but they can generate incompletes.  By my understanding of what LA is capable of - I would hope LA comes out and brings a pass rush without the blitz for much of the game and then work in to stunts and by the 2nd quarter with blitzes coming later.  Brady is too smart not to capitalize on a corner blitz.  He is smart enough to call out an inside blitz. But, LA should be able to beat the Pats OL consistently and dictating a scheme which keeps a RB in the backfield much of the game.

 

If NE can establish a run they win. They didn't win yesterday. KC ***** the bed.

[apuszczalowski]

3 hours ago, the skycap said:

After watching the NFL championship games this week with all the former Bills players involved I can say one thing for certain, Doug Whaley DIDN'T SUCK!!

But how many of those players had a real impact on their team during the game, how many had a serious impact on their season?

 

Most of them are players the fans didnt like until they were gone. Some, like Woods fans wanted back but not for what they were paid. Would people have been happy with Watkins production at his salary if be was playing here? 

[boyst]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think this is a fair analysis of the flaws the KC D showed in the entire game.  They were eaten alive by Gronk outside and Edelman crossing and never did adjust.  Add in, early in the game they were just being gashed consistently against the run.  They never managed to put any effective pressure on Brady.

 

I don't know whether KC had anyone on the roster with the hybrid skills to carry out your suggestion on Gronk.  The safety play was better earlier in the game but by the end of the 4th/OT was just gassed.  NE had greater than 2:1 advantage in TOP.  You can't keep any defender on the field 44 out of 60 minutes and not slow him down.

It's why KC is a paper tiger. They're the modern phili from a while back. Good on paper. Capable of good play but cannot out it together for big games against worthy opponents.

 

I can see the Rams giving NE* trouble but I have little doubt that NE* can win easily.

 

Of course, I've watch a combined 30 minutes of non Bills games this year.  

[LSHMEAB]

12 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Further, not that I watched much but it was clear by seeing the backfield...

What the hell happened to the NE* line. The KC DL wasn't that impressive because they didn't seem to get to Brady but they really had to invest a lot to block for him. It's quite sad, too. Burkhead is solid runner and I really wonder how much he was used earlier in the game because he could have just ran ran all game to keep the potent KC offense on the bench. (The KC series I saw was not a healthy looking offense).

 

The KC DL did nothing. If I had time I would watch a Rams game or see what they did to Brees. Brees is much more poised in the pocket than Brady. Brees stays cool and keeps playing but has the bad spells of INT's in some games.  Brady gets hot under pressure and either galvinizes to overcome or folds under the scheme in front of him. 

 

If the Rams can take away his first two reads in 2 seconds once he is planted and then keep his check down pressured they can create coverage issues where they don't hAve to get a sack but they can generate incompletes.  By my understanding of what LA is capable of - I would hope LA comes out and brings a pass rush without the blitz for much of the game and then work in to stunts and by the 2nd quarter with blitzes coming later.  Brady is too smart not to capitalize on a corner blitz.  He is smart enough to call out an inside blitz. But, LA should be able to beat the Pats OL consistently and dictating a scheme which keeps a RB in the backfield much of the game.

 

If NE can establish a run they win. They didn't win yesterday. KC ***** the bed.

Nobody seems to be able to take away those quick reads and it's maddening. Brady is so damn good at diagnosing the defense and getting Edelman into a one on one matchup with a linebacker. If I'm implementing a gameplan, I'm dedicating a corner to Edelman. Not sure it would work as Brady is so damn good pre-snap and would probably hit Burkhead or White or whoever out of the backfield somehow, but I'm not letting the bearded guy beat me for 8-12 yards at a time, especially on third and 10!

 

As far as KC's defensive front, it's not very stout. They got gashed pretty good whenever NE decided to run it up the gut. I would even attribute that to Brady. Seems like every time he checks to a run play, it goes for 6 plus yards. Sickening.

Edited January 21, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Nobody seems to be able to take away those quick reads and it's maddening. Brady is so damn good at diagnosing the defense and getting Edelman into a one on one matchup with a linebacker. If I'm implementing a gameplan, I'm dedicating a corner to Edelman. Not sure it would work as Brady is so damn good pre-snap and would probably hit Burkhead of White or whoever out of the backfield somehow, but I'm not letting the bearded guy beat me for 8-12 yards at a time, especially on third and 10!

 

As far as KC's defensive front, it's not very stout. They got gashed pretty good whenever NE decided to run it up the gut. I would even attribute that to Brady. Seems like every time he checks to a run play, it goes for 6 plus yards. Sickening.

A linebacker planted in the middle to knock tf out of anyone crossing the route and playing to Brady's eyes, and a safety over his shoulder would cover the middle. 

 

You don't have to, because you won't be able to, shut down edleman but you can certainly rock his ass and light him up.

 

There are 11 players on defense. And it seemed like NE* only played against 5 yesterday. They completely shut down the DL with extra blockers.  They didn't bother with outside coverage. And linebackers just seemed to be out of place all the time

 

KC played terrible. No discipline. No heart. 

[TheFunPolice]

KC had the 31st ranked defense all season

 

That's why KC lost games where the offense put up 40 and 50 points.

 

Still they somehow picked Brady off 3 times in a game where NE moved the ball at will.

 

Shut down the running game and you stop NE.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Further, not that I watched much but it was clear by seeing the backfield...

What the hell happened to the NE* line. The KC DL wasn't that impressive because they didn't seem to get to Brady but they really had to invest a lot to block for him. It's quite sad, too. Burkhead is solid runner and I really wonder how much he was used earlier in the game because he could have just ran ran all game to keep the potent KC offense on the bench.

 

NE was leaning on Michel most of the game.  39 carries for 113 yds, most of it in the 1st half.  3.9 ypc isn't great but it moves the chains and keeps WonderQB seated.

Burkhead was on IR much of the season and one wonders if he is 100% healthy, 12 carries and not as effective as Michel.  Still gained 41 yds for them.

 

"Run run all game" was essentially the NE strategy to start out.   Finally after the half KC decided to sell out and stop the run, and that's when Brady used Edelman and Hogan to dissect them as you described above.

 

 

[WideNine]

48 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Nobody seems to be able to take away those quick reads and it's maddening. Brady is so damn good at diagnosing the defense and getting Edelman into a one on one matchup with a linebacker. If I'm implementing a gameplan, I'm dedicating a corner to Edelman. Not sure it would work as Brady is so damn good pre-snap and would probably hit Burkhead or White or whoever out of the backfield somehow, but I'm not letting the bearded guy beat me for 8-12 yards at a time, especially on third and 10!

 

As far as KC's defensive front, it's not very stout. They got gashed pretty good whenever NE decided to run it up the gut. I would even attribute that to Brady. Seems like every time he checks to a run play, it goes for 6 plus yards. Sickening.

 

Brady can get away with his noodle arm because he knows who is uncovered, and they rest it with plenty of rushing reps.

 

The whole NE game plan goes up in smoke if Mahomes and the Chiefs did not end so many early drives with punts, and rather put up some points. It was playing with a lead which allowed the Pats to keep running and eating up the clock.

 

NE abandoned that later, but by that time the chiefs had to respect the play action and run threat they posed.

 

NE gets calls at key times that gives them more chances than they need, but that Offside by the Chiefs negated what could have been the clincher. Sucks to be in the same division as Belichick....Welcome to our world Chiefs.

[boyst]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

NE was leaning on Michel most of the game.  39 carries for 113 yds, most of it in the 1st half.  3.9 ypc isn't great but it moves the chains and keeps WonderQB seated.

Burkhead was on IR much of the season and one wonders if he is 100% healthy, 12 carries and not as effective as Michel.  Still gained 41 yds for them.

 

"Run run all game" was essentially the NE strategy to start out.   Finally after the half KC decided to sell out and stop the run, and that's when Brady used Edelman and Hogan to dissect them as you described above.

 

 

They had the KC DL held back at the end of the game, they weren't aggressive. Makes sense why they were so pussyfooted

[TheFunPolice]

On 1/20/2019 at 10:25 PM, TheFunPolice said:

Rex Ryan will be new Chiefs DC BTW

 

Rex is about to instill some attitude on that defense

[apuszczalowski]

13 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Rex is about to instill some attitude on that defense

Can you imagine the catering bills for the team if this happens having Rex and Reid? Just wait until he brings Rob in as one of his assistants........