The GAME when you knew the Bills HC wasn't the guy!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

A specific Gailey game was 2011, Bills against Bengals. Coming off a 3-0 start the Bills went to Cincinnati with a chance to go 4-0 for the first time since 2008. 

 

They led 17-0 or something to that at the end of the first half. Then then relaxed in the second half and the Bengals came back and won.

 

I remember the postgame where Bills players said that the Bengals had “folded” every other time the Bills played them, so they expected that again. 

 

I hated that game because it showed the Bills were no different. That 3-0 start and beating the Patriots was the peak. Sure enough the decline happened quickly after the Bills blew that game in New York later that season. 

 

The Dolphins game later that year where they lost 37-8 or something in which the media said that Bills players were having their helmets blown off their heads comes to mind. 

 

Mentally weak. 

 

Fitzpatrick commented after the year that the Bills didn’t handle success well. At 5-2 they thought they had arrived. 

[haroldwaide]

The 6-3 loss to the browns did it for me.  I remember telling my wife in the third quarter that there was more action in the stands then on the field.  By the 4th quarter, I was openly chanting for DJ to get fired...

Edited January 20, 2019 by haroldwaide

[uticaclub]

14 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Interesting. I had a different game in very close proximity to that game in the same season. We went down and smoked Miami following that loss to NE. 2-1 and I was feeling kind of upbeat.

 

When we laid an egg AT HOME against a very beatable Giants team, I really felt like Rex was gonna be nothing more than a 500 coach.

 

I'm not giving up on McDermott, but that home loss to the Saints was a gut punch. Yes, Tyrod was bad, but the way the Saints ran the ball had me questioning if McD had lost the team. He's done enough to garner some hope, but those kind of blowouts need to stop.

That Giants game was bull####. We took the lead 2 different times, but the TDS got called back from phantom holding calls. If you look at stats those Rex teams were penalized a lot, if you remember the games most of those calls didn’t happen

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I was going to post this moment and there was booing in the crowd.  I remember ensuring everybody in my section that it was going to be a fake punt.  Of course they punt it and it's a touchback. 

 

At most a smattering of boos........VERY little reaction from fans relative to what would happen today.

 

Now the entire stadium would be yelling "GO!" the minute the 3rd down play fell short and the negative response would have been deafening had McD punted in that situation in a game today.

 

It made no sense even if they had a good defense......but that defense could not stop the run and the Pats were just running it down their throats and he was playing like he had the 85' Bears defense.    

 

Just showed how out of touch Williams was with the capabilities of the roster that he and Donahoe tore down to fit into his ideal.

 

Most disgusted I've ever been with a HC.

 

[JohnC]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

For me with Chan it was week 1 of 2012. We had the hot start in 2011 and then in fairness were decimated by injuries. In 2012 with Mario added and most of the offense returning I really thought the team was ready to make a run at least. They got physically bashed by the Jets week 1 and I admitted I was wrong to be adamant that Chan came back in 2012. He was a nice guy but not a good enough HC. The rest of the year from there felt like a slow death. 

 

With Rex it was the London game against the Jags in year 1. Despite everything we had the lead with just over 2 minutes to go and Bortles starting in the shadow of his own posts inside his own 10. Yet the defensive mastermind spent the whole drive dropping Mario to cover the tight end instead of rushing the passer and the Jags marched down and scored. I'd have fired him on the spot. It was over for me with him from that point. 

 

 

Buddy had this pernicious desire to show the world how smart he is. Instead of being fundamentally sound he wanted to be recklessly creative in order to demonstrate his creative talents. He wasn't willing to be boringly good because that fundamental style of play doesn't garner much attention. While the New England coach is maniacally stressing the fundamentals on the practice field our cartoonish coach was in his offense designing complex plays to be executed by a team lacking in fundamentals.

 

This huckster hoodwinking our billionaire new owner to hire him after his record and history were in plain view was a testament to the owner's lack of knowledge in his new business. The blame is on the owner for this fiasco. This stupendous mistake set this franchise back by at least two years. 

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

For me, it usually never went as far as an actual game. I could see the stupidity in offseason moves and preseason play to realize that this was a bad hire to begin with. The QB situations, the offensive lines it showed season after season. 

 

Gregg Williams in his second year had acquired QB Drew Bledsoe from a trade with the Patriots... who everyone in the world knew by this time that Drew needed supreme protection to win games. After a sack or two and Bledsoe was seeing/hearing phantom rushers and he could never get into a rhythm after that.  New GM/team Tom Donahoe president screwed the pooch in the 2012 draft and drafted the wrong LT in Mike Williams at the #4 spot as he didn't even make a decent RT. Two spots later the Vikes draft McKinnie who is an all pro at LT.

 

The Bills even had Kevin Gilbride as OC at that time. A man who would later go on to be the OC for the SB winning NY Giants. The thing is Donahoe must have known he needed a better line and attempted to up grade it with a new LT. When that failed he gave up on building a better line. Instead Bledsoe was instructed to get the ball out quicker. Sure, ask the QB who has been in the league 10 years, and had taken a team to the SB to change his play style. 

 

These defensive minded head coaches wanting to draft and build a defense first... somehow they forget to fully build the offense. Gregg Williams, Dick Jauron, Rex Ryan. Then the offensive minded head coaches in Mike Mularkey, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone and even those guys didn't think to build better offensive lines to protect the QBs they had.

 

Now this past year the franchise finally drafts a QB in the top 10 for the first time in their storied 50+ year history and put that rookie behind one of the very worst offensive lines in the history of the Buffalo Bills. 

 

If this regime fails to build a top quality offensive line to protect that young QB and build a better ground game, then this regime will also fail just like all the rest of them. Most Bills fans saw the writing on the wall before the 2018 season started and knew it would be a down year when the FO didn't properly replace Woods, Incognito.

 

The 64-65 AFL Championship years this franchise had one of the best offensive lines in the league. Same with those late 80s, early 90's Jim Kelly years as they had one of the best O lines year after year. All pro, pro bowl players at C, OG, LT. Those years the Bills defense was very good and the offense was even better. 

 

 

Terrific post. What you are saying is so logical and basic. When you put your most valuable asset (qb) in peril you are wasting his value. 

 

Last year, it was unexpected that Woods was not going to play because of a health issue. I'm not sure why this regime put the financial squeeze on Incognito when we could have handled his original contract for another year. There may be more to the Incognito saga that we are not privy to. So I'll give the organization a pass. But entering next season the glaring deficiencies are well known. There is plenty of talk coming out of their building that the braintrust knows what it needs to do on offense. Let's hope that it gets done. 

[cba fan]

15 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Interesting. I had a different game in very close proximity to that game in the same season. We went down and smoked Miami following that loss to NE. 2-1 and I was feeling kind of upbeat.

 

When we laid an egg AT HOME against a very beatable Giants team, I really felt like Rex was gonna be nothing more than a 500 coach.

 

I'm not giving up on McDermott, but that home loss to the Saints was a gut punch. Yes, Tyrod was bad, but the way the Saints ran the ball had me questioning if McD had lost the team. He's done enough to garner some hope, but those kind of blowouts need to stop.

that was the game for me also. A Giants WR caught what looked like a long pass but on replay it clearly showed the ball hit the ground. Clear, plain, and obvious, to everyone except Bills in booth and/or Rex. No challenge by Rex.

 

Then virtually same thing happened in Bengals game on long pass play at home later and then to triple dumb it down further the almost exact same thing happened on the road against the Chiefs later in season. A trifecta if you will.

Then in another situation in Chiefs game to quadruple dumb it down Rex did not to challenge a clear short of first down run by Alex Smith that was not even close yet ref mistakenly marked it a first down. No challenge. Then Bills chaplain advise Rex not to challenge a Hogan catch that would have been allowed had he challenged.

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/11/bills_rex_ryan_vows_to_change_system_for_challenging_plays_after_embarrassment_i.html

 

There were other challenge mistakes also.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, cba fan said:

that was the game for me also. A Giants WR caught what looked like a long pass but on replay it clearly showed the ball hit the ground. Clear, plain, and obvious, to everyone except Bills in booth and/or Rex. No challenge by Rex.

 

Then virtually same thing happened in Bengals game on long pass play at home later and then to triple dumb it down further the almost exact same thing happened on the road against the Chiefs later in season. A trifecta if you will.

Then in another situation in Chiefs game to quadruple dumb it down Rex did not to challenge a clear short of first down run by Alex Smith that was not even close yet ref mistakenly marked it a first down. No challenge. Then Bills chaplain advise Rex not to challenge a Hogan catch that would have been allowed had he challenged.

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/11/bills_rex_ryan_vows_to_change_system_for_challenging_plays_after_embarrassment_i.html

 

There were other challenge mistakes also.

AJ Green shredded our D in that Bengals game. Ugh. Not quite sure if it was Gilmore or someone else, but there was more than one jumpball where the defender had solid coverage and simply didn't adjust well enough. Green was in peak form, but the CB play left something to be desired. You can't jump with him, but you can at least try to swat it away when he's coming down with it.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...the day Wrecks was hired before getting anywhere near the field......a waste of two years in this club's lore......thanks Russ........

[RoyBatty is alive]

2015 After the Kansas City debacle, i had zero confidence in Rex Ryan, it was one of the most embarrassing displays ever by a seasoned HC in the NFL.  He blatantly missed 2 opportunities to challenge obviously wrong calls and didnt, he then panicked and called two he should have.  Then at the press conference, he admitted he didn't know how the instant replay system worked, after being a HC in the NFL for 6 years!

 

I was 95% done with Rex after the Jacksonville debacle in London. If you recall, the Bills were constantly late substituting players on defense.  One one of their TDs we had 10 men on the field and they threw it to a totally uncovered WR for a TD. Classic Rex.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by RoyBatty is alive

[JK Fan]

12 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

I remember it very well.

 

November 17, 2008 - The year we started 5-2.  We still had a chance for playoffs.  Monday Night at The Ralph. Brady Quinn's first start for the Clowns. Trent throws 3 picks in his first 4 possesions.  Bill battle back.  

 

clowns kick FG to go up 29-27 with 1:44 left. Fred returns KO to Bills 44. Trent completes 22 yard pass to Robert Royal putting us on Clowns 34 with 1:03 left. Dick camps out there.3 straight.Beast up the middle runs for a total of 5 yards. Then Lindell misses 47 yarder wide right.

 

I jumped off the Dick bandwagon that night ?.

Yea this was the game for me.  This night, I knew Dick and Trent were done.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

Why the hell are there sooooo many of these.  Eh, life as a Bills fan. Now I have to watch NE in their 8th straight AFC Championship. It's just disgusting. They better lose.

[Nextmanup]

10 minutes ago, BillsRdue said:

Why the hell are there sooooo many of these.  Eh, life as a Bills fan. Now I have to watch NE in their 8th straight AFC Championship. It's just disgusting. They better lose.

Why are you projecting Bills failure onto another teams historic success?

 

Like it or not, NE represents everything we wish the Bills organization could be some day.  Well, not if you assume they are a bunch of cheaters, but I do not think of their success as cheating related.  

 

They have the best coach and QB of all time; that's all you need to win all the time for years on end in the NFL, apparently.

 

The rest are "fill in" players.  

 

Now watch the Bills draft a fill-in player with our first pick in the upcoming draft!

 

 

 

 

[teef]

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Why are you projecting Bills failure onto another teams historic success?

 

Like it or not, NE represents everything we wish the Bills organization could be some day.  Well, not if you assume they are a bunch of cheaters, but I do not think of their success as cheating related.  

 

They have the best coach and QB of all time; that's all you need to win all the time for years on end in the NFL, apparently.

 

The rest are "fill in" players.  

 

Now watch the Bills draft a fill-in player with our first pick in the upcoming draft!

 

 

 

 

Self hating bills fans are the worst. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

11 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

December 10, 2017.

 

Week 14, Colts at Bills in the crazy snow game.

 

McDermott's decision to punt from the Colts' 41 yard line in OT, in a game where a tie was the equivalent of a loss in a tight playoff race--and McDermott didn't know it.

 

The decision to punt on 4th and 1, based on the available data, was straight up wrong.  On top of that, McDermott burned a timeout before the punt to think about it a little, in a situation where the TO was valuable. 

 

But worst of all, the punt meant that the most likely outcome of the game was a tie.  When pressed on the issue the next day, McDermott said "I was thinking a win is better than a tie, and a tie is better than a loss".  He was clearly thinking about a tie when the punt was made and clearly thinking that was OK, if not the best outcome. 

That was not OK, as we had to play NE in Week 16, and the only intelligent approach was to assume we lose that game.  We did lose that game as it turned out, 37-16.  

Had we tied the Colts game, we would have ended up 8-7-1 at best (assuming the loss to NE) and that was not going to get us into the playoffs.  That has to be your thinking as HC of the Bills in that moment.  A tie had to be viewed as an unacceptable outcome.  It's actually a very easy decision to go for it on 4th and 1 in that situation.  Yet McDermott punted. 

 

Of course, we did win the Colts game as it turned out and in fact made the playoffs!  Sometimes it really is better to be lucky than good.  Neither of those outcomes changes how bad McDermott's thinking was in the game, however.

 

The game showed me who McDermott is--an extremely conservative, traditional football guy, who is never going to outsmart Bill B. or any of the smartest coaches in the league. 

 

The premise of this thread was to reference games where we knew the coach would never get us to the playoffs or possibly even a winning record.  That is obviously not my point here.  My point is the Snow Game showed me the caliber of McDermott's thinking and that it's not what I'd like it to be.  We can do better. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mentioned the high-level and probably lazy version of this.  I had forgotten the timeout he had used before that too. Brutal. 

 

But yeah, it's hard to see him ever being a guy that's going to outsmart a top coach. The hope with him will be that he'll be a good teacher and we'll have so much talent that it'll soften the blow of how bad a game manager he is. 

We could definitely do better than McDermott, I think he's a dime a dozen guy. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by HomeskillitMoorman

[Nextmanup]

12 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

I mentioned the high-level and probably lazy version of this.  I had forgotten the timeout he had used before that too. Brutal. 

 

But yeah, it's hard to see him ever being a guy that's going to outsmart a top coach. The hope with him will be that he'll be a good teacher and we'll have so much talent that it'll soften the blow of how bad a game manager he is. 

We could definitely do better than McDermott, I think he's a dime a dozen guy. 

He has consistently demonstrated that, to my satisfaction at least.

 

Where I think he excels is in the motivation department.  I don't recall the team coming out flat and playing unenthusiastic football; that is a big part of an NFL coach's job and McD does that pretty well I think.

 

But that aspect of coaching only takes you so far.

 

 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

1 hour ago, teef said:

Self hating bills fans are the worst. 

How'd you pull that one out of your ass? Nobody's self hating.. It's an observation that we've been through ten coaches that can't hold a candle to NE and it's a bit painful to watch year after year. Self-Inflicted torture being a Bills fan, maybe. But self-hating and you are reflecting on yourself not me. 

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

Like it or not, NE represents everything we wish the Bills organization could be some day.  Well, not if you assume they are a bunch of cheaters, but I do not think of their success as cheating related. 

 

Does any person on this board like this fact. I don't think so, and it's why our hatred of them runs so deep.

[teef]

15 minutes ago, BillsRdue said:

How'd you pull that one out of your ass? Nobody's self hating.. It's an observation that we've been through ten coaches that can't hold a candle to NE and it's a bit painful to watch year after year. Self-Inflicted torture being a Bills fan, maybe. But self-hating and you are reflecting on yourself not me. 

 

Does any person on this board like this fact. I don't think so, and it's why our hatred of them runs so deep.

That poster is a self hating bills fan. I have no idea who you are, our why you’re responding. I am not “self reflecting”.  That makes no sense. 

[Doc Brown]

11 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

December 10, 2017.

 

Week 14, Colts at Bills in the crazy snow game.

 

McDermott's decision to punt from the Colts' 41 yard line in OT, in a game where a tie was the equivalent of a loss in a tight playoff race--and McDermott didn't know it.

 

The decision to punt on 4th and 1, based on the available data, was straight up wrong.  On top of that, McDermott burned a timeout before the punt to think about it a little, in a situation where the TO was valuable. 

 

But worst of all, the punt meant that the most likely outcome of the game was a tie.  When pressed on the issue the next day, McDermott said "I was thinking a win is better than a tie, and a tie is better than a loss".  He was clearly thinking about a tie when the punt was made and clearly thinking that was OK, if not the best outcome. 

That was not OK, as we had to play NE in Week 16, and the only intelligent approach was to assume we lose that game.  We did lose that game as it turned out, 37-16.  

Had we tied the Colts game, we would have ended up 8-7-1 at best (assuming the loss to NE) and that was not going to get us into the playoffs.  That has to be your thinking as HC of the Bills in that moment.  A tie had to be viewed as an unacceptable outcome.  It's actually a very easy decision to go for it on 4th and 1 in that situation.  Yet McDermott punted. 

 

Of course, we did win the Colts game as it turned out and in fact made the playoffs!  Sometimes it really is better to be lucky than good.  Neither of those outcomes changes how bad McDermott's thinking was in the game, however.

 

The game showed me who McDermott is--an extremely conservative, traditional football guy, who is never going to outsmart Bill B. or any of the smartest coaches in the league. 

 

The premise of this thread was to reference games where we knew the coach would never get us to the playoffs or possibly even a winning record.  That is obviously not my point here.  My point is the Snow Game showed me the caliber of McDermott's thinking and that it's not what I'd like it to be.  We can do better.

That's what drove me nuts about it.  With where we were in the standings we HAD to win that game and he seemed content for playing for a tie.  He wouldn't have been fired, but fans would've ripped the decision all offseason.  Some also wouldn't be looking at him with rose colored glasses this season either.

[PUNT750]

Oh that Hank Bullough - parts of 1985 and 1986.  Everyone knew the minute he was promoted from DC to replace poor Kay Stephenson that he WAS NOT the man.  In one of his post game press conferences he stated while explaining his process of improving the team "if we stick with it, the L's and W's will come".