BillsVet Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 12:40 PM, Magox said: Whomever this FO drafts I will have faith that they are making the right choice. I cant remember a time over the past 20 years where we had so many quality starters/prospects in 2 consecutive years of drafts/undrafted rookie prospects chosen. White Dawkins Zay Milano Josh Allen Tremaine Edmund's Harrison Phillip's Taron Johnson Robert Foster Wyatt Teller Josh Allen being the most important one of them and thankfully Beane seemingly making the right choice here, just going by their track record and the great scouting staff they have (NFL teams are poaching our guys for a change), I think they are going to end up with another great draft. And if they are able to have another successful draft then that will surely set this organization up for many contested Division titles over the next decade. Expand Maybe let's judge this group when they've got more than anywhere from half to 2 full seasons of NFL experience before getting excited. Posts like this were all the rage back in 2006-07 after Marv's first drafts and the end result is expectations didn't meet reality.
Magox Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 7:01 PM, BillsVet said: Maybe let's judge this group when they've got more than anywhere from half to 2 full seasons of NFL experience before getting excited. Posts like this were all the rage back in 2006-07 after Marv's first drafts and the end result is expectations didn't meet reality. Expand You do you
JohnC Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 4:28 PM, HappyDays said: What's more likely, that McDermott decided to draft 4 players who met with Carolina because he knew what they could do, or that he let the lame duck GM run a draft a day before being fired and Whaley just happened to pick 4 players Carolina was scouting? I don't get the belief that Whaley ran that draft. If a CEO was going to fire a VP, would he let him make a huge decision about the future of the company the day before he was let go? It isn't sensible and there is plenty of evidence that McDermott was calling the shots based on what he knew from Carolina's scouting. Expand I'm sure the scouting reports he read while at Carolina were a factor in his selections when he moved to Buffalo. Most people would concede what's so obvious. But I don't see anything wrong or unethical about that. (Not saying you are suggesting that. ) When coaches move they also have intimate knowledge of players associated with their program and also knowledge about players they regularly compete against. All teams have draft boards and they also have pro player rankings and contract information related to players in the league. There's nothing secretive or proprietary about that information when a staff member changes organization. If Carolina was irritated about someone using their scouting reports for another team I can understand why. But the nature of the business sometimes works in your favor and it sometimes works against you. That's just the nature of the business.
bigK14094 Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 4:37 PM, billspro said: Cajuste is my favourite OT in the draft. I surprised he isn’t getting first round consideration, but I will happily take him in round 2. Expand I recall Buddy Nix saying....."always draft tackles, and if they can't play tackle, move them to guard" 1
Nextmanup Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 1:11 PM, Meazy26 said: Man, with 10 picks and close to 90 mil in cap space, the light is shining bright! Expand Remember, the picks and cap space don't automatically make this team better. It's a tricky minefield these guys are going to have to navigate, and luring top FA talent to Buffalo is not easy, if not straight up borderline impossible. How well they do in this off-season will decide if they stay or go. McBeane that is.
Magox Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 8:06 PM, Nextmanup said: Remember, the picks and cap space don't automatically make this team better. It's a tricky minefield these guys are going to have to navigate, and luring top FA talent to Buffalo is not easy, if not straight up borderline impossible. How well they do in this off-season will decide if they stay or go. McBeane that is. Expand I agree that what transpires this off-season is important, but ultimately what will determine their fate more so is Allen's development.
BillsFan1988 Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 5:00 PM, Thurman#1 said: Yup. Two GMs. McDermott ran the first draft, and then Beane. And yeah they traded talented players. Which has nothing to do with how well they seem, so far, to have picked. They still have a lot to prove but so far so good in their drafts. Expand 2 solid drafts . We missed out on some big talents though if u think about it. Mahomes, Juju, Galladay, Kupp, Dede Westbrook, Kamara, Cohen, Hunt & Kittle . On 1/19/2019 at 4:16 PM, HappyDays said: I will go to my grave believing that McDermott used Carolina's draft board that year. Look at this list of players Carolina met with pre-draft: https://panthergf.wordpress.com/2017/02/28/2017-draft-prospect-visit-workout-meeting-list/ Tre'Davious White Zay Jones Dion Dawkins Tanner Vallejo That's our first 3 picks and 1 of our late round picks that met with Carolina. We also traded ahead of Carolina to get Zay Jones, and his college WR coach at ECU was our WR coach that year. Here's who the Bills had as pre-draft visitors: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/04/2017_nfl_draft_buffalo_bills_private_workout_and_pre-draft_visitor_list.html The only match is Nate Peterman. No way this is just a coincidence. Whaley had nothing to do with that draft. Well maybe he put in a good word for Peterman, it wouldn't surprise me. Expand Now we can all take it to the grave that Mcd was the one that passed on Mahomes and a ton of other top talent players that got drafted that yr.
BillsFan1988 Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 5:19 PM, Thurman#1 said: Yup. All males. Mostly Americans. Athletically talented. But no, there are plenty of teams that aren't particularly happy with their last two drafts. Plenty of teams that haven't showed as much as these guys. It's early. A lot to show yet, but it's a promising list. In comparison, look at Miami, and I'm no big Miami fan but would anyone trade the Bills drafts for these guys? 2018: Minkah Fitzpatrick, Mike Gesicki, Jerome Baker, Durham Smythe, Kalen Ballade, Cornell Armstrong, Quentin Poling, Jason Sanders 2017: Charles Harris, Raekwon McMillan, Corder Tankersley, Isaac Asiata, Davon Godchaux, Vincent Taylor, Isaiah Ford Or look at Detroit or Tampa. Those were the first three I thought of and they would trade their guys for ours in a second, IMO. I bet plenty of other teams would too in terms of quality. Expand Yea lets look at the other bottom feeder teams so we can compare drafts with. How bout comparing to the Ravens or Saints or Chiefs then u will see our drafts are just solid in comparison.
dave mcbride Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 3:15 PM, CoudyBills said: On one hand I agree completely. On the other I'm scared that the roster sucks so bad that average talent sticks out. I'm certainly no scouting wizard so that is just my been a Bills fan too long fear. Expand That’s fair. I just worry that a lot of folks here are highly susceptible to Terrence Pennington-itis when it comes to lauding rookies simply because they actually made it onto the field for sustained periods of time. Teller played on a truly abysmal offense, after all. 1
HappyDays Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 8:13 PM, BillsFan1988 said: Now we can all take it to the grave that Mcd was the one that passed on Mahomes and a ton of other top talent players that got drafted that yr. Expand We weren't taking a QB early that year, precisely because we were working off of Carolina's scouting. Beane wasn't here yet and they hadn't scouted QBs. You can piss and moan about it for the next 10 years if you want but there was never any chance of us picking Mahomes. They just need to be right about Allen. If they aren't, they probably won't last long here. And yeah the 2017 draft wasn't perfect. No one expects that. White, Dawkins, and Milano look like a solid young core. If we hit 1 elite player, 1 great player, and 1 solid starter in every draft we'll be good for a long time. 1
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 5:19 PM, Thurman#1 said: Yup. All males. Mostly Americans. Athletically talented. But no, there are plenty of teams that aren't particularly happy with their last two drafts. Plenty of teams that haven't showed as much as these guys. It's early. A lot to show yet, but it's a promising list. In comparison, look at Miami, and I'm no big Miami fan but would anyone trade the Bills drafts for these guys? 2018: Minkah Fitzpatrick, Mike Gesicki, Jerome Baker, Durham Smythe, Kalen Ballade, Cornell Armstrong, Quentin Poling, Jason Sanders 2017: Charles Harris, Raekwon McMillan, Corder Tankersley, Isaac Asiata, Davon Godchaux, Vincent Taylor, Isaiah Ford Or look at Detroit or Tampa. Those were the first three I thought of and they would trade their guys for ours in a second, IMO. I bet plenty of other teams would too in terms of quality. Expand . We can do this all day. I’ll list the Colts Steelers and Chiefs then you can counter with idk Green Bay or something. My point is the op is looking at Bills players with rose colored glasses. Zay Jones shouldn’t be on that list he has negative value imo. Harrison Phillips hasn’t shown anything yet he may next year. I didn’t focus on Wyatt teller but the o line was terrible in both run and pass blocking.
Meazy26 Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 8:06 PM, Nextmanup said: Remember, the picks and cap space don't automatically make this team better. It's a tricky minefield these guys are going to have to navigate, and luring top FA talent to Buffalo is not easy, if not straight up borderline impossible. How well they do in this off-season will decide if they stay or go. McBeane that is. Expand Unless Beane is an idiot, there is no excuse why this team shouldn’t be better. I’m not saying we’ll be able to lure all of the big fish (generally there isn’t a plethora of impact FA’s to begin with), but with the resources we have, we should no doubt be better. How much better? Remains to be seen...
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 3:24 PM, wppete said: Totally agree. I have a feeling G, Ike Boetger (spelling?) might turn out to be a serviceable starter also and he was UDFA. Expand Controversial opinion..... I think he has more potential than Teller. On 1/19/2019 at 9:52 PM, Chemical said: . We can do this all day. I’ll list the Colts Steelers and Chiefs then you can counter with idk Green Bay or something. My point is the op is looking at Bills players with rose colored glasses. Zay Jones shouldn’t be on that list he has negative value imo. Harrison Phillips hasn’t shown anything yet he may next year. I didn’t focus on Wyatt teller but the o line was terrible in both run and pass blocking. Expand Harsh on Harrison who was actually our best interior run defender this year - I think he outplayed the big $$ FA from Carolina - though he has to prove he can do it as an every down starter and not just a rotational player. I agree with you Zay and Teller don't belong on that list at this point. 1
dave mcbride Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 4:16 PM, HappyDays said: I will go to my grave believing that McDermott used Carolina's draft board that year. Look at this list of players Carolina met with pre-draft: https://panthergf.wordpress.com/2017/02/28/2017-draft-prospect-visit-workout-meeting-list/ Tre'Davious White Zay Jones Dion Dawkins Tanner Vallejo That's our first 3 picks and 1 of our late round picks that met with Carolina. We also traded ahead of Carolina to get Zay Jones, and his college WR coach at ECU was our WR coach that year. Here's who the Bills had as pre-draft visitors: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/04/2017_nfl_draft_buffalo_bills_private_workout_and_pre-draft_visitor_list.html The only match is Nate Peterman. No way this is just a coincidence. Whaley had nothing to do with that draft. Well maybe he put in a good word for Peterman, it wouldn't surprise me. Expand This won't be an argument ender to what is a really stupid argument, but it should be!
GunnerBill Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 4:16 PM, HappyDays said: I will go to my grave believing that McDermott used Carolina's draft board that year. Look at this list of players Carolina met with pre-draft: https://panthergf.wordpress.com/2017/02/28/2017-draft-prospect-visit-workout-meeting-list/ Tre'Davious White Zay Jones Dion Dawkins Tanner Vallejo That's our first 3 picks and 1 of our late round picks that met with Carolina. We also traded ahead of Carolina to get Zay Jones, and his college WR coach at ECU was our WR coach that year. Here's who the Bills had as pre-draft visitors: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/04/2017_nfl_draft_buffalo_bills_private_workout_and_pre-draft_visitor_list.html The only match is Nate Peterman. No way this is just a coincidence. Whaley had nothing to do with that draft. Well maybe he put in a good word for Peterman, it wouldn't surprise me. Expand Other than the Peterman point (he doesn't fit a Doug Whaley QB prototype at all - if anyone put in a good word I suspect it was Rick Dennison) I entirely agree. McDermott ran that draft and I believe by draft night he and Brandon Beane both already knew Beane was the next GM of the Bills.
GimmeSomeProcess Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 9:52 PM, Chemical said: . We can do this all day. I’ll list the Colts Steelers and Chiefs then you can counter with idk Green Bay or something. My point is the op is looking at Bills players with rose colored glasses. Zay Jones shouldn’t be on that list he has negative value imo. Harrison Phillips hasn’t shown anything yet he may next year. I didn’t focus on Wyatt teller but the o line was terrible in both run and pass blocking. Expand Wrong, Zay should absolutely be on the list. He’s developing nicely as a number 2 reciever.
GunnerBill Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 1:57 PM, GimmeSomeProcess said: Wrong, Zay should absolutely be on the list. He’s developing nicely as a number 2 reciever. Expand Developing "nicely"? He caught basically 55% of his targets in 2018. As a comparator Robert Woods in his 2nd year here in Buffalo caught 63%. He was better in 2018 than 2017 but he simply has to catch more of the balls thrown his way - at the moment I'd say he is developing slowly rather than nicely and he has been passed by Robert Foster.
JaCrispy Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 9:52 PM, Chemical said: . We can do this all day. I’ll list the Colts Steelers and Chiefs then you can counter with idk Green Bay or something. My point is the op is looking at Bills players with rose colored glasses. Zay Jones shouldn’t be on that list he has negative value imo. Harrison Phillips hasn’t shown anything yet he may next year. I didn’t focus on Wyatt teller but the o line was terrible in both run and pass blocking. Expand I agree with this post 100%...just like we don’t recognize other team’s drafts, other fans would look at our last two drafts and feel the same imo.
GunnerBill Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 2:09 PM, JaCrispy said: I agree with this post 100%...just like we don’t recognize other team’s drafts, other fans would look at our last two drafts and feel the same imo. Expand Yep. I have friends who are Jaguars fans, Ravens fans, Bears fans, Rams fans.... basically any of my friends who are not fans of an AFCE team and the only players from our last two drafts that move the dial for a regular fan are Tre White, Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds and Robert Foster (not a draft pick but he has definitely caught some eyes). The slightly more clued up fans (ie of my Jags supporting mates) would also be able to tell you that Matt Milano is one of the better players on the Bills defense and that their rookie UDFA corner out of Alabama made some plays down the stretch. That is still a decent baseline, and I do feel like there has been some strategy to the moves this regime has made. But let's not rush to crown them. Let's see where we are with these players by he end of next year. Tre White is already bordering on elite but has Allen taken a big step towards franchise QB status? Has Edmunds overcome his rookie inconsistency and stated to look dominant? Have the likes of Harrison, Teller, Johnson and Wallace taken a step in the way Milano did year 1 to 2? If the answer to all those questions are "yes" then the Bills will be in a really, really good spot.
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