2003Contenders Posted January 17, 2019 Posted January 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, ctk232 said: Came here to read about Foster and Edmunds, wound up reading a Jackson v. Allen debate...but there ya go^ Jackson's entire game is predicated on the RPO and being a successful runner. Chargers were able to minimize this impact and forced him to be more one-dimensional in their second meeting. Credit where credit is due, the offensive scheme and approach by the Ravens with Jackson maximized his strengths and built upon his RPO scheme familiarity. Whether he can develop beyond that scheme, the offensive personnel is retained, and whether or not he succeeds in the NFL as a QB is entirely dependent on his performance next year. Unless they are able to evolve the scheme, it's likely that defenses will be able to effectively counter the Raven's RPO once enough tape is there. Many will attempt to replicate the Chargers' playoff model at first. While I don't say this in attempt to discredit Jackson (as he was the only rookie QB to make the playoffs), I question how much of it was Jackson vs. the rest of the team, and not having any real tape to study the scheme and player until the Chargers playoff meeting. That being said, I do think the Ravens had a better chance of winning that game with Flacco - even though I'm not a Flacco guy, still felt he gave them the best chance to win there. As I posted in one of the other Allen vs other rookie QB threads, the comparison between Allen and Jackson is not really even close. Aside from some designed running plays, the Ravens did their best to hide Lamar Jackson, since naming him the starter. Meanwhile, in Buffalo during that same stretch, Josh Allen WAS the team's offense. In comparing apples-to-apples, let's look at weeks 12-17 (Jackson got his first start in week 11, and Allen returned from injury in Week 12). Aside from the Allen's first game back (against Jacksonville), where he attempted only 19 passes for 160 yards, Allen attempted at least 26 passes in every game and passed for at least 200 yards in each of them. He tossed 8 TD passes in those 6 games combined. Meanwhile, Jackson did not attempt as many as 26 passes in a single game. He has passed for 200 yards only once -- and that was a mere 204 yards. Over that 6-game span, Josh passed for 1242 yards and 8 TD passes, whereas Jackson threw for just 964 yards and 5 TD passes. Rushing, which is Jackson's greatest advertised asset, you ask? Well, Allen out-gained Jackson 476-441 and scored 5 rushing TDs to Jackson's 4 during that period. The amazing thing is that Allen's rushing numbers came on just 54 attempts, compared to Jackson's 92. Yes, that is correct. Josh Allen was a more prolific runner than Jackson was, even though he had 38 fewer rush attempts than Jackson had in weeks 12-17. Also, looking at W's and L's, as good as the Bills' D was, it was not in the same stratosphere as Baltimore's. If Allen had Baltimore's defense backing him up, he likely picks up a couple more W's (the loss to Miami and Jets both come to mind). Not taking anything away from Jackson because he played largely mistake-free (until the Chargers dismantled him to be a QB in the playoffs) -- and his team made it to the playoffs. He tossed just 2 INTs during that time frame, compared to Josh's 7. Still, all things being equal and factoring in what was asked of each of these QBs, it is asinine to rank Lamar Jackson ahead of Josh Allen in any format whatsoever. 5
JoeF Posted January 17, 2019 Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) The ESPN roster is fine. I like the futures of Allen and Edmunds more than just about anyone else drafted this year at their position. Both are young and ascending in my opinion. On another note, I really like how the staff is developing 4-7th Round and UDFA talent. Part of it is out of necessity but the list is growing. Even if its future depth, its still helping the bottom of the roster and managing the cap... O Foster Boettger Teller All need to take a step up in 2019 but all impressed D Milano Wallace Taron Johnson (Who was really good before the season ender) If the Bills can get this number up to 12-15 (Round 4-7 talent and UDFA); add in the first three round draft choices; veteran street and Unrestricted free agents -- this is how you build a roster. The Bills are finding 3 or 4 a year -- so should be in range of that number by next year. Edited January 17, 2019 by JoeF
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 17, 2019 Posted January 17, 2019 6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Jackson started 7 games while Allen started 11. imo, they are both at very similar levels at this point. i would bet on Allen having the better career because of his arm strength but it will be interesting. It’s seem like the Ravens are building their offense around Jackson. 2015 Bills offense- 17 hours ago, BfloBillsFan said: I don't see how Darnold can get the nod ahead of Allen. Completely fine with it. I want these guys chippy and feeling disrespected this off season instead of reveling in their now meaningless accolades
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 17, 2019 Posted January 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said: heck he went 5-6 with this team.... can you imagine what he would have done with that run game, guys like brown and crabtree outside, and the #1 scoring D behind him? Brown was having a nice year and the turn to Jackson basically rendered his game obsolete. We had the number 2 defense. Allen “led” a comeback against the Titans because of the defense. It goes both ways. again, I’d bet on Allen being the better qb long term. But Allen is closer to Jackson as a passer than Baker. 8 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: don't credit yourself man. I'm far from sensitive. I was just pointing out the obvious. And you’re a giant homer. And that’s awesome. Seriously. But I do know when I was in the place, I wasn’t objective. It’s also funny that some fans act like there is some bias towards the Bills in an article that mentions Foster, who most nfl fans know nothing about.
Stank_Nasty Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: We had the number 2 defense. Allen “led” a comeback against the Titans because of the defense. It goes both ways. again, I’d bet on Allen being the better qb long term. But Allen is closer to Jackson as a passer than Baker. And you’re a giant homer. And that’s awesome. Seriously. But I do know when I was in the place, I wasn’t objective. It’s also funny that some fans act like there is some bias towards the Bills in an article that mentions Foster, who most nfl fans know nothing about. didn't somebody already call you out for cherry picking stats earlier? we had the #2 yardage defense. that is correct..... did you actually keep a straight face when you said "we had the number 2 defense"??….. without cracking a smile tell me you think our defense was 2nd best overall in the league. i'll give'm top ten. I like the D for the most part. but the ravens were 1st in yards and 2nd in scoring. you wanna toss the bills into that hat? seriously.... stop it with that nonsense. and you realize that going from a none objective homer to the exact polar opposite is just as irrational right?.... I mean you are basically "that guy" lately. maybe someday you'll find a sensible middle ground. Edited January 18, 2019 by Stank_Nasty
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 ...congratulations to these youngsters on their accomplishments....think they will continue and only get better despite doubting posting pundits wanting/hoping me to believe otherwise....
JohnC Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 The Colts had the most impacting draft class in the league with G Nelson, OT Smith and LB Leonard. It wasn't a sexy draft but it was a focused draft that made their qb more effective and safer.
Stank_Nasty Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, JohnC said: The Colts had the most impacting draft class in the league with G Nelson, OT Smith and LB Leonard. It wasn't a sexy draft but it was a focused draft that made their qb more effective and safer. I would argue one of the best of all time for immediate returns. First rookie tandem to get first team all pro since Butkus and sayers. That’s just unheard of.
MJS Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) Until they win games and have a playoff run nobody on this team will get respect. And they don't really deserve much respect anyways. Not until they put the pieces together. 3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I would argue one of the best of all time for immediate returns. First rookie tandem to get first team all pro since Butkus and sayers. That’s just unheard of. Yeah, and everyone is pointing to them and saying we need to do the same thing. That would be great, but it is easier said than done. Things like that don't usually happen so quickly. Edited January 18, 2019 by MJS 2
JohnC Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I would argue one of the best of all time for immediate returns. First rookie tandem to get first team all pro since Butkus and sayers. That’s just unheard of. I would say New Orleans's draft in 2017 was even better and more impacting. https://clutchpoints.com/how-the-2017-nfl-draft-completely-turned-the-new-orleans-saints-around/
Stank_Nasty Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: I would say New Orleans's draft in 2017 was even better and more impacting. https://clutchpoints.com/how-the-2017-nfl-draft-completely-turned-the-new-orleans-saints-around/ Top to bottom, overall. Ya it could definitely be argued. But as far as 2 rookies coming in and absolutely dominating at an all pro level.... at 33 I may not see it again in my lifetime. As for the topic. I like our rookies as well.... I think there’s a strong possibility we are looking back at this year’s rookie class as the ones that flipped the script for us in 5-10 years.
JohnC Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said: Top to bottom, overall. Ya it could definitely be argued. But as far as 2 rookies coming in and absolutely dominating at an all pro level.... at 33 I may not see it again in my lifetime. As for the topic. I like our rookies as well.... I think there’s a strong possibility we are looking back at this year’s rookie class as the ones that flipped the script for us in 5-10 years. The most effective way of upgrading your roster is stringing together three good quality drafts. That is in my opinion better than having one great draft followed by average drafts. In the McDermott era we have had two good drafts. And hopefully having another good draft will set the stage for this team to become a more serious team in the league. 2
Gunsgoodtime Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Just had to bump...so excited, I met Tremaine Edmund's today and got a Jersey signed! Him and his father are such nice people. I may share a photo later but not sure if he would appreciate that are not. Btw I'm only 5'6" so you can imagine how it looks lol Edited February 23, 2019 by Gunsgoodtime 4 1
GreggTX Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) I agree that Wallace should at least have gotten honorable mention and Foster deserved the same. I don't honestly know who will have the better career, but you have to be a complete homer to think that Jackson wasn't the 2nd best rookie QB after Mayfield in 2018. I don't even think you have to say much of anything to justify that claim either. It's obvious. I'm still not sold on Edmunds, but I'm pulling for him to have a great season in 2019. Edited February 23, 2019 by GreggTX 1
Doc Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, GreggTX said: I agree that Wallace should at least have gotten honorable mention and Foster deserved the same. I don't honestly know who will have the better career, but you have to be a complete homer to think that Jackson wasn't the 2nd best rookie QB after Mayfield in 2018. I don't even think you have to say much of anything to justify that claim either. It's obvious. I'm still not sold on Edmunds, but I'm pulling for him to have a great season in 2019. Jackson wasn't the 2nd best rookie behind Mayfield, much less obviously. They both had about the same number of yards/game but Jackson had a far far better offense around him. 1
BuffAlone Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, GreggTX said: I agree that Wallace should at least have gotten honorable mention and Foster deserved the same. I don't honestly know who will have the better career, but you have to be a complete homer to think that Jackson wasn't the 2nd best rookie QB after Mayfield in 2018. I don't even think you have to say much of anything to justify that claim either. It's obvious. I'm still not sold on Edmunds, but I'm pulling for him to have a great season in 2019. Well Jackson made the playoffs....unfortunately for him ?
Kmart128 Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 Darnold should not be ahead of Allen. Josh was much better
Elite Poster Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 I'm happy with Tremaine, but man Vander Esch was a dog in college and he quite literally has not missed a step in the NFL. 1
John from Riverside Posted February 24, 2019 Posted February 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Elite Poster said: I'm happy with Tremaine, but man Vander Esch was a dog in college and he quite literally has not missed a step in the NFL. We wont get all the good players.....as long as we keep hitting on drafted players though we will be fine...... Edmunds has not even come close to reaching his potential
BringBackFlutie Posted February 24, 2019 Posted February 24, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 9:12 AM, teef said: i can tie a garden hose in my mouth. I want to know how I missed this. ****, I love you. 1
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