JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, he's been around a long time and has proved himself an excellent backup, maybe the best in the league. Not so funny. He said Foles had gotten the team to the Super Bowl and won it. I pointed out that he hadn't gotten them there by any means that year. And this year they didn't win it. So he didn't get them to and win a Super Bowl either year. Not so funny at all. He "nearly" got them to the NFCC game, right? Does that mean he got them there? Or does it mean he didn't get them there. Football's a team game. And it was a team effort that got them there, not just Foles. Same with Wentz, but as the replies here make clear, it's pretty obvious which of the two nearly everyone prefers. But again, Foles had an advantage both years coming in late in the year when teams didn't have video on how he looked and what his tendencies were. That's a big advantage, which he did a great job of using. He's shown himself a terrific backup. I like the guy and hope he proves himself a franchise guy. But I doubt he will. You are making some ticky tacky distinctions. I can concede that Foles did not get them to the playoffs for their Superbowl run. But that is the easy part. The hard part is making a run through the playoffs and winning the superbowl. Thats what matters. Thats what only a handful of guys in the league can do. And thats what he can do. As far as this year, he dragged them into the playoffs and then won a game (and came close against the Saints) that they had no business winning. You are not giving him nearly enough credit for what is a historic accomplishment. He is obviously the best back up in the league, but more than that he is, at the absolute least, an average to above average starter. Wentz hasn't done a thing in comparison.
Shamrock Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 20 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Lots of guys come into the league with all the talent in the world. The difference is what happens between the ears. Foles has proven he can do it. I'm not sure Wentz has. I think this is a way bigger risk than people are acknowledging. Plus, what are you really looking for when searching for a QB? You are looking for a guy that can you to and win a SB. Nick Foles has done that. From memory, would the comparison be the 1990 Giants, to which the 1991 season had an open QB competition between Hoss & Simms.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Shamrock said: From memory, would the comparison be the 1990 Giants, to which the 1991 season had an open QB competition between Hoss & Simms. That is a stellar comparison. But even then, the quarterback wasn't nearly as important as it is now. 1
CLTbills Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 19 hours ago, rodneykm said: I agree. In their situation, Foles makes a whole lot of sense. The sheer amount of picks you'd get for Wentz would be amazing. It wouldn't be a popular move though in Philly I'd imagine. I don't know how you go back to Wentz, honestly, from an on-field standpoint... but adding in the points you guys made about the cap situation (which i wasn't really aware of) it makes even more sense.
prissythecat Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 35 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: You are making some ticky tacky distinctions. I can concede that Foles did not get them to the playoffs for their Superbowl run. But that is the easy part. The hard part is making a run through the playoffs and winning the superbowl. Thats what matters. Thats what only a handful of guys in the league can do. And thats what he can do. As far as this year, he dragged them into the playoffs and then won a game (and came close against the Saints) that they had no business winning. You are not giving him nearly enough credit for what is a historic accomplishment. He is obviously the best back up in the league, but more than that he is, at the absolute least, an average to above average starter. Wentz hasn't done a thing in comparison. Playing very well to get a team home field advantage is the easy part? Wentz hasn't done a thing? Amazing....
CuddyDark Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 18 hours ago, matter2003 said: Foles is similar to Flacco...average for long stretches and then seems to get "hot" when the stakes are the highest. Foles is maddeningly inconsistent and looks downright bad too often. I see Wentz as more a Flacco type. He's big and strong and locks in on one or two receivers. He doesn't make quick reads but he does get the ball out. He's a good player but he's drastically overrated as a player.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, prissythecat said: Playing very well to get a team home field advantage is the easy part? Wentz hasn't done a thing? Amazing.... I stand by my opinion that getting a team to the playoffs is not nearly as hard as winning every game in the playoffs and super bowl. And, frankly, I don't think that is such an outrageous opinion that it deserves to be mocked.
prissythecat Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I stand by my opinion that getting a team to the playoffs is not nearly as hard as winning every game in the playoffs and super bowl. And, frankly, I don't think that is such an outrageous opinion that it deserves to be mocked. If we go by that line of thinking than there will be many one hit wonder QBs that should be considered HOF inductees
CuddyDark Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 10 hours ago, pop gun said: Wentz is the better QB no question. Better in terms of overall talent and draft positioning but not a better passer of the football. A better thrower with a bigger arm yes, but Foles has better ball placement and throws a catchable ball. Wentz is living on the idea of his talent. He's a good player like Flacco and maybe as good as Matt Ryan but he's probably the most overrated QB in the entire league.
prissythecat Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Better in terms of overall talent and draft positioning but not a better passer of the football. A better thrower with a bigger arm yes, but Foles has better ball placement and throws a catchable ball. Wentz is living on the idea of his talent. He's a good player like Flacco and maybe as good as Matt Ryan but he's probably the most overrated QB in the entire league. What exactly is a catchable ball? Also, how is Vontae Davis doing keeping his signing bonus?
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, prissythecat said: If we go by that line of thinking than there will be many one hit wonder QBs that should be considered HOF inductees Whoa, where did all this HOF talk come from. I'm just saying that a QB who wins the superbowl should be valued higher than a QB that had a good regular season.
prissythecat Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Whoa, where did all this HOF talk come from. I'm just saying that a QB who wins the superbowl should be valued higher than a QB that had a good regular season. I am pointing out the flaw in that line of thinking . A team that has Home field advantage throughout the playoffs has to win all of 3 games, 2 under home field advantage , to get a superbowl. Contrary to the cliches that the announcers like to say on air (e.g., players hit harder, rbs run faster, etc), the game is still the same. You are comparing 3 wins to an entire season's worth of work. The Eagles brass is not dumb. They chose Wentz over Foles for very good reasons. In fact , I would say that the odds are very good that Foles will be a flop with whatever team he signs with this coming season while Wentz gets back to his 2017 form.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, prissythecat said: I am pointing out the flaw in that line of thinking . A team that has Home field advantage throughout the playoffs has to win all of 3 games, 2 under home field advantage , to get a superbowl. Contrary to the cliches that the announcers like to say on air (e.g., players hit harder, rbs run faster, etc), the game is still the same. You are comparing 3 wins to an entire season's worth of work. The Eagles brass is not dumb. They chose Wentz over Foles for very good reasons. In fact , I would say that the odds are very good that Foles will be a flop with whatever team he signs with this coming season while Wentz gets back to his 2017 form. Yeah, but your point didn't make any sense... The competition is significantly more difficult. The game plan is more detailed. The preparation is extensive. You are getting your best play from the best players in the league. You are not playing games against terrible Cowboys, Giants, and Redskins teams. Take the Chiefs for example, or even the Bengals, classic regular season champions. How do they do in the playoffs?
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 21 hours ago, CuddyDark said: It's a bad move. Foles sees the field better. Has a quicker release and throws a catchable ball. Wentz has a better are and more talent but he's not a better player IMO. I hope not. I could see some Bills franchise ending crap end up like Brady wins SB #6 and retires and Belichick signs Foles who plays the same style as Brady, though not as good but goes on to win the division for 10 more years. Jeepers, Cuddy, you just put the idea in my head of the Pats getting Foles, and Brady not wanting to retire heading to Miami.
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 12 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: I have some connections to the Philly area so I watch quite a bit of the Eagles for some odd reason. He was not healthy in 2018 IMO. Didn't have the same velocity on his ball or mobility. I believe he'll be fully recovered next season, but time will tell. Fully recovered form the 2017 injury or the 2018 injury....?
GunnerBill Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 37 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Better in terms of overall talent and draft positioning but not a better passer of the football. A better thrower with a bigger arm yes, but Foles has better ball placement and throws a catchable ball. Wentz is living on the idea of his talent. He's a good player like Flacco and maybe as good as Matt Ryan but he's probably the most overrated QB in the entire league. What about when Foles is asked to play in a conventional drop back offense without the RPO? To then he looks confused, holds the ball too long and his accuracy gets spotty. I think he has played pretty average in the two playoff games this year, though he had a couple of really good games at the end of the regular season. To me if you commit to Foles you have to commit to the RPO not just being a part of your offense but being the basis of your offense. That was the way he had his very good season under Chip and that is how he has performed best for Pederson too. I think the RPO is here to stay but I don't think it on its own is a basis for a whole offensive scheme. To me Wentz gives you much more flexibility offensively in terms of what you run going forward. I just think he is a more talented Quarterback. Foles is a system guy.
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, he's been around a long time and has proved himself an excellent backup, maybe the best in the league. Not so funny. He said Foles had gotten the team to the Super Bowl and won it. I pointed out that he hadn't gotten them there by any means that year. And this year they didn't win it. So he didn't get them to and win a Super Bowl either year. Not so funny at all. He "nearly" got them to the NFCC game, right? Does that mean he got them there? Or does it mean he didn't get them there. Football's a team game. And it was a team effort that got them there, not just Foles. Same with Wentz, but as the replies here make clear, it's pretty obvious which of the two nearly everyone prefers. But again, Foles had an advantage both years coming in late in the year when teams didn't have video on how he looked and what his tendencies were. That's a big advantage, which he did a great job of using. He's shown himself a terrific backup. I like the guy and hope he proves himself a franchise guy. But I doubt he will. Come on! The Eagles were the next in a long list of teams that play in the SB and then don't make the playoffs until Foles stepped in. Yes, it's a team game and....Foles couldn't do it alone. But he did turn around a TEAM that was not going to the playoffs at that point. And what team does NOT have "film on Foles" by now?? That's ridiculous. The guys been around for years and had 11 games over the past 2 seasons with the Eagles.
dave mcbride Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 48 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Better in terms of overall talent and draft positioning but not a better passer of the football. A better thrower with a bigger arm yes, but Foles has better ball placement and throws a catchable ball. Wentz is living on the idea of his talent. He's a good player like Flacco and maybe as good as Matt Ryan but he's probably the most overrated QB in the entire league. ? - He was banged up this year and struggled (although his stats were good), but last year Wentz would have been MVP if not for the injury. It's way too early to be passing these judgments.
CuddyDark Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 51 minutes ago, prissythecat said: What exactly is a catchable ball? Also, how is Vontae Davis doing keeping his signing bonus? When they have a problem with the person and not what's said it shows insecurity on their behalf.
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