Just Joshin' Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said: Too much money for a part time space eater. Get him in there 60% of the snaps. What % of downs are runs?
LSHMEAB Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: What % of downs are runs? That's the thing. You have no idea. This isn't 1995 when you could assume a team would run on first and second down. There's just not enough value for a guy who eats space and doesn't make plays in today's NFL. Certainly not worth 10 million dollars a year IMO. This guy had ZERO FF, ZERO SACKS, ZERO QB HITS FOR GOD'S SAKE! Think about that. A defensive tackle who never even got a hit on the opposing QB. He posted 17 tackles which was a career low for the record. This was by far his least impressive season statistically which tells me his play is regressing. Meh. Edit. He did have ONE TFL, so there's that. Edited January 16, 2019 by LSHMEAB 2
fansince88 Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 Just got to go out there on that infamous limb and say Im not even slightly startled. 1
Plano Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 For the record, I've read zero of the comments in this thread, and I ran the word check on this on every page, buuuuuuuuut.. HOW DID YOU MISS THIS: instead of "Startling Star Statistic" ... Startling Star Startistic. I'll show myself out. 1
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/15/2019 at 11:23 AM, ******* said: Currently DT Star Lotulelei will take up a team-high 5.8% of the #Bills salary cap in 2019 after signing a five-year, $50 million deal with Buffalo last offseason. Despite this, he only played in 46.9% of defensive snaps last season & he played in all 16 games Hes an ok signing. Probably not the difference maker some fans though. Is he overpaid? Probably but that’s what happens with free agents. One of the reason why Beane is being cautious
Watkins90 Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 23 hours ago, CommonCents said: He is a dinosaur playing in the new NFL. Bring in Star? Audible to a pass, Oh Star is on the sideline? Let’s rack up some rushing yards. Paying a one dimensional guy that much never made sense. You seriously think teams just make audibles due to one person being on or off the field. Get real. 14 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: That's the thing. You have no idea. This isn't 1995 when you could assume a team would run on first and second down. There's just not enough value for a guy who eats space and doesn't make plays in today's NFL. Certainly not worth 10 million dollars a year IMO. This guy had ZERO FF, ZERO SACKS, ZERO QB HITS FOR GOD'S SAKE! Think about that. A defensive tackle who never even got a hit on the opposing QB. He posted 17 tackles which was a career low for the record. This was by far his least impressive season statistically which tells me his play is regressing. Meh. Edit. He did have ONE TFL, so there's that. I find it very funny that we have fans who say this, but have no clue what defense was called and what his assignments were on those calls. I also find it funny that people know we are going to have to overpay for talent in FA and are okay with that now. But, not with Star.
dlonce Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Stars not a bad player, he’s just Beanes knee jerk reaction to not stopping the run. Did it work? Not as much I’d like to see. Hes nothing more than a space eater. Therefore, in my opinion he’s not worth the contract. There are plenty of guys like him in the drafts. Lets find a guy who can play in at least 70% of the plays and someone who actually make plays, like stuffing a runner behind the Los, or batting down a pass or getting to the QB or picking up a fumble. This guys done none of this, or rarely does it. Rotation to the degree some teams do it isn’t proven to be viable. It’s a fad, unless you have superior depth. Edited January 16, 2019 by dlonce
dlonce Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) On 1/15/2019 at 1:47 PM, Logic said: shhhhhh. There's no room for facts here when we can use metrics like "the eyeball test" and random conjecture instead! Thats 10 million per to be mediocre,middle of the pack. Not good enough. Good teams crammed the running game down the Bills throat. This is a good topic, not startling. A bit hyperbolic. Im hoping Star gets more comfortable and they allow him to do more things. He may be eating up space because that’s what the coaches are directing him to do. Edited January 16, 2019 by dlonce
Cripple Creek Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/15/2019 at 11:23 AM, ******* said: Currently DT Star Lotulelei will take up a team-high 5.8% of the #Bills salary cap in 2019 after signing a five-year, $50 million deal with Buffalo last offseason. Despite this, he only played in 46.9% of defensive snaps last season & he played in all 16 games You find this startling? FYI he made more in 2018.
Logic Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, dlonce said: Thats 10 million per to be mediocre,middle of the pack. Not good enough. Good teams crammed the running game down the Bills throat. Star is "mediocre" and "middle of the pack"? According to who? Also, only maybe 2-3 teams the entire season "crammed the ball down the Bills throat" in the run game. As has already been covered in this thread, their run defense improved this season. They also finished with the #2 defense in the entire league this season. You don't get to blame Star for occasional bad run defense and ALSO not give him credit for contributing to the second best defense in the NFL. That's biased cherry picking at its finest.
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 I like the alliteration in the title. Kind of like "Fire Fighters feverishly fight flames in Frerdonia'. Details at 11.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 Way over paid for a DT that is only a run stuffer. The NFL is passing the football more then ever and I expect that number to go up even more next season. We are not making good signings and if we sign one more player or coach from Carolina I'm going to get a Bills hat in the Panthers color scheme. Im loosing faith in this coaching staff, I'm balanced 50/50 right now but another losing season will definitely push it to 30/70. At 20/80 I start demanding that the coach get fire and become disinterested in the Bills.
dlonce Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, Logic said: Star is "mediocre" and "middle of the pack"? According to who? Also, only maybe 2-3 teams the entire season "crammed the ball down the Bills throat" in the run game. As has already been covered in this thread, their run defense improved this season. They also finished with the #2 defense in the entire league this season. You don't get to blame Star for occasional bad run defense and ALSO not give him credit for contributing to the second best defense in the NFL. That's biased cherry picking at its finest. Where did I blame Star? The claim is their defensive run game improved, this is about Star, therefore he helped to improve against the run. Theres no proof of that. Hes a big guy that takes up space. If that’s what the coaches want then he did his job. We were number 2 because our pass defense was number 1. Being 16th is an improvement for sure but they were blown off the ball in a number of games. How the hell did we lose any games? I like Star, it’s not his fault he’s making 10 mil per. I just believe we can find or draft better. I didn’t cherry pick anything. Good teams blew us off the line,especially in crucial moments. Stars fault? Nope, but to say he’s worth it is just an opinion,both ways. Do we know what was expected of him? I haven’t heard it from the coaches, but you see DTs making plays, just not Star. 1
Logic Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, dlonce said: The claim is their defensive run game improved, this is about Star, therefore he helped to improve against the run. Theres no proof of that. We were number 2 because our pass defense was number 1. Being 16th is an improvement for sure but they were blown off the ball in a number of games. You just contradicted yourself in your own post. Edited January 16, 2019 by Logic
Shaw66 Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 16 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: That's the thing. You have no idea. This isn't 1995 when you could assume a team would run on first and second down. There's just not enough value for a guy who eats space and doesn't make plays in today's NFL. Certainly not worth 10 million dollars a year IMO. This guy had ZERO FF, ZERO SACKS, ZERO QB HITS FOR GOD'S SAKE! Think about that. A defensive tackle who never even got a hit on the opposing QB. He posted 17 tackles which was a career low for the record. This was by far his least impressive season statistically which tells me his play is regressing. Meh. Edit. He did have ONE TFL, so there's that. I have no idea whether the Bill's think the signing was good, but I'm virtually certain that their evaluation of him has very little to do with your stats. The process is completely team oriented. Star has a job to do, in the locker room, in practice and in games. You and I have practically no idea what that job is. He is evaluated every day on how well he is doing his job. Alexander knows what Star's job is. He says Star is doing his job. I'd say it's a good bet that Alexander's view is more accurate than yours.
Aussie Joe Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: I have no idea whether the Bill's think the signing was good, but I'm virtually certain that their evaluation of him has very little to do with your stats. The process is completely team oriented. Star has a job to do, in the locker room, in practice and in games. You and I have practically no idea what that job is. He is evaluated every day on how well he is doing his job. Alexander knows what Star's job is. He says Star is doing his job. I'd say it's a good bet that Alexander's view is more accurate than yours. I've reached the acceptance level about Star... I don't think he is great at all but he seems adequate.. He might be overpaid a couple of million a year but Its not my money... Looking at his contract ,he is here to stay at least until 2020 so suggest that we all get used to it... Not sure though I read too much into what Alexander says about him ... he is not going to be publicly critical of him... Edited January 16, 2019 by Aussie Joe
GunnerBill Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 4 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Hes an ok signing. Probably not the difference maker some fans though. Is he overpaid? Probably but that’s what happens with free agents. One of the reason why Beane is being cautious I think "ok" is right. It isn't just that his role is a bit outdated it is that he was only kind of just above average at his role. As for being overpaid it isn't probably - it is certainly. It was a bad contract from the off. Star will never live up to it.
Mojo44 Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/15/2019 at 11:45 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Is a teammate going to say their teammate isn’t worth the money? No, but they are also not going to go out of their way to say something positive if they don’t believe it. If Alexander didn’t believe what he said he would not have said it publicly. On the policy
Shaw66 Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: I've reached the acceptance level about Star... I don't think he is great at all but he seems adequate.. He might be overpaid a couple of million a year but Its not my money... Looking at his contract ,he is here to stay at least until 2020 so suggest that we all get used to it... Not sure though I read too much into what Alexander says about him ... he is not going to be publicly critical of him... No, Alexander is not going to be publicly critical of Star, but he seems to have gone out of his way to say good things about him. I commented before about the idea of "over paid by a couple million." There always are guys on your roster who are getting paid more than their value, and there are guys who are underpaid. There is not way to measure exactly how important a player is to the team, and there is no way to translate into dollars to know exactly how much to pay him. So you always have some overpaid and some underpaid. It would be nice if the entire roster were underpaid, but that isn't reality. As long as you don't have too many guys being overpaid by too much, it doesn't matter if a guy is overpaid. What matters is whether he's doing the job you want him to do. All indications are that Star is doing what the Bills want him to do, the Bills aren't in cap trouble because of his contract, so it doesn't make sense to get excited about it. I don't understand those stats about performance over replacement, but that kind of analysis is what's necessary if you want to know whether the Bills made a mistake or not. That is, how much would it have cost to get someone better, or how much could the Bills have saved by getting someone worse and how much worse would he have been. It's almost a certainty that the right player at exactly the right price was not available in free agency last year. 2
Shaw66 Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/15/2019 at 11:45 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Is a teammate going to say their teammate isn’t worth the money? No, a teammate isn't going to say that. But you need to understand that the players think differently about the money than we do. The players understand that how much a guy gets paid doesn't correspond exactly with how much he is worth. They know that some guys get lucky, hitting the market at the right time, finding a team with a particular need at a particular time. They don't mope around the practice field all day because they think someone is getting paid too much. They're happy for their teammates who hit the free agency jackpot, and they understand that there aren't many of those guys. The only players who really worry that some guy is getting more than they are are the players McBeane don't want on their team.
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