GoBills808 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 21 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: That was a poor allocation of resources by Beane. No doubt about it. He was brought in to improve our run defense and the run defense did not improve. Did the Star folks read the part that states he wasn't even in the game for over half the defensive snaps? They cannot swing and miss like that this time around. They went from 24th in the league in 2017 defensive YPA to 9th in 2018. 4 minutes ago, billspro said: Are you sure the run D didn’t improve?They had two bad games but were solid outside of that. No. That idea that the rush defense didn’t improve is incorrect. 3
Patrick Duffy Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 I think they also pick a DT at some point in the draft as well.
SoCal Deek Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 I’d love to see that same ratio applied to the long snapper, punter and kicker. Hint: Everything doesn’t always work out to simple averages.
Shaw66 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 I think all of us amateur GMs don't know what we're talking about. First, the Lorenzo Alexander statements are telling. He's a one seven or eight guys IN THE WORLD whose ability to do his job depends on what Star does, and if he says Star is doing his job, that's enought for me. Second, NFL salaries ARE not a measure of a guy's worth in every case. Look at the salary dispersion of ALL teams - there are 2 or 3 or 4 guys over $10 million a year, and about 45 at or about $2 million or less. Often the lucky guys, like Star, hit the market at just the right time and get a really nice contract. In terms of actual value to the team, he isn't worth three times as much as some guy making $1.5, but that's just the nature of NFL salaries. Put another way, there is no way to determine the relative value of each player on the team compared to each other player. Even if you could determine those values, there is no way that every player's compensation could be set at exactly the correct amount compared to every other player. You can't even get close. Every team has guys who are getting paid a few million more than they are "worth" and some guys who are getting paid a few million less than they are "worth." The players understand this. They treat their wealthy teammates as guys who hit Lotto, but most do not walk around complaining that those guys are being overpaid. Now, if you're overpaying 10 guys (or worse, is you have a lot of guys not even on the team you're still paying in dead cap space), it's a problem. But if all you have is a few, it just doesn't matter. Every team has a few. If Star is doing his job, no one in the organization is concerned about his paycheck, and the fans shouldn't be, either. 6 3 3
Aussie Joe Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 I am startled.. No one had ever mentioned Star was overpaid before.. 2
Shaw66 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 As for the "scarcity" of snaps, the defense is designed to play eight d-linemen. I think the most you can expect Star to play is maybe 60% of the snaps, so 50% is terribly troubling to me. He was at 53 and 65% his last two years at Carolina, and in the 45% range the two seasons before that. So he may be down a bit, but he's essentially being used the way he always was used. I can't get excited about any of this.
ComradeKayAdams Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: They went from 24th in the league in 2017 defensive YPA to 9th in 2018. No. That idea that the rush defense didn’t improve is incorrect. THANK YOU, sir, for your facts. That 9th would have likely been top 5 if not for the occasional brain farts from our two very young LB's, Milano and Edmunds. We basically paid a few extra million than the market rate for a premium nose tackle so that we could ensure a stout run defense. I am not losing sleep over this decision at all. Nothing is more frustrating in football to me than knowing the opposing team is going to run it and still not being able to stop them. See: Bills vs. Saints, 2017. 1
formerlyofCtown Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: This is why I didn’t like the signing and feel it’s outdated thinking (though I love Samoans). He is a one dimensional player that can be schemed off. I’d rather have a couple of DTs, run stuffer and pass rusher, than one Star. He certainly helped with the run defense but he rarely made impact plays. he is good at his role. However, his role just isn’t important anymore. He probably won’t get on the field if we played the Chiefs. This isnt a surprise given McD does line rotation.
Virgil Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 When I opened the link, I couldn’t believe what happened next! 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: This isnt a surprise given McD does line rotation. I just want some more impact plays for that much money. I feel like a space eater can be found for cheaper. 3
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said: Lorax thinks Star is worth every bit of his contract since his (Star) play helps others make plays. https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/01/bills-lorenzo-alexander-says-star-lotulelei-earned-every-bit-of-big-contract.html "But Buffalo linebacker Lorenzo Alexander, who called Lotulelei “disruptive,” said that the former Panthers tackle was well worth it and is going to be a staple on the team for years to come. “Obviously he (doesn’t play) a sexy position, but he allows other people around him to make plays,” Alexander said. “I’ve definitely been able to have a pretty good year this year. A lot of it is contributed to what he’s been able to do as far as keeping guys off me, allowing me to run free. “In the pass rush, people can’t step up. On first or second down I know a couple of guys that have gotten sacks throughout the year just because Star has gotten that great push. He’s earned every bit of what he’s got with that five-year deal.” " Leslie Frazier's take on Star: “He demands a double team which allows our linebackers to run free and make some of the tackles that people might think the nose tackle should be making,” Frazier said. “That has been a plus for us, helping our linebackers to improve. But also to help our run defense. He’s done a good job of commanding attention from their interior, their center and their guards. It’s hard to block him one-one-one and that’s what we needed and he’s given us that.” Oh come on ... the "experts" at TBD know far better than the players and coaches... 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Oh come on ... the "experts" at TBD know far better than the players and coaches... Players loved Dick Jauron. Micah Hyde compared Peterman to Brett Favre. It’s what players do. Edited January 15, 2019 by C.Biscuit97 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 40 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: They went from 24th in the league in 2017 defensive YPA to 9th in 2018. No. That idea that the rush defense didn’t improve is incorrect. see above Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Players loved Dick Jauron. lol touche' coaches and players ..... there is a difference.
Happy Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, ShadyBillsFan said: Oh come on ... the "experts" at TBD know far better than the players and coaches... Yeah, Stars play is largely invisible, so I can see the angst people have toward him. I saw this article and wanted to put it out there to shed some light on his role.
Just Joshin' Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 When I read the title I thought it was about the OP users name.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said: Yeah, Stars play is largely invisible, so I can see the angst people have toward him. I saw this article and wanted to put it out there to shed some light on his role. It's really hard to tell what a player does on every down. Many say Tremaine Edmunds is bad too. Yet he's got some good skills and at 19 has done a great job at directing the defense. Sacks and Tackles matter in the stat book. but there is more than those two things that define a player. point in fact Lorax said “Obviously he (doesn’t play) a sexy position, but he allows other people around him to make plays,”
GoBills808 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I just want some more impact plays for that much money. I feel like a space eater can be found for cheaper. You need to pay for talent. If you look at comparable guys playing similar roles, he's not that far off imo from what his value is in this defense. He's not Geno Atkins or Fletcher Cox, maybe more a Gerald McCoy, and all those guys make more. Considering the Bills had to bring him in as a FA and probably got bid up on his price, I think he's paid just about right.
jimmy10 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/30/teammate-tells-aaron-maybin-to-earn-his-money/ “Give back some of that money you ain’t [expletive] earned!” Wood screamed at Maybin. STARTLING 23 minutes ago, Virgil said: When I opened the link, I couldn’t believe what happened next! The Bills used up 5.8% of their cap space using this one weird trick! 2 1
Logic Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 51 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think all of us amateur GMs don't know what we're talking about. First, the Lorenzo Alexander statements are telling. He's a one seven or eight guys IN THE WORLD whose ability to do his job depends on what Star does, and if he says Star is doing his job, that's enought for me. Second, NFL salaries ARE not a measure of a guy's worth in every case. Look at the salary dispersion of ALL teams - there are 2 or 3 or 4 guys over $10 million a year, and about 45 at or about $2 million or less. Often the lucky guys, like Star, hit the market at just the right time and get a really nice contract. In terms of actual value to the team, he isn't worth three times as much as some guy making $1.5, but that's just the nature of NFL salaries. Put another way, there is no way to determine the relative value of each player on the team compared to each other player. Even if you could determine those values, there is no way that every player's compensation could be set at exactly the correct amount compared to every other player. You can't even get close. Every team has guys who are getting paid a few million more than they are "worth" and some guys who are getting paid a few million less than they are "worth." The players understand this. They treat their wealthy teammates as guys who hit Lotto, but most do not walk around complaining that those guys are being overpaid. Now, if you're overpaying 10 guys (or worse, is you have a lot of guys not even on the team you're still paying in dead cap space), it's a problem. But if all you have is a few, it just doesn't matter. Every team has a few. If Star is doing his job, no one in the organization is concerned about his paycheck, and the fans shouldn't be, either. Shaw said it all. You want to know one of the crucial pieces that helped the Bills defense jump to #1 in the league this year? Star Lotulelei. A space-eating DT that commands double teams is absolutely VITAL to the success of McDermott's scheme. If you want to argue that they overpaid for him, fine, but I disagree with that, too. You allocate X amount of money to each position group. Typically, the 3-technique would be the guy making big money amongst the DTs. However, since Kyle is retiring and the Bills don't currently HAVE a 3-technique worth a big payday, they decided to give a bigger chunk of money to Star. I'd expect them to draft a youngster at 3-technique now, and by the time he's ready for a big contract extension, Star's deal will be nearing its end, and Harrison Phillips may step into that full time double-team-commanding 1T role. Aside from that, if you look at how much the salary cap goes up each year and factor in that you often have to overpay a bit in free agency to get good players -- ESPECIALLY in Buffalo -- you realize that Star's contract isn't that far out of whack. It's also better than the contract we were paying Dareus, and Star gives us VASTLY more production. Bottom line: Many fans will likely always take issue with Star's contract because he plays a non-glamorous position. The truth, though, is that said non-glamorous position is critical to the defense's success. If the endorsement of a grizzled veteran like Lorenzo Alexander doesn't change these fans' minds, though, nothing likely will. 28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I just want some more impact plays for that much money. I feel like a space eater can be found for cheaper. There were a ton of impact plays, that's the thing. They were being made by the linebackers and safeties that were freed up to run to the ball by Star's commanding of double teams. Impact plays, galore. 1
ColoradoBills Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 What is startling to me is Star is the highest paid Buffalo Bill and tied for the 140th highest paid player in the league. At the end of Star's contract that number will be closer to 230th highest in the league. Knowing that the Bills paid a premium for him in FA by 10-15%. These facts are the least thing to concern ourselves about. 1
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