Allen is NOT inaccurate unless Baker, Lamar, Darnold, Rosen, 2017 Watson & 2016 Wentz are, too

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m surrounded by ravens fans. So far your statement in unofficial polling has proven to be incorrect. 

 

Ray Lewis telling his team it’s ‘his last ride’ was the single biggest reason, followed by Anquan Boldin being un-coverable.  

 

Flacco played better in the post season as he usually does. And ‘14 was a career regular season for him too.

 

Flacco didn't just "play better". He was absolutely brilliant in that run. He was the single biggest reason they won the Superbowl once in the playoffs. 

[Zerovoltz]

......Let's assume that Allen did in fact play with a bad O-line and bad WR last season (wich I am good with...that seems like a reasonable assumption)  WHY would Allen decide on purpose to do the LEAST optimal thing he can do under those circumstances?  A bad line would mean poor protection to allow time for downfield plays to develope and those would supposedly develop less often and more slowly with bad WR.  The optimal thing to do under these circumstance would be designed plays/audibles, RPO action etc that would happen quickly and a read made more quickly to a shorter, faster develping route to mitigate the bad Oline and bad WR.  

 

Either the coaches called bad plays for Allen to try and throw deeper...OR they called good plays and Allen made bad choices.  One of those had to have happened.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

The optimal thing to do under these circumstance would be designed plays/audibles, RPO action etc that would happen quickly and a read made more quickly to a shorter, faster develping route to mitigate the bad Oline and bad WR.  

 

Either the coaches called bad plays for Allen to try and throw deeper...OR they called good plays and Allen made bad choices.  One of those had to have happened.

 

The truth is he isn't as comfortable with those things. There were some occasions early in the season where Daboll designed quick hitters as drive starters - the sort you see almost all OCs run for young QBs. Allen struggled with them. They are not his bread and butter. He finds the harder downfield throws easier than the short, quick game. Daboll adjusted as the season went on and gave him more downfield shots on early downs and early in drives or let him run more on early downs. 

 

Allen is such an unusual combination of strengths and weaknesses in a 1st and 2nd year NFL QB. That is why what happens next will be such an intriguing case study. Because in many ways he is trying to buck conventional wisdom.  

[wiley16350]

1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

......Let's assume that Allen did in fact play with a bad O-line and bad WR last season (wich I am good with...that seems like a reasonable assumption)  WHY would Allen decide on purpose to do the LEAST optimal thing he can do under those circumstances?  A bad line would mean poor protection to allow time for downfield plays to develope and those would supposedly develop less often and more slowly with bad WR.  The optimal thing to do under these circumstance would be designed plays/audibles, RPO action etc that would happen quickly and a read made more quickly to a shorter, faster develping route to mitigate the bad Oline and bad WR.  

 

Either the coaches called bad plays for Allen to try and throw deeper...OR they called good plays and Allen made bad choices.  One of those had to have happened.

Both of those things happened.  Why would you say 1 of them had to have happened.  There were plays where Allen could have checked down.  There were plays Allen missed on deep throws.  There were plays that didn't have good options and Allen threw it away.  There were times Allen had to force the ball downfield because he was in 3rd and unmanageable and checkdowns wouldn't have been a realistic option.  Nobody thinks Allen never made a bad throw or a bad decision, they just believe that Allen was more negatively affected by the team around him than other QB's are, to which I believe he was.

[thebandit27]

4 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

......Let's assume that Allen did in fact play with a bad O-line and bad WR last season (wich I am good with...that seems like a reasonable assumption)  WHY would Allen decide on purpose to do the LEAST optimal thing he can do under those circumstances?  A bad line would mean poor protection to allow time for downfield plays to develope and those would supposedly develop less often and more slowly with bad WR.  The optimal thing to do under these circumstance would be designed plays/audibles, RPO action etc that would happen quickly and a read made more quickly to a shorter, faster develping route to mitigate the bad Oline and bad WR.  

 

Either the coaches called bad plays for Allen to try and throw deeper...OR they called good plays and Allen made bad choices.  One of those had to have happened.

 

Those are faulty assumptions.  Allen clearly believed that his best option would be to scramble, buy himself time, and try to make plays down the field.

 

And he was right, by the way.

[wiley16350]

Some more interesting stats that I got from Allen's first 8 games.  I have him responsible for 37.8% of the plays that didn't have a gain of at least a yard.  The team is 55% responsible and the other 7.2% is situational such as kneel downs and hail mary's.  I don't have comparisons to other QB's so it's hard to say where that ranks but it might be of interest to some.  12.8% of those negative plays were because of accuracy issues with Josh Allen.  25% were decision making issues.  When you break it down to just Allen's negative plays, then 34% were because of accuracy and 66% were because of decision making.  As someone else said, it doesn't take that many improved passes to get a completion % to 60.  For Allen in the first 8 games he only needed 14 more completions to get 60%.  He was responsible for 53 negative plays and the team for 77.  Is it really that hard to believe that he could get that extra 14 completions with better decision making and a better team around him?

[JESSEFEFFER]

His low completion % is a distortion resulting from:

 

1)  Being near the top in % dropped passes

2)  Being near the top in % spikes and throwaways

3)  Leading the league in depth of target

4)  Being near the top in throws under pressure

5)  Being a rookie

6)  Lacking enough accuracy on some of his throws  (Not hitting his spot or improper timing, route running or reads?  We rarely know for sure.)

 

Because of the predraft assessments, for some #6 is the only one that matters. The low comp% confirms what they think they already knew.   It's the only one they want to consider and therefore no need to look any further.  If #1 & 2 (objectively quantifiable if evenly applied) and #3 and  4 (less so) are considered his completion% would look more like other rookies which is TBF's major conclusion and the basis of this thread title.  It makes sense to me.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

His low completion % is a distortion resulting from:

 

1)  Being near the top in % dropped passes

2)  Being near the top in % spikes and throwaways

3)  Leading the league in depth of target

4)  Being near the top in throws under pressure

5)  Being a rookie

6)  Lacking enough accuracy on some of his throws  (Not hitting his spot or improper timing, route running or reads?  We rarely know for sure.)

 

Because of the predraft assessments, for some #6 is the only one that matters. The low comp% confirms what they think they already knew.   It's the only one they want to consider and therefore no need to look any further.  If #1 & 2 (objectively quantifiable if evenly applied) and #3 and  4 (less so) are considered his completion% would look more like other rookies which is TBF's major conclusion and the basis of this thread title.  It makes sense to me.

Sadly there are some purported fans of the teams who want to see Allen fail so they can say their initial impression of him was correct.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Flacco didn't just "play better". He was absolutely brilliant in that run. He was the single biggest reason they won the Superbowl once in the playoffs. 

 

And I’m suggesting that he had a great run if you look at the box score, but the o line, running game and outstanding WR play all factored in.

 

and Ray Lewis’s defense was elite. They held the pats to 13 POINTS! 

 

Rice and Pierce were incredible. Boldin was RAC marchine and made contested catches like no one else. Flacco was still riding a lousey completion percentage. But he didn't toss any picks and Torrey, Anquan and even the last guy you’d expect, jacoby Jones played out of their minds. 

 

Defense was lights out incredible with picks and points in the playoffs.  +6 in TOs...  

 

Put Flacco on that same team and he’s winning it again. 

 

Hell Fitpatrick gets a ring on that squad. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

And I’m suggesting that he had a great run if you look at the box score, but the o line, running game and outstanding WR play all factored in.

 

Rice and Pierce were incredible. Boldin was RAC marchine and made contested catches like no one else. Flacco was still riding a lousey completion percentage. But he didn't toss any picks and Torrey, Anquan and even the last guy you’d expect, jacoby Jones played out of their minds. 

 

Defense was lights out incredible with picks and points in the playoffs.  +6 in TOs...  

 

Put Flacco on that same team and he’s winning it again. 

 

Hell Fitpatrick gets a ring on that squad. 

 

I am sorry I don't agree. The driving force in that playoff run was Joe Flacco. He made amazing plays in the clutch time and again. He wasn't just a complimentary piece. He was the piece. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry I don't agree. The driving force in that playoff run was Joe Flacco. He made amazing plays in the clutch time and again. He wasn't just a complimentary piece. He was the piece. 

 

Fair enough. It is certainly a fact that QBs often get far too much blame but also far too much credit in today’s NFL.

 

If you asked the most analytical of ravens fans, they might say the key was Jim Caldwell. 

 

Flacco was certainly a beneficiary of a team firing on literally ALL cylinders and some incredible bounces, That power outage almost did them in notwithstanding. 

 

Living in MD surrounded by ravens...

 

btw- note a tie back to the OP.

 

Flacco in his Brilliance was around 50% completion in the first two post season games. No one accused him of accuracy issues. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Stank_Nasty]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry I don't agree. The driving force in that playoff run was Joe Flacco. He made amazing plays in the clutch time and again. He wasn't just a complimentary piece. He was the piece. 

or Rahim morris taking a time machine back to his pop warner days as he totally whiffed on that awful prayer of a pass that flacco launched into the mile high air....

 

I agree flacco played great during that run but it never should have went further than Denver IMO..... what an awful throw and an even worse play by the safety.

[thebandit27]

18 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

or Rahim morris taking a time machine back to his pop warner days as he totally whiffed on that awful prayer of a pass that flacco launched into the mile high air....

 

I agree flacco played great during that run but it never should have went further than Denver IMO..... what an awful throw and an even worse play by the safety.

 

To be fair, he was coaching the Redskins' secondary at the time, so he probably shouldn't have been on the field.

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

To be fair, he was coaching the Redskins' secondary at the time, so he probably shouldn't have been on the field.

? Moore! Rahim MOORE! LOL.

[transplantbillsfan]

21 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

......Let's assume that Allen did in fact play with a bad O-line and bad WR last season (wich I am good with...that seems like a reasonable assumption)  WHY would Allen decide on purpose to do the LEAST optimal thing he can do under those circumstances?  A bad line would mean poor protection to allow time for downfield plays to develope and those would supposedly develop less often and more slowly with bad WR.  The optimal thing to do under these circumstance would be designed plays/audibles, RPO action etc that would happen quickly and a read made more quickly to a shorter, faster develping route to mitigate the bad Oline and bad WR.  

 

Either the coaches called bad plays for Allen to try and throw deeper...OR they called good plays and Allen made bad choices.  One of those had to have happened.

 

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the accuracy discussion.

 

But I don't disagree with you.

 

Decision making was Allen's single biggest problem last year.

 

Not accuracy.

 

But as to the bolded, are you just assuming Allen had the ability to freely audible?

 

He was a rookie.

[transplantbillsfan]

14 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

And I’m suggesting that he had a great run if you look at the box score, but the o line, running game and outstanding WR play all factored in.

 

and Ray Lewis’s defense was elite. They held the pats to 13 POINTS! 

 

Rice and Pierce were incredible. Boldin was RAC marchine and made contested catches like no one else. Flacco was still riding a lousey completion percentage. But he didn't toss any picks and Torrey, Anquan and even the last guy you’d expect, jacoby Jones played out of their minds. 

 

Defense was lights out incredible with picks and points in the playoffs.  +6 in TOs...  

 

Put Flacco on that same team and he’s winning it again. 

 

Hell Fitpatrick gets a ring on that squad. 

 

Such a stupid post.

 

Such Flacco hate.

 

Flacco is why they made that playoff run and why they won that Super Bowl.

 

It's really that simple.

[Zerovoltz]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the accuracy discussion.

 

But I don't disagree with you.

 

Decision making was Allen's single biggest problem last year.

 

Not accuracy.

 

But as to the bolded, are you just assuming Allen had the ability to freely audible?

 

He was a rookie.

 

He probalby didn't have much freedom to audible, but there is plenty of film where you can tell Allen has deliberately passed up an open, short, designed route, to throw downfield to a target that isn't open etc.  I think Baldinger did a film breakdown (it may have been someone else) showing Allen doing this on many occasions and more often than not, resulting in a negative play.

 

I don't care how you want to break it down...or what word you want to use...I like to use the term passing efficiency because it implies the entire team as the passing game....Allen (and the team) aren't going to win much if they aren't more efficient when passing....and that probably has more to do with Allen than the other parts.....can't wait to see how he does with the better roster and the whole offseason of coaching etc.  

 

[SydneyBillsFan]

Louis Riddick on ESPN talking about Buffalo and Josh:

 

I love Sean and what he is doing with the roster, but I just don't have faith in an inaccurate QB like Josh. And if you do have a QB like that, it's no use drafting small WRs like Beasley and Brown with small catch radiuses. Glass half empty for mine.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Such a stupid post; (ready.... here it is) 

 

Such Flacco hate.

 

Flacco is why they made that playoff run and why they won that Super Bowl.

 

It's really that simple.

 

You prefaced your post well lobotomyBF.   

 

In a complex world, Simple minds need simple answers. 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[transplantbillsfan]

12 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

Louis Riddick on ESPN talking about Buffalo and Josh:

 

I love Sean and what he is doing with the roster, but I just don't have faith in an inaccurate QB like Josh. And if you do have a QB like that, it's no use drafting small WRs like Beasley and Brown with small catch radiuses. Glass half empty for mine.

 

Well. Louis Riddick is entitled to his own opinion, but how much you wanna bet he didn't actually watch all of Allen's passes this year?