MrEpsYtown Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 I mean they also just hired a head coach without a ton experience who just got fired from his college job. His teams sucked even though he had Baker a Mayfield and Patrick Mahomes. Joseph is a Mike Nolan-Wade Phillips guy so he does have experience as a 3-4 guy so it does make some sense. Joseph is not a head coach, but as a DC hire I don't think it's so bad.
LSHMEAB Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Some Bronco fans I know say he’s got some F’ed off field skeletons in his closet too. I can’t remember exactly what it was, but I think it may have involved domestic violence. Anyone know of any off field things with him? My friend just kept complaining that not only was he a terrible HC, but was a POS off the field and couldn’t believe he was still their HC. Nebulous sexual assault allegations in 2003 as an assistant at CU. No charges were filed and many people claim the allegations were frivolous. Who knows? 1
Big Turk Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, dave mcbride said: A lot of people thought he did an excellent job in Miami given the extremely low level of defensive talent while he was there. The consensus view was that he did it with smoke and mirrors given how bad the defensive roster was. It was much discussed at the time of his hiring by Denver. People focus too much on numbers/rankings without considering the talent a coach has to work with. I'm not saying Joseph is the second coming, but it is a fact that Miami's defensive talent was horrific in 2016, and they went to the playoffs. An excellent job? His defense finished near the bottom in every statistical category... 2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: Same time results matter for Daboll? Just sayin..... You mean the guy who got almost 25 PPG from this offense over the last 7 games of the season? Not the best performance in the NFL but pretty damn good considering what we had to work with... Maybe you should actually be aware of the facts before you post silliness Edited January 12, 2019 by matter2003
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Some Bronco fans I know say he’s got some F’ed off field skeletons in his closet too. I can’t remember exactly what it was, but I think it may have involved domestic violence. Anyone know of any off field things with him? My friend just kept complaining that not only was he a terrible HC, but was a POS off the field and couldn’t believe he was still their HC. Yes.. when he was at Colorado https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/new-broncos-coach-vance-joseph-disputes-sexual-assault-allegations/amp/
Nextmanup Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 12 hours ago, whatdrought said: The league is full of retread coaches. It's amazing to me. NFL ownership is the most conservative group of people you will ever find. For the most part, they are utterly afraid to take any risk whatsoever, and prefer the safety associated with hiring coaches who have NFL experience, even if they stink. Half the coaching personnel in the league should probably not be in the league. I think of guys like Dave Wannstedt, who is now mercifully no longer in the league...he made a career out of being a bad coach in the NFL.
vincec Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 15 hours ago, matter2003 said: In a league where results matter more than anything else, how does it not seem to matter with him? His defense sucked in Miami and then somehow he turns that into a promotion to a HC in Denver...his team sucked in Denver both years he was there and the defense got worse, and now he is rewarded again by getting another DC job?? When do results start mattering for him?? Daboll
dave mcbride Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 12 hours ago, matter2003 said: An excellent job? His defense finished near the bottom in every statistical category... You mean the guy who got almost 25 PPG from this offense over the last 7 games of the season? Not the best performance in the NFL but pretty damn good considering what we had to work with... Maybe you should actually be aware of the facts before you post silliness Um ... I think you missed my point.
Big Turk Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 31 minutes ago, vincec said: Daboll 25 PPG and an improving offense over his 7 last games with little to work with...
Mr. WEO Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 16 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: I don't know. They apparently like him a lot more than you do. Teams make dumb mistakes all the time. Fans have misinformed opinions all the time. Let's revisit which is the case in a year. LOL
dave mcbride Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 16 hours ago, matter2003 said: In a league where results matter more than anything else, how does it not seem to matter with him? His defense sucked in Miami and then somehow he turns that into a promotion to a HC in Denver...his team sucked in Denver both years he was there and the defense got worse, and now he is rewarded again by getting another DC job?? When do results start mattering for him?? Actually, the relatively talentless Miami D in 2016 finished 19th in defensive DVOA, the 2017 Broncos D finished 10th, and the 2018 Denver D finished 5th. The common ingredient in these rankings is talent and the lack thereof, which - to repeat myself - is something we fans factor in way too infrequently when assessing coaches. Statistically, the Bills offense was better in 2017 than 2018, but no one in their right mind would argue that Dennison did a better job than Daboll.
Big Turk Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: Actually, the relatively talentless Miami D in 2016 finished 19th in defensive DVOA, the 2017 Broncos D finished 10th, and the 2018 Denver D finished 5th. The common ingredient in these rankings is talent and the lack thereof, which - to repeat myself - is something we fans factor in way too infrequently when assessing coaches. Statistically, the Bills offense was better in 2017 than 2018, but no one in their right mind would argue that Dennison did a better job than Daboll. In Denver he had Von Miller...couldnt have been that lacking for talent. As for Miami they allowed 382 yards and 24 points a game. They sucked. Edited January 12, 2019 by matter2003
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 14 hours ago, matter2003 said: An excellent job? His defense finished near the bottom in every statistical category... You mean the guy who got almost 25 PPG from this offense over the last 7 games of the season? Not the best performance in the NFL but pretty damn good considering what we had to work with... Maybe you should actually be aware of the facts before you post silliness You missed the point. Daboll's offenses in the NFL have not been historically that good. And yet he keeps getting OC jobs. Its the same thing. Only of course Daboll is white and now on the Bills staff and Joseph is black and not a Bills hire. The analogy is spot on.
Big Turk Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said: You missed the point. Daboll's offenses in the NFL have not been historically that good. And yet he keeps getting OC jobs. Its the same thing. Only of course Daboll is white and now on the Bills staff and Joseph is black and not a Bills hire. The analogy is spot on. Other than 2 of the best coaches in history wanting him to be their OC...Saban and Bellichick. Obviously they see something you dont.
LSHMEAB Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Other than 2 of the best coaches in history wanting him to be their OC...Saban and Bellichick. Obviously they see something you dont. In Joseph's one season as a DC, his unit ranked 18th. Brian Daboll, in 4 stints, has never had an offense that ranked in the top 20. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 40 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: In Joseph's one season as a DC, his unit ranked 18th. Brian Daboll, in 4 stints, has never had an offense that ranked in the top 20. It’s amazing how many excuses are made for our guys but aren’t made for Other teams coaches. I think Denver had the #3 defense last year. If Brian Daboll has the #3 offense at any point in his career, I’m be 100% fine with him. 1
LSHMEAB Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s amazing how many excuses are made for our guys but aren’t made for Other teams coaches. I think Denver had the #3 defense last year. If Brian Daboll has the #3 offense at any point in his career, I’m be 100% fine with him. I don't entirely understand the premise of the thread. He's been moderately successful on the defensive side of the ball, so there's nothing unusual about a team hiring him as a DC.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I don't entirely understand the premise of the thread. He's been moderately successful on the defensive side of the ball, so there's nothing unusual about a team hiring him as a DC. Plus if I’m a first time head coach, I’d like a former head coach around to help out. Andu dont know if Joseph is a great coach. But he got screwed by QBs”guru” Elway. 1
LSHMEAB Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Plus if I’m a first time head coach, I’d like a former head coach around to help out. Andu dont know if Joseph is a great coach. But he got screwed by QBs”guru” Elway. I wouldn't be happy if the Bills hired him as HC. The QB situation was a mess, but he's gonna have to earn another shot. I'd hardly be outraged if he was hired as a DC. He'll have to earn another shot at that. Meh. To each their own, right? I still don't get it. Edited January 12, 2019 by LSHMEAB
The Frankish Reich Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 4 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Actually, the relatively talentless Miami D in 2016 finished 19th in defensive DVOA, the 2017 Broncos D finished 10th, and the 2018 Denver D finished 5th. The common ingredient in these rankings is talent and the lack thereof, which - to repeat myself - is something we fans factor in way too infrequently when assessing coaches. Statistically, the Bills offense was better in 2017 than 2018, but no one in their right mind would argue that Dennison did a better job than Daboll. Agreed. Not a bad hire at all for DC. The Broncos offense was putrid - in fact, clearly worse than the Bills post-Allen's return. But the defense held together even after some significant injuries. I kind of like what the Cards did here, pairing Kingsbury with Joseph. Who knows whether it'll work, but it sure beats the hell out of Denver's theory of Fangio + Kubiak (now with Kubiak gone) 2
Big Turk Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said: In Joseph's one season as a DC, his unit ranked 18th. Brian Daboll, in 4 stints, has never had an offense that ranked in the top 20. No his unit ranked 29th. By the actual rankings.
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