Greg Roman promoted to OC in Baltimore

[Bill from NYC]

20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Kirby Smart is good. Kirk Ferentz is good. Bill O'Brien is good. And Saban was an assistant to Belichick. He's good.

 

Jalen Hurts, however, is not good.  As for the comparison with Kiffin, they averaged 455 yds/game under Kiffin and 444 under Daboll. The difference is negligible. They declined from 38.8 ppg to 37.1, but those numbers are fishy anyway given that the vast majority of the games in both seasons were utter blowouts. 

If you don't think he stinks, I don't know what to say. Guys like that who are good runners come on the scene and fool teams for a season, but they when other teams that are good (Auburn, Georgia) get a lot of film on that player, he will fall apart. He's a terrible thrower, and he's thinking about transferring. He'll never play in the NFL as a starting QB. 

Daboll also might have helped out a bit by bringing Foster on board.

[LSHMEAB]

Roman was one of the better OC's we've had in Buffalo. Seems like a good fit for Baltimore. I think they're gonna be a really tough team next season. With virtually every team going finesse, they're going old school. What they've done is assembled the proper personnel/coaching staff to play smashmouth defense AND offense. Not an easy task.

 

Not sure if you can win a SB like that anymore, but that's clearly their MO.

[Tcali]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Appreciate the conversation Dave.  But this sounds like my Dick Jauron defense.  The fact he got 7 wins out of those crappy rosters was amazing.  Did that make him a good coach?  Honestly, I’m asking.  That’s what I feel like you are saying for Daboll.  I’d argue his connections have keep him employed more than his actual resume.

 

but again, I’ll love for him to lead a dynamic offense and make Allen into a franchise guy.  But man, the evidence isn’t great.

I think Allen would be great in a Roman offense.

completely agree cbiscuit....Roman for HC 2020??

Edited January 11, 2019 by Tcali

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I dunno. I thought Daboll called good games this season. Talent was the issue. 

 

I agree. I totally understand where C.Biscuit is coming from with the track record in his previous stops as an OC in the NFL, however, never once watching a game this season did I think "Daboll is the problem here." Mind you I was one of the rare beasts who didn't think Rick Dennison was a major problem last year either (though he had to go for pushing the case for Nasty Nate). The problem on this team offensively the past two years has been talent, pure and simple. And if you want evidence of that to me it is that as Allen's play began to elevate and Foster and McKenzie emerged as playmakers the offense suddenly spluttered into some kind of life. 

 

That isnt to say I am sold on Daboll as a top OC.... I am not. But I am sold on the Bills' offensive woes in 2018 being on talent not scheme. 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree. I totally understand where C.Biscuit is coming from with the track record in his previous stops as an OC in the NFL, however, never once watching a game this season did I think "Daboll is the problem here." Mind you I was one of the rare beasts who didn't think Rick Dennison was a major problem last year either (though he had to go for pushing the case for Nasty Nate). The problem on this team offensively the past two years has been talent, pure and simple. And if you want evidence of that to me it is that as Allen's play began to elevate and Foster and McKenzie emerged as playmakers the offense suddenly spluttered into some kind of life. 

 

That isnt to say I am sold on Daboll as a top OC.... I am not. But I am sold on the Bills' offensive woes in 2018 being on talent not scheme. 

Agreed, but I guess my real point is that Daboll, for whatever reason, has been cursed with absolutely awful QB talent in every one of his NFL OC stops. And I truly mean awful. As I said above, the best QB prospect he ever had in his many stops prior to Buffalo was probably Colt McCoy in his rookie season, and he stunk too. Perhaps these are the dues he had to pay to appease the football gods (punishing him for being a longtime-BB guy). I'm hoping they have finally deigned to grant him a good QB--which is what I'm hoping Allen turns out to be. 

[cba fan]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Roman was fired the day after the offense put up 393 yards and 31 points against the Jets.

Rex's D gave up 37 points that day in the loss.

CLEARLY this was the offenses' fault.

lol... very true.

 

I made a comment recently that after that game Rex, off to fire someone,  got confused and walked into the wrong coordinator's office.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Appreciate the conversation Dave.  But this sounds like my Dick Jauron defense.  The fact he got 7 wins out of those crappy rosters was amazing.  Did that make him a good coach?  Honestly, I’m asking.  That’s what I feel like you are saying for Daboll.  I’d argue his connections have keep him employed more than his actual resume.

 

but again, I’ll love for him to lead a dynamic offense and make Allen into a franchise guy.  But man, the evidence isn’t great.

I think Allen would be great in a Roman offense.

 

I think Daboll's past record as an OC is completely uninspiring and does not provide much in the way of evidence that he's a good OC.

 

On the other hand...he went back to the Pats for 4 years then was successful in the college ranks for a year.  People who fail do sometimes learn and grow from the experience and succeed when they get another chance.

 

Time will tell which is true of Daboll.

 

 

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I agree. I totally understand where C.Biscuit is coming from with the track record in his previous stops as an OC in the NFL, however, never once watching a game this season did I think "Daboll is the problem here."

 

Huh.  I watched a number of games where I thought the scheme and playcalling were strange.  Situationally inappropriate on the latter and already shown in previous games not to work well for our guys (while other choices worked better).

 

I did feel he improved through the season.

 

But my jury is out, and while I can't say I watched a game where I thought "Daboll is THE problem", I did watch a number of games where I thought "why is he calling that here?" or "why is he still trying to do that?"

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Maybe Harbaugh has enough attention to detail to make sure plays get in to the QB before 4 seconds are left on the clock.  Rex didn't.  A careful head coach deals with that issue.

Roman had the same problem in San Fran.

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

So basically the same thing only flipping job titles?

[LSHMEAB]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think Daboll's past record as an OC is completely uninspiring and does not provide much in the way of evidence that he's a good OC.

 

On the other hand...he went back to the Pats for 4 years then was successful in the college ranks for a year.  People who fail do sometimes learn and grow from the experience and succeed when they get another chance.

 

Time will tell which is true of Daboll.

 

 

 

Huh.  I watched a number of games where I thought the scheme and playcalling were strange.  Situationally inappropriate on the latter and already shown in previous games not to work well for our guys (while other choices worked better).

 

I did feel he improved through the season.

 

But my jury is out, and while I can't say I watched a game where I thought "Daboll is THE problem", I did watch a number of games where I thought "why is he calling that here?" or "why is he still trying to do that?"

Didn't like the run scheme (poor OL personnel notwithstanding), but hopefully that was on Castillo.

 

As to the situational playcalling, the one that sticks in my craw was the gadget play on 3rd and 4 against the Jets. Everything "normal" was clicking on offense. You pull those shenanigans on 1st or 2nd down IMO. Looking back on that game, it was a pretty significant turning point.

 

Did seem to improve as the season progressed, but I'm far from sold.

[BuffaloMatt]

Now everyone will know that Baltimore's game plan will be run run pass punt. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by BuffaloMatt

[YoloinOhio]

43 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Roman had the same problem in San Fran.

So basically the same thing only flipping job titles?

Nope, he’s leaving now 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

Lamar Jackson is Lamar Jackson as Tyrod Taylor is Tyrod Taylor. You work with what you got . If you don't have a conventional passer you can't devise a conventional offense. How do you have a coherent offense when from a conventional sense you can't have a coherent offense because the running and passing game don't work in tandem? So you do your best to magnify your strengths and minimize your gaping lack of a passing game. 

 

The issue/problem isn't who the coach is so much as how the offense is constructed. When a qb doesn't have an ability to play a well-rounded game then you as a OC is limited. 

 

Tyrod couldn't add enough to his (passing and vision) game to advance it. The issue is whether Lamar can add to his (passing and vision) game to advance it. Again, you work with what you got. 

 

The issue with Roman is - its more complex than maybe it needs to be?  Tons of formations, tons of running plays - all this means is it tends to take longer to get plays in.  This gets you to the line late... this makes it harder to set protection, use pre-snap motion, and even get the snap off in time.  It wasn't just Tyrod, he had the same problems in SF.  It's like the opposite of mcvay - who wants you lined up while he's still in the headset.  

 

If he can clean up that aspect of his game-calling i think he'll do just fine.  His offense is tailor made for LJ.  The 3rd read is like... always to run.  You have a high sack rate but tend to actually not lose a ton of yards on the sacks.  Take some deep shots - lots of hitches and out routes.  Easy reads - its there or it isn't.  If it isn't, RUN.

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Roman was one of the better OC's we've had in Buffalo. Seems like a good fit for Baltimore. I think they're gonna be a really tough team next season. With virtually every team going finesse, they're going old school. What they've done is assembled the proper personnel/coaching staff to play smashmouth defense AND offense. Not an easy task.

 

Not sure if you can win a SB like that anymore, but that's clearly their MO.

 

Tyrod Taylor Reunion?  

[LSHMEAB]

17 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

The issue with Roman is - its more complex than maybe it needs to be?  Tons of formations, tons of running plays - all this means is it tends to take longer to get plays in.  This gets you to the line late... this makes it harder to set protection, use pre-snap motion, and even get the snap off in time.  It wasn't just Tyrod, he had the same problems in SF.  It's like the opposite of mcvay - who wants you lined up while he's still in the headset.  

 

If he can clean up that aspect of his game-calling i think he'll do just fine.  His offense is tailor made for LJ.  The 3rd read is like... always to run.  You have a high sack rate but tend to actually not lose a ton of yards on the sacks.  Take some deep shots - lots of hitches and out routes.  Easy reads - its there or it isn't.  If it isn't, RUN.

 

Tyrod Taylor Reunion?  

You know what? Naaaaaah. I like Tyrod, but his starting days are over. I will say he wouldn't have given the ball up like LJ!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

36 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

You know what? Naaaaaah. I like Tyrod, but his starting days are over. I will say he wouldn't have given the ball up like LJ!

I meant as LJ's backup.  Familiar with the Roman offense. Probably an upgrade over RG3 at this point with mobility.

Started his career there too.  

Edited January 11, 2019 by dneveu

[LSHMEAB]

5 minutes ago, dneveu said:

I meant as LJ's backup.  Familiar with the Roman offense. Probably an upgrade over RG3 at this point with mobility.

Started his career there too.  

Yeah. Definitely would not be surprised to see him end up there as a backup and I understood what you meant. My post wasn't very clear about that. Also must have a good relationship with Harbaugh as they kept him around as Flacco's primary BU for four years. Best landing spot for Tyrod for sure.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Roman was one of the better OC's we've had in Buffalo. Seems like a good fit for Baltimore. I think they're gonna be a really tough team next season. With virtually every team going finesse, they're going old school. What they've done is assembled the proper personnel/coaching staff to play smashmouth defense AND offense. Not an easy task.

 

Not sure if you can win a SB like that anymore, but that's clearly their MO.

 

...odd thing is that rumors were Roman went ballistic when OBD dumped Cassel and he was faced with TT as his QB guy......it does seem to make sense because Wrecks was reportedly responsible for bringing TT in and if he and Roman were at odds, firing seems to fit..........

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

The issue with Roman is - its more complex than maybe it needs to be?  Tons of formations, tons of running plays - all this means is it tends to take longer to get plays in.  This gets you to the line late... this makes it harder to set protection, use pre-snap motion, and even get the snap off in time.  It wasn't just Tyrod, he had the same problems in SF.  It's like the opposite of mcvay - who wants you lined up while he's still in the headset.  

 

If he can clean up that aspect of his game-calling i think he'll do just fine.  His offense is tailor made for LJ.  The 3rd read is like... always to run.  You have a high sack rate but tend to actually not lose a ton of yards on the sacks.  Take some deep shots - lots of hitches and out routes.  Easy reads - its there or it isn't.  If it isn't, RUN.

 

 

There is no disagreement that with a qb such as LJ  and Tyrod that you have to simplify your offense. But as I stated in my comments to Gunner unless there is a progression to the qb's (LJ) game the defenses will take away what you are trying to do.  This is the pro game and not the college game where you can get away with constantly running basic plays. Unless Lamar adds to his ability to run an offense he will confront the same limitations that Taylor dealt with. The issue comes down to is how restricted is the OC's play calling because of the limitations of the qb? As I said before Jackson needs to steadily advance his game the more he plays. Tyrod never got beyond his limitations because he just couldn't. When your tool box doesn't have many tools don't be surprised when you have fewer options to make your offense work.  

 

As I stated before a running qb has a shorter shelf life. Just because you can't do something well at the early stages of your qbing career that doesn't mean that you can't expand your game to make you and your offense better. 

[Bing Bong]

8 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

So is it even certain that Harbaugh is back?

 

Roman got a raw deal in Buffalo.  I still think he’s a good OC.  Really has never had a great QB to work with.  

He must have ****ed Rex or more important people off. My theory. Regardless, Anthony Lynn was very good, and probably made the decision that much easier.

 

Is it me or have Rex's teams been pretty great at ground in pound in this era. He may have a positive influence on the offense. Brought in Tyrod when we were ****Ed at quarterback, and gave us a way better offense overnight. Not to mention he made Thomas friggin Jones an all-pro at Jets 2 straight years.

 

Maybe he doesn't want to admit it but he could have a unique offensive ability.. shrouded by his ego as a defensive Mastermind. Let's see him leave defense to the DC and be involved with offensive personnel and test this one out. We may make a good coach out of Rex yet!

[Charles Romes]

I'm surprised how long it took for Roman to resurface. A run game guru.  His departure highlighted how strong of a coach Lynn is.  

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Nope, he’s leaving now 

 

 

 

I think they will end up regretting these moves.  Roman is great in designing a run game.  Best in the business.  Not so great in the passing department.  Not so great in being an actual OC.

4 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

The issue with Roman is - its more complex than maybe it needs to be?  Tons of formations, tons of running plays - all this means is it tends to take longer to get plays in.  This gets you to the line late... this makes it harder to set protection, use pre-snap motion, and even get the snap off in time.  It wasn't just Tyrod, he had the same problems in SF.  It's like the opposite of mcvay - who wants you lined up while he's still in the headset.  

 

If he can clean up that aspect of his game-calling i think he'll do just fine.  His offense is tailor made for LJ.  The 3rd read is like... always to run.  You have a high sack rate but tend to actually not lose a ton of yards on the sacks.  Take some deep shots - lots of hitches and out routes.  Easy reads - its there or it isn't.  If it isn't, RUN.

 

Tyrod Taylor Reunion?  

Part of the problem has been that even though he was an OC he was really just the run game guy.  Both San Fran and Bills ran offensive plays by committee. I believe this was the case at Stanford too. So they made these play calls through 2 to 3 people.  On top of that Roman would send in like 3 plays at once.  At least that is what I have read in some of the articles.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Scott7975