formerlyofCtown Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He got screwed here. I would rather have him than Brian Daboll. Let us know how you feel next year at this time. Edited January 11, 2019 by formerlyofCtown
Fan in Chicago Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I think Roman is a bit of a mad scientist type, yep. The other thing Lynn did was install fewer plays each week. Roman would install a very high volume and the view at the end was the players were not executing as well as they could due to that volume. Roman is going to be in a tough spot. If the passing game is again inadequate, it is likely his OC tenure will be quite brief. But will that be due to having another QB who is a poor passer ? History will tell. Another problem is that if Roman continues developing a the high number of play, it will be tough for a low-Wonderlic Jackson to execute.
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He got screwed here. I would rather have him than Brian Daboll. I dunno. I thought Daboll called good games this season. Talent was the issue. 2
YoloinOhio Posted January 11, 2019 Author Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, BuffaloBillies said: Greg Salas! Was that when he did the flip into the end zone, got hurt, and was never heard from again?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He got screwed here. I would rather have him than Brian Daboll.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I dunno. I thought Daboll called good games this season. Talent was the issue. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RomaGr0.htm at what point, when someone is basically a bottom 5 Nfl OC for their entire career, do you stop blaming the players? At what point does it become Daboll’s responsibilities?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 3 hours ago, eball said: Until Roman learns how to develop a passer and passing game we've seen how this ends. 49ers in the Super Bowl?
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RomaGr0.htm at what point, when someone is basically a bottom 5 Nfl OC for their entire career, do you stop blaming the players? At what point does it become Daboll’s responsibilities? I know you don't want to hear it, but Daboll has uniformly been in awful situations--insurmountable situations, I'd say. Christ, he was reduced to rolling out Brady Quinn (in two stops!), Chad Henne, Seneca Wallace, and FREAKING LATE-ERA JP LOSMAN!!! Plus a near-death version of Matt Cassell, who sucks. That said, the Bills' offense showed a fair bit of progress late in the season, and I never questioned the playcalling. Not hard, I know; they had nowhere to go but up given how deep in the basement they were. In contrast, Roman oversaw an extremely talented roster in SF. Edited January 11, 2019 by dave mcbride 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I know you don't want to hear it, but Daboll has uniformly been in awful situations--insurmountable situations, I'd say. That said, the Bills' offense showed a fair bit of progress late in the season, and I never questioned the playcalling. Not hard, I know; they had nowhere to go but up given how deep in the basement they were. In contrast, Roman oversaw an extremely talented roster in SF. Roman had a top 10 scoring offense in Buffalo. and if Daboll was such a good scheming coach, held back by lack of talent, why won’t a good team hire him? Edited January 11, 2019 by C.Biscuit97
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Roman had a top 10 scoring offense. and if Daboll was such a good scheming coach, held back by lack of talent, why won’t a good team hire him? Christ, he was reduced to rolling out Brady Quinn (in two stops!), Chad Henne, Matt Moore, Seneca Wallace, Derek Anderson, and FREAKING LATE-ERA JP LOSMAN!!! Plus a near-death version of Matt Cassell, who sucks. The best QB he ever had was the early career version of Colt McCoy, who also sucked. Keep focusing on the top line numbers, and you miss the real drivers of situations: the players, and in particular the QBs. He has never had a QB who is better than a garden-variety backup, and that is a fact -- inarguable. 5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Roman had a top 10 scoring offense in Buffalo. and if Daboll was such a good scheming coach, held back by lack of talent, why won’t a good team hire him? Um ... because Nick Saban and Bill Belichick keep hiring him? Edited January 11, 2019 by dave mcbride 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 3 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said: So is it even certain that Harbaugh is back? Roman got a raw deal in Buffalo. I still think he’s a good OC. Really has never had a great QB to work with. Roman is a specialized OC. He has had some success with mobile, running QB. Yet that success has always fallen short of being able to compete in a shoot-out. Analysts who know something have commented that his passing game does not seem very well designed. I guess it depends upon what you mean by "great QB to work with". It's actually not clear to me that if Roman were handed, say, Drew Brees, he could design the kind of passing game that makes Brees so effective. But his ability to craft a creative and effective running game can not be doubted. One thing is clear: Jackson has become the Ravens "Ride or Die"
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Christ, he was reduced to rolling out Brady Quinn (in two stops!), Chad Henne, Matt Moore, Seneca Wallace, and FREAKING LATE-ERA JP LOSMAN!!! Plus a near-death version of Matt Cassell, who sucks. Keep focusing on the top line numbers, and you miss the real drivers of situations: the players. Appreciate the conversation Dave. But this sounds like my Dick Jauron defense. The fact he got 7 wins out of those crappy rosters was amazing. Did that make him a good coach? Honestly, I’m asking. That’s what I feel like you are saying for Daboll. I’d argue his connections have keep him employed more than his actual resume. but again, I’ll love for him to lead a dynamic offense and make Allen into a franchise guy. But man, the evidence isn’t great. 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Roman is a specialized OC. He has had some success with mobile, running QB. Yet that success has always fallen short of being able to compete in a shoot-out. Analysts who know something have commented that his passing game does not seem very well designed. I guess it depends upon what you mean by "great QB to work with". It's actually not clear to me that if Roman were handed, say, Drew Brees, he could design the kind of passing game that makes Brees so effective. But his ability to craft a creative and effective running game can not be doubted. One thing is clear: Jackson has become the Ravens "Ride or Die" I think Allen would be great in a Roman offense.
auburnbillsbacker Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 The Bills had a top 10 offense with Roman and the fans complained that too many of the yards were rushing yards. He is a good coach and so is Anthony Lynn. The Bills were lucky and still liked to complain about the offense. 1
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Appreciate the conversation Dave. But this sounds like my Dick Jauron defense. The fact he got 7 wins out of those crappy rosters was amazing. Did that make him a good coach? Honestly, I’m asking. That’s what I feel like you are saying for Daboll. I’d argue his connections have keep him employed more than his actual resume. but again, I’ll love for him to lead a dynamic offense and make Allen into a franchise guy. But man, the evidence isn’t great. I think Allen would be great in a Roman offense. He was a by all accounts a very good position coach in NE, and he did a perfectly good job in Alabama despite the lousy QB (they won the national championship!). And he was certainly right about this: https://www.rollbamaroll.com/2018/1/16/16896212/jumbo-package-daboll-left-after-personnel-frustration-wanted-to-play-tua-sooner 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Christ, he was reduced to rolling out Brady Quinn (in two stops!), Chad Henne, Matt Moore, Seneca Wallace, Derek Anderson, and FREAKING LATE-ERA JP LOSMAN!!! Plus a near-death version of Matt Cassell, who sucks. The best QB he ever had was the early career version of Colt McCoy, who also sucked. Keep focusing on the top line numbers, and you miss the real drivers of situations: the players, and in particular the QBs. He has never had a QB who is better than a garden-variety backup, and that is a fact -- inarguable. Um ... because Nick Saban and Bill Belichick keep hiring him? Remind me who are the great Belichick and Saban coaches who go on to have success other places? Fact is, most of these guys struggle badly once they leave the successful bubble of NE and Bama. jalen Hurts was better under Lane Kiffin as a freshman than under Daboll. Sorry for venting but I feel like we will be having the same conversation next year wondering why our offense wasn’t better. 7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He was a by all accounts a very good position coach in NE, and he did a perfectly good job in Alabama despite the lousy QB (they won the national championship!). And he was certainly right about this: https://www.rollbamaroll.com/2018/1/16/16896212/jumbo-package-daboll-left-after-personnel-frustration-wanted-to-play-tua-sooner Their lousy Qb was the SEC player of the year as a freshman under Kiffin!!!
Thurman#1 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RomaGr0.htm at what point, when someone is basically a bottom 5 Nfl OC for their entire career, do you stop blaming the players? At what point does it become Daboll’s responsibilities? When he gets some good players. Look at the crap he's had at QB. This might've been his best QB group this year.
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Remind me who are the great Belichick and Saban coaches who go on to have success other places? Fact is, most of these guys struggle badly once they leave the successful bubble of NE and Bama. jalen Hurts was better under Lane Kiffin as a freshman than under Daboll. Sorry for venting but I feel like we will be having the same conversation next year wondering why our offense wasn’t better. Kirby Smart is good. Kirk Ferentz is good. Bill O'Brien is good. And Saban was an assistant to Belichick. He's good. Jalen Hurts, however, is not good. As for the comparison with Kiffin, they averaged 455 yds/game under Kiffin and 444 under Daboll. The difference is negligible. They declined from 38.8 ppg to 37.1, but those numbers are fishy anyway given that the vast majority of the games in both seasons were utter blowouts. 9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Their lousy Qb was the SEC player of the year as a freshman under Kiffin!!! If you don't think he stinks, I don't know what to say. Guys like that who are good runners come on the scene and fool teams for a season, but they when other teams that are good (Auburn, Georgia) get a lot of film on that player, he will fall apart. He's a terrible thrower, and he's thinking about transferring. He'll never play in the NFL as a starting QB. Edited January 11, 2019 by dave mcbride 1
TigerJ Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 Well, we know what Baltimore will do on offense Roman should be good for a QB like Jackson. Roman's expeirince with Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor might have more than a little to do with Harbaugh's motive in making the switch. Wide receivers might become a bit disgruntledat the reduced number of receptions, though the percentage of deep balls should rise. Roman's tyheory is you run the ball so effectively that you force defenses to overcommit to stopping it,k leaving the secondary more vulnerable to deep passes. 1
JohnC Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Roman is the best at hiding QBs, no doubt, he did it with Kap and did it Tyrod and will do it with Lamar. That said even without being able to run a "conventional" passing offense as you term it, I think it IS still possible to run a more coherent scheme where the passing game works off the run game. I think about the Kubaik offense which has successfully been run first and hidden average to bad Quarterbacks and you can do it. I'm a big Greg Roman fan I just think that it is possible to build a better pass game onto his rush offense. More boot action and throwing from more moving pockets was something I always wanted to see more of with Tyrod. Run it off and out of the same formation and look as the speed pitch plays they ran so effectively and I think you'd get linebackers biting. I agree with your general sentiment. However, where I have a little difference with you is that over time you can only do so much with qbs who are unique attribute qbs. As you well know teams adjust to what you do well and try to force you into doing what you don't do well. If Jackson wants to be a long-term franchise qb he is going to have to steadily add to his game. I also apply this standard to Josh Allen. The bottom line is that success for a qb is more predicated on the arm and mind talent, and less so on the leg talent. As like you I thought Roman did a good job with us after having to deal with the talent limitations he had to work with. Coaching is certainly an important ingredient for success in this league. On the other hand the most determinative factor for success is the overall talent that a coach has to work with. In general, we are both rowing in the same boat.
Tcali Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 4 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said: So is it even certain that Harbaugh is back? Roman got a raw deal in Buffalo. I still think he’s a good OC. Really has never had a great QB to work with. so true. but we couldnt tell how smart he actually was til the whole tyrod thing played out. people were thinking they were holding him back..when in fact they were optimizing him.
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