Four years after drafting Winston and Mariota 1 and 2, the Bucs and Titans are in “QB Purgatory”

[njbuff]

The unfortunate fact is that a lot of these kids don't make it as QB's in the NFL.

 

It is amazing to be that the jury is still out on Winston and Mariota .

 

Which makes it all that more amazing with the season that Mahomes is having.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

My mother used to say this to us when my sisters and I were kids back in the '70s and early '80s.

 

Totally. My dad used to say it all the time to us. I also saw the term referenced once on a Sponge Bob Square Pants episode that my kids were watching. I thought it was quite a clever reference, considering the nature of such a show.

[TigerJ]

At any given time, perhaps half the teams in the league at most have QBs that they are completely comfortable with leading their team.   There is only a handful of truly elite QBs.  Among the obvious  have nots (and Buffalo has been a have not for nearly to decades) the most important goal is to find a good QB.  At least they know what they need to do.  Teams in QB purgatory have the dilemma of what to have as a goal.  Is it to give the QB they have the best chance he can have to succeed?  That's the easiest thing to do, but it leaves fans with the lingering doubt that the team will ever be truly successful.  If they opt to focus on finding a franchise QB, there is likewise no guarantee of success, because, after all, there aren't enough of those guys to go around.  That's why most Bills fans are desperately hoping Josh Allen turns out to be really good.

Edited January 11, 2019 by TigerJ

[formerlyofCtown]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep.........possibly the dumbest thing he ever said as a Bill.

 

And of course the apologist crowd here ate it up.

 

While the % of QB's drafted that become franchise types is low............the list of QB's that the Bills took a pass on since draft day 2000 was long enough and full of guys who took their teams to SB's to call "purgatory" as bullish*t.

 

Meanwhile the only #1 overall picks to win SB's in the 2000's are/were the Manning bros...........and before that the most recently drafted #1 overall QB to win a SB had been Aikman drafted in 1989(though 1983 #1 Elway won 2 SB's in the late 1990's).    

And Im sure that Violin is playing for him now as he is VP of the XFL.  How much money do you suppose he has made for such a stupid man that says stupid things.

[Swill Merchant]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

And one of the folks on here who makes grand proclamations about how smart he is at assessing QB play, constantly criticizes Allen,  etc. etc., when that draft was coming up claimed he'd trade an entire draft for Winston.

People who lived in EJ's house shouldn't throw stones.

[Chandler#81]

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I think there's at least a chance that Jameis gets a huge contract in Tampa. I don't really foresee that at this point with Mariota, mainly because he can't stay healthy, but he also hasn't been very productive even when he is healthy.

 

I don't envy the position either of those teams are in though. In my opinion, the worst QB situation to be in is having to pay a guy you know is an average-ish starter $20+ million per year. In that situation, I'd rather kick them to the curb and take my chances with a cheap vet and the draft. I imagine that if Jameis has another solid season, he'll get paid though; he already owns basically every passing record in Tampa's history and he's only a year older than Baker Mayfield.

It really amazes me how quickly the NFL figures out how to minimize rookie QBs who enjoyed wild success in college. These guy lit up the League early on, but have been exposed for what they aren’t good at and rendered beatable by it. I’m encouraged early on with how the Bills and Allen have handled this and how he can make the defense pay by altering their scheme to contain him. IF, IF! we can develop a strong run game -specifically with a power Back, defenses will be powerless to stop us.

[oldmanfan]

23 minutes ago, Swill Merchant said:

People who lived in EJ's house shouldn't throw stones.

I thought EJ might be the guy after than Carolina game his rookie year., but he got worse instead of better.   Never did I say he was worth an entire draft.

[Saxum]

5 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

In fact, I don't ever recall hearing that phrase before Whaley. If he was smart, he'd have patented it and could be collecting royalties now?

 

He is smart enough not to pay money to a huckster trying to patent a phrase.  Have you been fooled?

 

That phrase was created by the press and I'd like to see the fight over who could copywrong it.

[Nextmanup]

Winston was never going to be good in the NFL.

 

Mariota, however, has been a disappointment.  I thought he would do better than he has.

 

 

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

No F'n way.  There are two ways to win in this league as I see it. 

 

1.  Have one of the best QBs around and pay them what they deserve.  Brady, Rogers, Brees, that level of guy.

2.  Hit on a young QB in their rookie deal that is "good enough" and spend on talent around them while they are still cheap.  If he really shines you sign him to money referred to in point #1 and ride him for 10 more years.

2b.  Get a good, cheap back-up/journeyman type that could also potentially thrive surrounded by the right talent, or just have a magical season like the Vikings last year (or Foles).

 

There is no "overpay for mediocre at best QBs at the expense of the rest of the roster's talent and then go win a Super Bowl."

 

You forgot #3 trade a starting DE for another team's backup (say John Skeleton) who has not seen the field.

[aristocrat]

Coach carousel that’s tough but he seems to win

[LSHMEAB]

6 hours ago, Magox said:

Otherwise known as the Tannehill Conundrum 

That's exactly what I was thinking. There is nothing worse than a Ryan Tannehill, who's not quite bad enough to bench, but not nearly good enough to get it done. He's the definition of a coach killer.

 

My preference with Allen is that he never falls into that category. Either take off and fly(HIGHLY PREFERABLE) or make it clear you're not the answer. Don't keep us in limbo!

4 hours ago, DC Tom said:

Winston's off-field issues naturally raise questions about him.

 

Mariota?  He's going to have his fifth OC in five years?  They're in coaching purgatory, not QB purgatory. 

Chicken or egg. Average QB's tend to get coach's fired because the organization doesn't want to give up on the QB. We just need the right OC or HC!

 

Not a big fan of Winston or Mariotta. 

[mjt328]

At this point, both guys are below average (I would personally rank them in the Top 20-25, but not any higher).

Both have been in the NFL for four years with very little improvement from their rookie seasons. 

That's longer than lots of QBs get to prove themselves.  So time is running out.

 

If I am Tampa Bay and Tennessee, I give them until mid-season next year.  If they don't look like franchise material, then I would be pretty confident it's not going to happen.  Bench them for a younger/developmental guy and tank for the 2020 draft.

[BuffAlone]

12 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

He is smart enough not to pay money to a huckster trying to patent a phrase.  Have you been fooled?

 

That phrase was created by the press and I'd like to see the fight over who could copywrong it.

Im not fooled until I see a link saying otherwise. Got one? I'm just saying..I never heard the phrase until Whaley said it

[Augie]

5 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Imo, Winston still has more upside, but he’s probably headed for jail by the time he’s 30. Marriota hasn’t been able to stay healthy enough to grow more into the position. Has either team committed to the 5th year?

 

I’m not a fan of immaturity, but I wonder if it’s true that Winston stopped drinking after the Uber groping incident. I did hear that. I haven’t paid much attention, but it’s been a couple years since he’s been an idiot, right? The actual Uber incident was a while ago. That might give me some hope, if true. I’m more concerned about the direction of his life than his football career, but if he gets his life right, the whole football thing stands a much better chance.

 

Did he end this year on the upswing?  Was he hurt, playing lousy or just a jerk when Fitzy was playing early on? I’m really not sure, but certainly curious. 

[eanyills]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep.........possibly the dumbest thing he ever said as a Bill.

 

And of course the apologist crowd here ate it up.

 

While the % of QB's drafted that become franchise types is low............the list of QB's that the Bills took a pass on since draft day 2000 was long enough and full of guys who took their teams to SB's to call "purgatory" as bullish*t.

 

 

That’s not what Whaley meant by QB purgatory. He simply meant that the Bills hadn’t had that franchise-caliber QB to lead the team, not that none had existed in the draft all those years.

 

 

The team was in QB purgatory, not the league. It was a great phrase.

Edited January 10, 2019 by eanyills

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Would you sign either to a giant QB deal?

 

...a bit confused (as expected) bud....are we talking pre-draft or today with the benefit of hindsight?.........

[RaoulDuke79]

That's the thing. People complain, like it's so easy to get a good QB. For every Mahomes (and it's still early, but he looks like the real deal) there are ~20-30 Winstons and Marriotas. We've been in purgatory for quite some time, but I'm confident we've found our guy in Allen.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Great link again Yolo. I absolutely would not want to sign either of these guys to a monster deal. Are they better than what we've trotted out for much of the year outside of Allen? Sure. But that's not the question. Just good enough to avoid a straight up QB housecleaning, but most certainly not good enough to take you to the promised land on their shoulders, which is the ultimate goal (or should be) of any FO. Would you also add someone like Matthew Stafford to this mix? 

I'd add Kirk Cousins to this mix

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...a bit confused (as expected) bud....are we talking pre-draft or today with the benefit of hindsight?.........

Today . They are both heading into  their 5th year options and will either need signed to franchise QB deals by the teams that drafted them, or set free to the market.