ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[HeHateMe]

1 hour ago, 947 said:

Does anybody think Mahomes would've embraced Buffalo the way Allen has? If we had drafted him, and he still somehow developed here the way he did under Reid, we'd probably have been forced to trade him a year before his rookie deal was up because he'd want to test the market.

 

Why wouldn't he?  And who says Josh wouldn't want out of Buffalo in a few years...

 

[HeHateMe]

2 hours ago, racketmaster said:

Because scouting staffs rarely turn over in the spring before the draft. If McDermott was set on wanting Beane to come in as the GM and could not get Carolina to let him go until after the draft, then it leaves the Bills in sort of a pickle. 

 

Drafting a qb in the first round is one of the most important decisions an organization can make. McDermott clearly did not trust Whaley to make that decision as he was immediately let go after the draft. 

- Maybe McDermott was not comfortable making the call on the qb as he was not out in the road scouting the quarterbacks all season. I like that he was able to set his ego aside and punt the major decision down the road a year when they had all their ducks in order. 

- McDermott was a brand new coach and involved in free agency and coming up with OTA practice schedules. He had spent a ton of time assembling a staff and getting familiar with the organization. To think McDermott would have had enough time to do a proper evaluation of the qb class would be foolish. If he trusted Whaley and the scouts, a qb would have been selected but that was not the case. 

- And let’s just say McDermott went ahead and pulled the trigger on a qb in 2017. What do you think the media would have said when Whaley was fired right after the draft. The media would have had a field day poking fun of McDermott for the way he handled the situation. 

- Additionally, I believe McDermott feels strongly about team culture. He clearly did not like the culture that was present and needed time to get the environment he envisioned. I strongly believe McDermott preferred bringing his rookie qb into a situation in which the culture was good. He would want an optimal situation for the rookie to grow and mature and having a bunch of players that were going to be shipped out might not be the best situation for a young player to grow. 

 

For all all of the above reasons and more, it just was not the right time to draft a quarterback in 2017. So McDermott did the next best thing and that was to trade down and collect more picks so that they had ammunition to go after a qb the following year when their organization was in order. 

 

Whaley wasn't just a scout, he was the GM... no reason he shouldn't of been fired once McDermott was brought in in January or even once the season ended.  There was over 3 1/2 months before the draft.. everyone knew we needed a QB, he didn't have to waste a whole year to see that.

 

Team culture changes when you win, it wouldn't of ruined anybody who wasn't strong enough anyway.  We had way more offensive talent that year anyway for a rookie QB.  Way better than what we had this year especially on the line.

 

The pecking order has McDermott at the top anyways.  This is his team.

[Warcodered]

13 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

 

Whaley wasn't just a scout, he was the GM... no reason he shouldn't of been fired once McDermott was brought in in January or even once the season ended.  There was over 3 1/2 months before the draft.. everyone knew we needed a QB, he didn't have to waste a whole year to see that.

 

Team culture changes when you win, it wouldn't of ruined anybody who wasn't strong enough anyway.  We had way more offensive talent that year anyway for a rookie QB.  Way better than what we had this year especially on the line.

 

The pecking order has McDermott at the top anyways.  This is his team.

How could we even be certain they would of taken Mahomes if they took a QB that year? Why because he lit the NFL up a year later? Because the Chiefs traded to take him at the Bills spot? Deshaun Watson was still available and no one could really predict Mahomes would set NFL records in his second season.

[njbuff]

Why are people automatically assuming that Mahomes would work here.

 

What if Mahomes had to play as a rookie with Buffalo? 

 

Mahomes being a star here is absolutely no guarantee whatsoever. 

 

Allen had to start as a rookie and Mahomes got a chance to sit back as a rookie. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

If Allen becomes a franchise QB here, no one will care about Mahomes, but if Allen busts.................... oh boy.

[racketmaster]

1 hour ago, HeHateMe said:

 

Whaley wasn't just a scout, he was the GM... no reason he shouldn't of been fired once McDermott was brought in in January or even once the season ended.  There was over 3 1/2 months before the draft.. everyone knew we needed a QB, he didn't have to waste a whole year to see that.

 

Team culture changes when you win, it wouldn't of ruined anybody who wasn't strong enough anyway.  We had way more offensive talent that year anyway for a rookie QB.  Way better than what we had this year especially on the line.

 

The pecking order has McDermott at the top anyways.  This is his team.

We can’t use hindsight here when evaluating a decision like this. If we could then Mahomes would have went #1 overall and we would have never had a look at him anyway. 

 

Mahomes was not seen seen as some generational talent so to go after him in 2017 when the organization was not ready would normally not be the best idea, especially when 2018 was supposed to be a very good year for quarterbacks. 

 

I think you are also underestimating what McDermott had on his plate as a first time head coach coming in from a defensive coordinator position. He is trying to settle in and hire staff and fix organizational processes. Free agency is going on and the start of OTAs. We decided to bring Taylor back on a bridge deal so we were not completely devoid of a qb option. And McDermott does not trust Whaley to do the lion share of research on the quarterbacks. This is understandable and makes complete sense. 

 

If if it were me I would have done it the exact same way as McDermott. I have a trusted friend in Beane who I want as my GM. I want to be on the same page and he is an evaluator that I trust. Why would I jump the gun on a quarterback without letting the guy I trust most get involved with this extremely important decision. This is not Mahomes in the 3rd round or later where you are taking a flyer. You would have taken him at 10 and hitching your coaching career and that of the new GM to this quarterback. It was not a good spot to take a first round qb that was not considered a no brainer. It make look like a no brainer now but it was not at the time. 

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

We can’t use hindsight here when evaluating a decision like this. If we could then Mahomes would have went #1 overall and we would have never had a look at him anyway. 

 

Mahomes was not seen seen as some generational talent so to go after him in 2017 when the organization was not ready would normally not be the best idea, especially when 2018 was supposed to be a very good year for quarterbacks. 

 

I think you are also underestimating what McDermott had on his plate as a first time head coach coming in from a defensive coordinator position. He is trying to settle in and hire staff and fix organizational processes. Free agency is going on and the start of OTAs. We decided to bring Taylor back on a bridge deal so we were not completely devoid of a qb option. And McDermott does not trust Whaley to do the lion share of research on the quarterbacks. This is understandable and makes complete sense. 

 

If if it were me I would have done it the exact same way as McDermott. I have a trusted friend in Beane who I want as my GM. I want to be on the same page and he is an evaluator that I trust. Why would I jump the gun on a quarterback without letting the guy I trust most get involved with this extremely important decision. This is not Mahomes in the 3rd round or later where you are taking a flyer. You would have taken him at 10 and hitching your coaching career and that of the new GM to this quarterback. It was not a good spot to take a first round qb that was not considered a no brainer. It make look like a no brainer now but it was not at the time. 

I wish the Bills had drafted Mahomes, but I don't really pin it on the staff. There was a whole lot going on and they made the decisions they made. They probably figured drafting a QB was too important to get wrong and preferred to let it play out for a season and go from there. 

 

What I DO have a problem with is the people twisting themselves in knots saying Mahomes wouldn't have been a great QB in Buffalo etc., etc., etc. Mahomes IS a great quarterback and he would have been great here. KC video game numbers? No. But a talent like that will do his thing anywhere. Why deny reality? 

 

The bottom line is that it's up to Allen to end all the lamenting. If Allen is the real deal, the Mahomes/Bills stuff will die out.

On 1/22/2019 at 12:34 PM, row_33 said:

I would give up almost anything to obtain Mahomes.

 

but that is all over with now, only the future to look forward to with a lot of potential in Allen.

 

Intellectual honesty is a beautiful thing.

[Yav]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:50 AM, Stank_Nasty said:

I believe 100% that if allen had the support of KC's run game, the players going up and getting area code balls for him like Kelce and hill did all year he would have been rookie of the year.

This right here is as accurate as you can get. Mahomes was 50% vs NE and that's because they doubled Hill and did a good job covering Kelce. Hill had 1 catch and the other targets were poorly placed balls that should have been pics but the NE secondary can't catch. If that was a Bills QB at 50% this board would be pissed. All season if you watch KC (and I did with Sunday ticket), you'd see that Mahomes just chucked the ball up and his playmakers adjusted and hauled the balls in. Mahomes struggled with zero coverage against NE for the second time because he struggles to read the D. He's got a strong arm yes but has to leave his feet to get it over the line. Sorry but I'll take Allen, he's got a stronger arm, he's taller and appears to be more athletic. Other than that they are both green. 

[Stank_Nasty]

33 minutes ago, Yav said:

This right here is as accurate as you can get. Mahomes was 50% vs NE and that's because they doubled Hill and did a good job covering Kelce. Hill had 1 catch and the other targets were poorly placed balls that should have been pics but the NE secondary can't catch. If that was a Bills QB at 50% this board would be pissed. All season if you watch KC (and I did with Sunday ticket), you'd see that Mahomes just chucked the ball up and his playmakers adjusted and hauled the balls in. Mahomes struggled with zero coverage against NE for the second time because he struggles to read the D. He's got a strong arm yes but has to leave his feet to get it over the line. Sorry but I'll take Allen, he's got a stronger arm, he's taller and appears to be more athletic. Other than that they are both green. 

no way i'll go that far yet. but my point remains the same..... the balls allen is getting crucified for are getting caught all around the league by plenty other wr's making plays for their qb on a weekly basis.

 

hell, big ben has basically made a career off trusting his wr's with the "area code" toss.

[Yav]

26 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

Maybe because he's a damn good QB?

 

Would Peyton Manning or Tom Brady not have worked had Buffalo drafted them too?

That's simply not true at all.

 

I watched a youtube video analyzing Mahomes and he is actually amazing at reading complex defenses's. 

I guess you’re a better judge of his ability than Romo who actually pointed it out during the game. Mahomes didn’t know what to and the play resulted in a sack. But hey you watched YouTube so yea he’s amazing. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

This is still going???

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

4 hours ago, Yav said:

I guess you’re a better judge of his ability than Romo who actually pointed it out during the game. Mahomes didn’t know what to and the play resulted in a sack. But hey you watched YouTube so yea he’s amazing. 

 

He's light years ahead of Josh Allen.  

[auburnbillsbacker]

Allen is going to be good but the Bills would make that trade.  

[HeHateMe]

18 hours ago, Warcodered said:

How could we even be certain they would of taken Mahomes if they took a QB that year? Why because he lit the NFL up a year later? Because the Chiefs traded to take him at the Bills spot? Deshaun Watson was still available and no one could really predict Mahomes would set NFL records in his second season.

 

Even Pegula himself wanted Mahomes..  along with a lot of people on this very board and myself..  He had that IT factor that jumped out at you if you watched him play.  And obviously Andy Reid liked him so much to trade up to get him.

 

Unless Allen goes into the Hall of Fame, this is going to get brought up forever.

Edited January 24, 2019 by HeHateMe

[Alphadawg7]

On 1/10/2019 at 6:05 PM, LSHMEAB said:

Does that explain why he DOUBLED Alex Smith's TD production with those very same weapons? Didn't think so.

 

Mahomes is great.  

 

However, Bills would not make this trade IMO and this article is about what the Bills would do, not fans.  Some fans aren’t not sold on Allens future, and that’s fair, but I’m pretty confident that both McD and Beane are fully on board the Allen train.  And White is already a top DB and Edmunds really grew in second half the season and looks to have Pro Bowl potentially in his future.  

 

Just like KC won’t make that trade, neither will the Bills.  Bills love Allen, White, and Edmunds.

 

Mahomes threw 50 TDs and is still sitting at home like the Bills to watch the SB.  If Beane and McD are confident they have a franchise QB in Allen, you don’t trade him and two potential Pro Bowl defenders for anyone.  Ask Brees how it was for all those years throwing for all those yards and not making playoffs or even having a winning record because the D was weak.  KC defense failed them too or they would be in the SB.  Rodgers is at home every year along with Rivers, Ryan, etc because the defense has mostly been an Achilles heal on their teams over the years.  

 

But I get why some people here would do it, especially if not sold on Allen.  I just believe that McD and Beane are both of the same opinion that they found their QB and that Josh will be a special QB as well.  So trading him and giving up two of the bright young defenders to come out of last 2 drafts doesn’t seem like something they would do IMO.  

Edited January 24, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[cba fan]

4 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

Allen is going to be good but the Bills would make that trade.  

If you make the trade the article suggests: T White, Z Jones, Edmunds, for Mahomes.

 

You will still have Allen.

 

What would you do with Allen?

Edited January 24, 2019 by cba fan

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Why is this thread still going?  Mahomes plays for KC and Allen plays for Buffalo.  NOTHING is going to change that.  rinse and repeat; rinse and repeat.  20 pages of regurgitation.  

Edited January 24, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Yav]

9 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

 

So he gets confused on one play and suddenly he doesn't know how to read defense's? LOL

 

He had 50 TD passes in his 1st year as a starting QB in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he knows how to read defense. 

1 play...um okay. 

 

Problem is early in the season NE used zero on him and he didn't know what to do. In the championship game when it mattered NE pulled the same coverage and once again he didn't know what to do. But yea, he's awesome, I mean you watched a YouTube video and all. 

[BigDingus]

Or....and this would make a lot more sense, we just kept the pick and saved a ton of draft capital from the 2018 draft used to trade up.

[Yav]

6 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

He's light years ahead of Josh Allen.  

Time will tell. 

Right now he's on a better team with WR that actually catch the ball (minus KB) and he's playing behind a better OL and he's throwing to one of the best TE in the game. 

 

I guess by those standards yes he's "light years" ahead of Allen. 

 

In actuality he's 1 year ahead of Allen and he's sitting at home watching the Super Bowl just like 30 other starting QBs.

Lets see what he does in years 3 and 4 after the salary cap catches up with KC, and this offseason it could be. They are going to be over the cap I believe this offseason and will need to make some serious decisions and lets all keep in mind they still need to address the defensive side of the ball.

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Mahomes is great.  

 

However, Bills would not make this trade IMO and this article is about what the Bills would do, not fans.  Some fans aren’t not sold on Allens future, and that’s fair, but I’m pretty confident that both McD and Beane are fully on board the Allen train.  And White is already a top DB and Edmunds really grew in second half the season and looks to have Pro Bowl potentially in his future.  

 

Just like KC won’t make that trade, neither will the Bills.  Bills love Allen, White, and Edmunds.

 

Mahomes threw 50 TDs and is still sitting at home like the Bills to watch the SB.  If Beane and McD are confident they have a franchise QB in Allen, you don’t trade him and two potential Pro Bowl defenders for anyone.  Ask Brees how it was for all those years throwing for all those yards and not making playoffs or even having a winning record because the D was weak.  KC defense failed them too or they would be in the SB.  Rodgers is at home every year along with Rivers, Ryan, etc because the defense has mostly been an Achilles heal on their teams over the years.  

 

But I get why some people here would do it, especially if not sold on Allen.  I just believe that McD and Beane are both of the same opinion that they found their QB and that Josh will be a special QB as well.  So trading him and giving up two of the bright young defenders to come out of last 2 drafts doesn’t seem like something they would do IMO.  

If I was completely sold on Allen, I probably don't make the deal. My reservations are such that I WOULD make the deal as Mahomes is a known commodity at this point. Allen has every chance in the world to prove the Bills(and you) right.

 

That doesn't mean Allen has to put up video game numbers, as he doesn't have that type of personnel and likely won't for the foreseeable future. All he really needs to do is put up a solid season and close the gap with Mahomes.

Edited January 24, 2019 by LSHMEAB