ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Josh Allen will not be great like Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes is a true superstar QB.

[oldmanfan]

First time I've watched the kid.  He obviously has talent but also made a lot of young QB errors.  Held onto the ball too long leading to sacks, airmailed some passes.   The talent is there though as shown in the second half.

[racketmaster]

Nobody is going to be able to legitimately argue Allen is a better quarterback than Mahomes right now but remember that this time last year the world knew very little about Patrick Mahomes. So Mahomes looks to be a star right now but who is to say that Allen can't also become an elite qb. Allen certainly has as much arm talent and athleticism at Mahomes does. They both seem to love playing the game and have a sense of joy while on the field. I don't follow Mahomes in terms of leadership and off the field drive but it seems Allen has those attributes as well. So why can't Allen become a league sensation next year? Allen got more experience than Mahomes did as a rookie and began to hit his stride late in the season. If the Bills surround Allen with some more weapons, Allen may very well also become a star. We just don't know yet as it is so early in both of their careers but maybe they both end up being great quarterbacks. 

 

All I know is Allen seems to be a great fit for Buffalo and Mahomes has been a great fit for KC. So maybe this is where they were both meant to be and I choose not to look back. If Allen played all year like he did the first 6 games then I might be more envious of KC, but the way Allen played down the stretch has got me extremely optimistic for the future of the Bills. 

[Jrb1979]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

First time I've watched the kid.  He obviously has talent but also made a lot of young QB errors.  Held onto the ball too long leading to sacks, airmailed some passes.   The talent is there though as shown in the second half.

I am guessing you only watch the Bills. KC was in the Sunday night game a few times this year. To not have seen him play is crazy. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, racketmaster said:

Nobody is going to be able to legitimately argue Allen is a better quarterback than Mahomes right now but remember that this time last year the world knew very little about Patrick Mahomes. So Mahomes looks to be a star right now but who is to say that Allen can't also become an elite qb. Allen certainly has as much arm talent and athleticism at Mahomes does. They both seem to love playing the game and have a sense of joy while on the field. I don't follow Mahomes in terms of leadership and off the field drive but it seems Allen has those attributes as well. So why can't Allen become a league sensation next year? Allen got more experience than Mahomes did as a rookie and began to hit his stride late in the season. If the Bills surround Allen with some more weapons, Allen may very well also become a star. We just don't know yet as it is so early in both of their careers but maybe they both end up being great quarterbacks. 

 

All I know is Allen seems to be a great fit for Buffalo and Mahomes has been a great fit for KC. So maybe this is where they were both meant to be and I choose not to look back. If Allen played all year like he did the first 6 games then I might be more envious of KC, but the way Allen played down the stretch has got me extremely optimistic for the future of the Bills. 

Good take. 

 

People keep forgetting that an honest appraisal of Allen after his rookie year would show that he was a better QB then what Mahmes showed after his rookie season.  Now the main reason for that was that Allen got the opportunity to play most of his rookie season and Mahomes did not but the conclusion remains the same:  Allen in his rookie year showed more then Mahomes did in his, particularly in Allen's last 6 games.

 

Now do I think Allen will match Mahomes in his 2nd year?  No I don't because I don't see any way that the Bills can replicate the offensive talent that Mahomes had at his disposal.  However I do believe that at the end of next year Allen will not be very far behind Mahomes in his QB play.  And I suspect that absent injury these two will be slugging it out over the next 10 years to see who is the best QB in the AFC (along with Sam Dranold).  

[oldmanfan]

56 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I am guessing you only watch the Bills. KC was in the Sunday night game a few times this year. To not have seen him play is crazy. 

 

57 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I am guessing you only watch the Bills. KC was in the Sunday night game a few times this year. To not have seen him play is crazy. 

True.  I generally just watch the Bills now; at my age it's hard to stay up for those Sunday night games!

[C.Biscuit97]

26 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Good take. 

 

People keep forgetting that an honest appraisal of Allen after his rookie year would show that he was a better QB then what Mahmes showed after his rookie season.  Now the main reason for that was that Allen got the opportunity to play most of his rookie season and Mahomes did not but the conclusion remains the same:  Allen in his rookie year showed more then Mahomes did in his, particularly in Allen's last 6 games.

 

Now do I think Allen will match Mahomes in his 2nd year?  No I don't because I don't see any way that the Bills can replicate the offensive talent that Mahomes had at his disposal.  However I do believe that at the end of next year Allen will not be very far behind Mahomes in his QB play.  And I suspect that absent injury these two will be slugging it out over the next 10 years to see who is the best QB in the AFC (along with Sam Dranold).  

In his one start as a rookie, Mahomes threw for more yards than any of Allen’s starts this year.

 

lets just hope Allen because he’s a legit franchise qb where we don’t have to keep making excuses for his 52% completion %.  But if any other fanbase saw this thread, they would think we are lunatics.  A guy in his second year, with the 2nd worst defense in the nfl, went toe to toe with the greatest ever in a championship game.  

[CincyBillsFan]

9 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

In his one start as a rookie, Mahomes threw for more yards than any of Allen’s starts this year.

 

lets just hope Allen because he’s a legit franchise qb where we don’t have to keep making excuses for his 52% completion %.  But if any other fanbase saw this thread, they would think we are lunatics.  A guy in his second year, with the 2nd worst defense in the nfl, went toe to toe with the greatest ever in a championship game.  

A bit selective in the stats there C.Biscuit.  Let's look at Mahomes full stats for that 2017 game:

 

22 - 34 - 284 yards - 0 TDs - 1 INT

7 carries for 10 yards, no TD's

 

Not bad but nothing to write home about either, particularly given the talent around Mahomes in that last game in 2017.  I would argue that Allen had at least 4 games with TOTAL stats equal to or better then that. 

 

I agree that other fan bases would look at this thread and all the other Mahomes threads on a Buffalo Bills message board and think we're lunatics but not for the reason you think.  They would think it's nuts that so many Bills fans obsess over Mahomes.  They would wonder why 2 years after the 2017 draft we are still crying about not taking Mahomes or even weirder fantasizing about what might have been if Mahones was wearing a Bills uniform.

 

And I say again that if I had a choice between exchanging Allen for Mahomes OR keeping Allen and getting Hill & Kelce I would keep Allen & take Kelce/Hill in a heartbeat. 

[LSHMEAB]

25 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

 

I agree that other fan bases would look at this thread and all the other Mahomes threads on a Buffalo Bills message board and think we're lunatics but not for the reason you think.  They would think it's nuts that so many Bills fans obsess over Mahomes.  They would wonder why 2 years after the 2017 draft we are still crying about not taking Mahomes or even weirder fantasizing about what might have been if Mahones was wearing a Bills uniform.

 

Eh, I think it'd be about 90% crazy for comparing Allen to Mahomes and 10% move on from the 2017 draft. Allen simply hasn't proven it yet, so other fanbases would view it as big time homerism. Doesn't mean the homers can't be right.

 

  20 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Zero points in the entire first half

 

You either make plays or you don't. He didn't until it was already too late 

 

We've seen this movie before

I can't wait to watch the movie where our second year QB puts up 31 in the AFC Championship game. Now that would be awesome both because it would mean the Bills had regained relevance for the first time in 25 years AND people wouldn't pretend like the Chiefs quarterback wasn't exceptional. I would love for Mahomes to become the "yeah, that would be cool" but Allen lead us to the playoffs so no biggie guy. As a matter of fact, I would love for this board to only mention his name in passing. You know what'll make that happen? Josh Allen having a good/great second season.

Edited January 22, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[CodeMonkey]

On 1/10/2019 at 11:17 AM, Southern Bills Fan said:

If the Bills had evaluated Mahomes and thought he could end up looking anything like the guy who has ripped apart the NFL this season, they obviously would have taken him with their first-round pick. Instead, they sent the 10th selection to the Chiefs for the 27th and 91st selections, along with Kansas City's 2018 first-round pick, which ended up as the 22nd pick. The Bills drafted star cornerback Tre'Davious White with Kansas City's 2017 first-rounder, and then used the other two picks in trades that eventually netted them Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds. Sean McDermott undoubtedly loves his two defensive building blocks, and the Bills believe that Josh Allen, their other first-rounder in 2018, can turn into a viable starter, but they would undoubtedly trade all three for Mahomes in a heartbeat.

 

 

I don't think that I would. Thoughts? BTW the article crushes the Bills over Gilmore as well.

If the Bills were given a do-over, knowing what they know now,  I would expect them to take Mahomes.

[row_33]

I would give up almost anything to obtain Mahomes.

 

but that is all over with now, only the future to look forward to with a lot of potential in Allen.

 

[MDH]

On 1/21/2019 at 8:26 PM, CincyBillsFan said:

They would think it's nuts that so many Bills fans obsess over Mahomes.   

 

They would think that until someone reminded them that the Bills traded out of the spot where KC selected Mahomes and then they'd say, "oh, right. Ouch."

 

I know, because I've had this exact conversation with other fans on countless occasions.

 

Any fanbase that has been looking for a QB for 20+ years and traded out of the very spot, with the very team that selected the single greatest 1st year starter in the history of the league would be asking "what if?" just like Bills' fans are. Only the fans who consistently berate other fans for being "negative" despite 20 years of futility think it strange that Bills fans are upset the Bills didn't take him (or Watson for that matter.)

 

The only thing that will make Bills fans forget about Mahomes is if Allen turns out to be as (or almost as) productive as Mahomes. If he does, the Bills made out. If he doesn't, it was a big mistake.

 

6 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

If the Bills were given a do-over, knowing what they know now,  I would expect them to take Mahomes.

 

If there was a do over, knowing what we know now, Mahomes would be the #1 pick in the draft and the Bills would have no shot at taking him. I don't blame the Bills for not knowing just how good he'd be, but for not knowing he was very much worth the #10 pick in the draft when they were desperate for a QB.

[CincyBillsFan]

12 hours ago, MDH said:

 

They would think that until someone reminded them that the Bills traded out of the spot where KC selected Mahomes and then they'd say, "oh, right. Ouch."

 

I know, because I've had this exact conversation with other fans on countless occasions.

 

Any fanbase that has been looking for a QB for 20+ years and traded out of the very spot, with the very team that selected the single greatest 1st year starter in the history of the league would be asking "what if?" just like Bills' fans are. Only the fans who consistently berate other fans for being "negative" despite 20 years of futility think it strange that Bills fans are upset the Bills didn't take him (or Watson for that matter.)

 

The only thing that will make Bills fans forget about Mahomes is if Allen turns out to be as (or almost as) productive as Mahomes. If he does, the Bills made out. If he doesn't, it was a big mistake.

 

If there was a do over, knowing what we know now, Mahomes would be the #1 pick in the draft and the Bills would have no shot at taking him. I don't blame the Bills for not knowing just how good he'd be, but for not knowing he was very much worth the #10 pick in the draft when they were desperate for a QB.

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a topic of discussion I'm saying that in my somewhat limited experience visiting other NFL message boards and living in another NFL city the obsession shown over the Bills not selecting Mahomes seems excessive.  I mean how many threads are we going to have on this topic?

 

And it's true that Mahomes would have been the #1 pick back in 2017 if they knew then what we know today BUT you can say that about EVERY draft.  I mean just off the top of my head I bet McCaffrey would have been picked ahead of Forenette if they knew in 2017 what we know today about both RB's.  And I bet the Bengals would have picked anyone BUT WR Jon Ross at #9 knowing what they do today. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by CincyBillsFan

[row_33]

15 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

 

 

Yep. Too bad McDumbass didn't just draft the kid when we had the chance.

 

That's the Bills

 

built the "dynasty" with very good but not elite Kelly, Thurman and Andre

 

better that way...

 

 

[CookieG]

29 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a topic of discussion I'm saying that in my somewhat limited experience visiting other NFL message boards and living in another NFL city the obsession shown over the Bills not selecting Mahomes seems excessive.  I mean how many threads are we going to have on this topic?

 

And it's true that Mahomes would have been the #1 pick back in 2017 if they knew then what we know today BUT you can say that about EVERY draft.  I mean just off the top of my head I bet McCaffrey would have been picked ahead of Forenette if they knew in 2017 what we know today about both RB's.  And I bet the Bengals would have picked anyone BUT WR Jon Ross at #9 knowing what they do today. 

Some things you don't get over easily. As a kid, I grew up in the just post AFL Championship years.  Every time the Raiders were on TV, which was often...my father, an older brother, a neighbor, an uncle, whoever happened to be in the room would say, "Damn...why did we trade Lamonica?" And then the discussion would begin. That was years after the trade and it didn't really stop until Stabler took over as the Raiders QB.

 

How long can it go?  The real reason the Bills could never trade up for Ben R didn't have much to do with Donahoe. It was Rooney. The staff was intending on drafting some OL until Rooney came in the room. He just said, "You know, I've never gotten over passing on Marino in the 1983 draft."  Ben R was going to be the pick from that point on and they weren't trading down so the Bills could take him.

 

That was 22 years after the fact.

 

So yeah, when you watch your team end up 30th in offense and watch the guy you passed over set the league on fire and end up within an inch of the SB...I'm not sure how you can't say....damn.

 

 

 

 

[HeHateMe]

Why did they even have Whaley involved as a lame duck, if his presence would prevent them from taking a Franchise QB when they were desperate for one?  Makes no sense.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, CookieG said:

Some things you don't get over easily. As a kid, I grew up in the just post AFL Championship years.  Every time the Raiders were on TV, which was often...my father, an older brother, a neighbor, an uncle, whoever happened to be in the room would say, "Damn...why did we trade Lamonica?" And then the discussion would begin. That was years after the trade and it didn't really stop until Stabler took over as the Raiders QB.

 

How long can it go?  The real reason the Bills could never trade up for Ben R didn't have much to do with Donahoe. It was Rooney. The staff was intending on drafting some OL until Rooney came in the room. He just said, "You know, I've never gotten over passing on Marino in the 1983 draft."  Ben R was going to be the pick from that point on and they weren't trading down so the Bills could take him.

 

That was 22 years after the fact.

 

So yeah, when you watch your team end up 30th in offense and watch the guy you passed over set the league on fire and end up within an inch of the SB...I'm not sure how you can't say....damn.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm also one of those that remember Lamonica which means I'm getting old.  But that was a TRADE.  The Bills had Lamonica on the team with a perfect opportunity to properly evaluate him.  In the case of Mahomes we're talking about the Bill's making a trade with KC for draft position.  Did the Bills even know that the Chiefs were taking Mahomes?   And during the 2017 draft period it was hardly unanimous that Mahomes was going to be a good NFL QB.  Even the Chiefs thought he needed work as they created a situation where Mahomes, unlike this years Rookie QB class, was not expected to start and had the luxury of sitting him behind Smith.

 

But your Lamonica point makes me wonder if the Bills even got that one wrong.  I mean his fame as a QB was that he was the mad bomber who threw the long ball very well.  And in Oakland he had Warren Wells & Fred Bilitnikoff to throw the ball to.  Had the Bills kept Lamonica are we all that sure he would have had near the success in buffalo that he had in Oakland? 

[racketmaster]

1 hour ago, HeHateMe said:

Why did they even have Whaley involved as a lame duck, if his presence would prevent them from taking a Franchise QB when they were desperate for one?  Makes no sense.

Because scouting staffs rarely turn over in the spring before the draft. If McDermott was set on wanting Beane to come in as the GM and could not get Carolina to let him go until after the draft, then it leaves the Bills in sort of a pickle. 

 

Drafting a qb in the first round is one of the most important decisions an organization can make. McDermott clearly did not trust Whaley to make that decision as he was immediately let go after the draft. 

- Maybe McDermott was not comfortable making the call on the qb as he was not out in the road scouting the quarterbacks all season. I like that he was able to set his ego aside and punt the major decision down the road a year when they had all their ducks in order. 

- McDermott was a brand new coach and involved in free agency and coming up with OTA practice schedules. He had spent a ton of time assembling a staff and getting familiar with the organization. To think McDermott would have had enough time to do a proper evaluation of the qb class would be foolish. If he trusted Whaley and the scouts, a qb would have been selected but that was not the case. 

- And let’s just say McDermott went ahead and pulled the trigger on a qb in 2017. What do you think the media would have said when Whaley was fired right after the draft. The media would have had a field day poking fun of McDermott for the way he handled the situation. 

- Additionally, I believe McDermott feels strongly about team culture. He clearly did not like the culture that was present and needed time to get the environment he envisioned. I strongly believe McDermott preferred bringing his rookie qb into a situation in which the culture was good. He would want an optimal situation for the rookie to grow and mature and having a bunch of players that were going to be shipped out might not be the best situation for a young player to grow. 

 

For all all of the above reasons and more, it just was not the right time to draft a quarterback in 2017. So McDermott did the next best thing and that was to trade down and collect more picks so that they had ammunition to go after a qb the following year when their organization was in order. 

[racketmaster]

And one more thing to think of is that McDermott is a defensive coach who was working with an offensive coordinator for the first time. A coordinator he hired because he was available at the time and had worked with Taylor previously. McDermott had to think that Dennison might only be a temporary solution until he found a better option. It's very likely that McDermott felt more comfortable with Daboll than Dennison. McDermott had more time to search for the type of coordinator he was looking for to lead the offensive side of the ball. If McDermott was somewhat unsure of Dennison and thought he might just be a band-aid, then why in the world would he trust Dennison with developing the prized rookie quarterback.

 

I understand that Mahomes has looked great and it would have been nice to have him in a Bills uniform for the next 15 years but the situation was just not right and the decision makers (mainly McDermott) do not have the luxury of knowing what we know now. I think it worked out for both teams in the end as I believe Allen will be a star in his own right and a great fit for Buffalo. It really is time to move on as I think we have a good one at he position for the first time in a long time.

Edited January 23, 2019 by racketmaster

[947]

Does anybody think Mahomes would've embraced Buffalo the way Allen has? If we had drafted him, and he still somehow developed here the way he did under Reid, we'd probably have been forced to trade him a year before his rookie deal was up because he'd want to test the market.