ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[reddogblitz]

Will KC also throw in Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce? Can we swap coaches too?

[One Buffalo]

21 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I think you're correct that the year to sit and learn is critical in the evaluation. I would have also stressed that the Pro Bowlers surrounding Mahomes, while Allen had a clown show of talent surrounding him, played an equally important part in the apparent gap in performance. 

 

I’m not making statements on how this turns out, just that it’s not yet fair to make a comparison.  

 

Mahomes having a year to sit and learn from Alex Smith and the coaching staff is a huge element of his current success.  I posted an article earlier in the thread saying that Mike Kafka basically adopted him last year.  He came in with many of Allen's tendencies that needed to be refined.  Of course he is an amazing talent, but he is in about as optimal of a situation as you can get for a young QB.  

[Formerly Allan in MD]

11 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

BTW, I did extensive research on both teams and came to the unique conclusion that the BIlls OLine, WRs and TEs are terrible in comparison with Kansas City.

 

You can read about all my research in Duh Magazine.

Since when are facts important these days? 

 

Also, KC's RBs were better much of the season as well.

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, Luka said:

So you're under the impression that somehow McDermott conducted an entire draft all by himself? It's amazing how clueless people are on this board.

McDermott used Whaley's draft board to make selections. It was Whaley's draft.

I pray you’re just clueless.  Because if by your logic, the Bills blindly used their outgoing GM’s draft board to make picks, this team is completely clueless.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I think we should hold off on this sort of analysis until Feb 4. I think the Chiefs have a pretty solid shot at winning the SB. I think they're going be extremely hard to beat at Arrowhead, and they WILL score if they get to the SB. The fewest points they had this season was 26, which is truly remarkable. Even the best offensive teams tend to have at least one dud during the season. 

 

It's not about us holding off on this sort of analysis.......as I predicted.......it's already happening..........my point was that these stories become large during the playoffs.

 

And heaven forbid Mahomes makes it to the SB.........the storylines about Buffalo's stupidity for trading that pick will be too easy and juicy for story-desperate writers to ignore.

 

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

let me ask it this way:

 

would you trade Kelly, Bruce AND Talley for Tom Brady?   Assume that all 4 have full careers ahead of them.

 

Brady, by himself, is not worth all three.  Would need to add Bellicheat to make that trade work.  For all we know, Brady without Bellicheat ends up as a backup for the Raiders.

 

And its only one good year - Mahomes may have peaked for all we know.

Edited January 11, 2019 by JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS
added information

[KD in CA]

11 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

As would any other franchise in the league too, right? Again, not a true comparison though, since they were drafted in different years. Let's see, the Bills picked Tony Hunter (who?), a TE from Notre Dame with the #12 pick in the 1983 draft, and drafted Jim Kelly #14. With the benefit of hindsight, maybe the Bills would've snapped Jimbo up at #12 first, to ensure that the Lions, or anyone trading picks with the Lions at #13, couldn't grab him?  Or should we also rehash Tom Brady's infamous slide down the draft boards, making every single team in the league look silly, including the Pats, until they took a flyer on him towards the end of the draft? Isn't that an even more egregious example than Mahomes? 

 

You should watch the  ‘Elway to Marino’ documentary.  The Bills picked Hunter first because they would have been happy with either Kelly or Marino at 14.

 

As spectacular as that 1st round was for the HOFers, it was equally spectacular for the failures.  The Lions drafted a huge bust IIRC.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by KD in CA

[from_dunkirk]

12 hours ago, dneveu said:

1 - We had a lameduck GM who we didn't want drafting our QB of the future

2 - Mahomes was a Junior and didn't attend the senior bowl.  

3 - McD drafted mostly players who attended the senior bowl with Milano the main exception (Tre White, Zay Jones, Dion Dawkins, Nate Peterman)

 

I don't think mahomes would really thrive here without Reid TBH - a seasoned QB coach and Offensive guy.  Not to mention our trainwreck of a line, and our utter lack of weapons.  Imagine that no look pass bouncing off of benjamins chest ?

 

And our defense would be pretty lousy without white and edmunds.

 

I'm not sure we'd be like... drafting another QB, but I'm not sure we're much better off than we are right now.

 

You mention in (1) that GM drafts the QB. Then in (3) that McD drafted players. I think McD could have drafted a QB early in the 2017 draft, but he had Tyrod and Cardale to evaluate. And being so new, he did not want to make a big move to draft a QB until he knew the team better and consulted with the GM. So he started small, then went big in 2018 for Allen. He might have drafted Mahomes if he was evaluated as a generational talent like Andrew Luck, but he wasn't.

Edited January 11, 2019 by from_dunkirk

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I mean, Mahomes is about to be named the MVP in his first season as a starter; I think the writer is probably correct that Buffalo would take that in retrospect.

 

 

Yeah, this. 

 

Knowing what we know, and with the bonds fans have built for White and Allen in particular but with Zay as well ... yeah, I think you would take that in retrospect.

 

Of course, part of the development of Mahomes is due to being with Reid in that situation. But if you could trade Mahomes as he is now for our three as they are now, you'd probably do it. I don't know if I'd say it's obvious. You'd think about it first, but at least for me, I'd do it.

 

4 hours ago, Luka said:

So you're under the impression that somehow McDermott conducted an entire draft all by himself? It's amazing how clueless people are on this board.

McDermott used Whaley's draft board to make selections. It was Whaley's draft.

 

 

The guy who was in charge was McDermott. The guy who actually puts the board together does it the way the guy in charge wants. It was McDermott's draft. 

 

Whaley doubtless had a lot of input, though, if that's what you're trying to say.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

let me ask it this way:

 

would you trade Kelly, Bruce AND Talley for Tom Brady?   Assume that all 4 have full careers ahead of them.

 

Brady, by himself, is not worth all three.  Would need to add Bellicheat to make that trade work.  For all we know, Brady without Bellicheat ends up as a backup for the Raiders.

 

And its only one good year - Mahomes may have peaked for all we know.

 

 

Not sure I understand your intent, but are you comparing Jim Kelly and Josh Allen in your analogy? Those two shouldn't be compared yet. Same with Bruce and ... who ... Bruce and Tre White also should not be compared, though Tre looks like a very fine young player.

 

I agree with you that you wouldn't trade Kelly, Bruce and Talley for Tom Brady but that's not a good analogy for the theoretical trade we're talking about.

 

That's two HOFers and Talley, who was maybe the heart of the team, or at least the defense. Allen, White and Zay (or Edmunds, White and Zay, if that's what was meant)  have a long long way to go before they can be compared to that group.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Peter]

I don't doubt that the McBeane would not make this trade.

 

I also do not doubt that Andy Reid and the Chiefs never would make this trade.

 

 

[Prickly Pete]

16 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

If the Bills had evaluated Mahomes and thought he could end up looking anything like the guy who has ripped apart the NFL this season, they obviously would have taken him with their first-round pick. Instead, they sent the 10th selection to the Chiefs for the 27th and 91st selections, along with Kansas City's 2018 first-round pick, which ended up as the 22nd pick. The Bills drafted star cornerback Tre'Davious White with Kansas City's 2017 first-rounder, and then used the other two picks in trades that eventually netted them Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds. Sean McDermott undoubtedly loves his two defensive building blocks, and the Bills believe that Josh Allen, their other first-rounder in 2018, can turn into a viable starter, but they would undoubtedly trade all three for Mahomes in a heartbeat.

 

 

I don't think that I would. Thoughts? BTW the article crushes the Bills over Gilmore as well.

 

Who cares?

All these media outlets have to fill their sites with articles everyday, and generate clicks...why even give this crap attention?

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, from_dunkirk said:

 

You mention in (1) that GM drafts the QB. Then in (3) that McD drafted players. I think McD could have drafted a QB early in the 2017 draft, but he had Tyrod and Cardale to evaluate. And being so new, he did not want to make a big move to draft a QB until he knew the team better and consulted with the GM. So he started small, then went big in 2018 for Allen. He might have drafted Mahomes if he was evaluated as a generational talent like Andrew Luck, but he wasn't.

 

My grassy knoll theory is Coach McDermott knew his buddy Brandon was going to be joining him soon.  So instead of him and Whaley picking the QB he would wait til next year and he and his bud could pick their guy together.

 

Hopefully they made the right decision.  Time will tell.

 

I would have preferred they just take Watson with the #10 pick.

[Zerovoltz]

Wow.....alot to talk about here.

 

15 hours ago, Mark80 said:

Mahomes had a fantastic year, no doubt.  The question is whether he will be able to maintain it when teams have a whole year of tape on him and their offense and then further down the road when he's making $30+M / year against the cap and they cannot surround him such a high level of talent that they have now.  Time will tell.

 

The day will come when it's time to pay Mahomes....he is going to get a ton of money...and he'll be one of those guys that takes up a bunch of cap room....and he'll be worth it because he does make everyone around him better.  I'd even speculate that QB salaries are about to flatten a little bit because teams are seeing that overpaying for mediocre QB's has been a mistake...so there is a little bit of dial back coming on these future contracts...plus...Mahomes isn't due for an extension before the 2020 labor agreement happens...who knows what that will look like.

 

15 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Isn't it funny how the writer tries to make the word "undoubtedly" sound like a quote, instead of him just...writing.

 

I hope the best for Allen.  Of course Mahommes is awesome, and he was one of the guys I wanted.

 

Additionally, though, looking at the last game of either young man's first season...I'll take Allen's 3 TD passes, and two rushing TDs over 284 yards and an interception.

 

 

 

Um....that 284 and 1 pick was in Mahomes very first start, wich was week 17 AT Denver...it was the only game he played in....and for some context..Mahomes played the first half, and a little of the 3rd quarter.  got KC out to a 2 TD lead, then sat on the bench while Tyler Bray came in and threw a pick 6 to Denver, then fumbled and Denver tied the game with 3 minutes left.  Mahomes came back in and led KC on the winning drive...part of that drive was a 3rd and 14 where Von Miller is all over him and he is running to his right full speed, and uncorks a strike accross his body as he is being tackled, for a 20 yard completion with 3 defenders all around....he put up 284, and the one pick in 3 quarters, in his first ever game, and led a 4th quarter game winning drive....context is important.

 

15 hours ago, billspro said:

We won’t really know until next year. There is a chance Allen and Mahommes are the top two QBs in the league.

 

I really can't add anything to this...it just sums up half the posts in the thread perfectly though.

 

15 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

True.  Been a while since we've seen threads about how dumb it was to trade Ragland, hasn't it?

 

While you debate this Allen/Mahomes thing...I can tell you with the utmost certainty....Buffalo won this trade for sure.  Ragland is SLOW.

 

12 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

So why did 9 other FO’s pass on this once in a generational talent? If college TD’s is the sole measuring stick, then NFL draft order picks should be easy! 

 

Great question.....I can explain it.  Cleveland decided Myles Garrett was a can't miss no brainer safe pick at 1.  San Francisco, probably thought they'd be in on Kirk Cousins the following offseason...and apparently Lynch wasn't into any of the QB available on top that..so traded to the Bears...who took Trubisky.....who they clearly thought was better, otherwise they would have taken Mahomes.  The Jags, took Leonard Fournette at 4...they had Bortles, who they still believed in and had OLD SCHOOL Tom Coughlin calling the shots....at 5, the Titans already had Mariotta...and they took Corey Davis WR...trying to get him more weapons.  At 6, the Jets took Jamaal Adams...you could argue that they needed a QB...but they had just spent a high 2 on Christian Hackenburg in the 2016 Draft...and wanted to see that through (clearly a mistake)  At 7 The Chargers, who already had Rivers...took WR Mike Williams...at 8 Carolina who already had Newton, took McCaffrey.  at 9, the Bengals...who already had Dalton...took WR John Ross (I am sure they'd like a doever as well)  ...so in many of these cases...you can say that they all "Passed" on a QB..but most of them were set at QB and were trying to add parts....KC had some good fortune that the top 9 were many teams not looking at QB.  And then Buffalo at 10...you've all covered it...lame duck GM....new defensive coach...wasn't going to tie his career to a QB picked by an outgoing GM...and wasn't taking one he hadn't evaluated with his new GM.  So, hence the trade.

 

8 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...of course if he "slips" from 50 TD passes to 40 in 2019, we'll be hearing the "slump" clickbait, right?...........

 

LOL....50 TD in season has been done THREE TIMES...Brady, Manning and Mahomes.....he is bound to slump....just like Manning and Brady "Slumped" after 50.  

 

 

 

Last item I will leave you with.....KC rushed for 115.8 Yards per game with Hunt.  KC has rushed for 116.4 without him.....really good back...but its CLEAR that the QB matters...not the RB....also....if you take away all the TD and Yards Mahomes threw to Hill, Kelce, and Watkins...Mahomes still had 25 TD and 2700 yards. To everyone else on the roster....think about that.....25 TD's would tie for 11th just on their own.

 

I like watching Allen, I hope he gets better with a year of seasoning and some upgrades and I think he will ...but wow....  

[row_33]

5 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

let me ask it this way:

 

would you trade Kelly, Bruce AND Talley for Tom Brady?   Assume that all 4 have full careers ahead of them.

 

Brady, by himself, is not worth all three.  Would need to add Bellicheat to make that trade work.  For all we know, Brady without Bellicheat ends up as a backup for the Raiders.

 

 

 

In this era of the NFL, it’s more plausible to consider making the trade for Brady than in 1988.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by row_33

[dollars 2 donuts]

3 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

 

 

Um....that 284 and 1 pick was in Mahomes very first start, wich was week 17 AT Denver...it was the only game he played in....and for some context..Mahomes played the first half, and a little of the 3rd quarter.  got KC out to a 2 TD lead, then sat on the bench while Tyler Bray came in and threw a pick 6 to Denver, then fumbled and Denver tied the game with 3 minutes left.  Mahomes came back in and led KC on the winning drive...part of that drive was a 3rd and 14 where Von Miller is all over him and he is running to his right full speed, and uncorks a strike accross his body as he is being tackled, for a 20 yard completion with 3 defenders all around....he put up 284, and the one pick in 3 quarters, in his first ever game, and led a 4th quarter game winning drive....context is important.

 

 

 

Agree and great post, along with the other points you made to other posters comments.

 

However, the talent level between the two teams offenses isn’t really comparable, and it was the las,game of the first season for both.

 

You’ll know from my other posts that I never say Allen is better than Mahommes.  mahommes is unbelievable and no matter how optimistic I might be he isn’t doing in season two what mahommes did in his second year.

 

my thing is this isn’t even about Allen vs Mahommes, but about a writer taking a shot at Buffalo specifically, when other teams in the league, qb needy, could have picked him earlier without giving up anything.

 

edit: and Mahommes was the guy I wanted (or Watson) in 2017. ?

Edited January 11, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[Bill from NYC]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

The guy who was in charge was McDermott. The guy who actually puts the board together does it the way the guy in charge wants. It was McDermott's draft. 

 

Whaley doubtless had a lot of input, though, if that's what you're trying to say.

I am not sure why so many folks don't understand the above. Certainly Whaley had input. Did he have authority over McDermott?

No way.

[Cripple Creek]

9 hours ago, Luka said:

So you're under the impression that somehow McDermott conducted an entire draft all by himself? It's amazing how clueless people are on this board.

McDermott used Whaley's draft board to make selections. It was Whaley's draft.

Just curious...why do you suppose a HC would use the draft board of a GM who he wanted gone and knew it was only a matter of days before it happened?  Why would a HC trust anything from the lame duck?

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

11 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

As an aside I hope the Bills hit the ground running in free agency so we have something real to talk about.   I mean we haven't even got to the divisional playoff games yet and we're going stir crazy arguing about imaginary scenarios where KC trades Mahomes to us or what if we had drafted Mahomes in 2017! 

 

At this rate by February we'll be debating about what would have happened had the Bills taken Tom Brady in the 5th round and hired Belichick after he was fired by Cleveland! 

 

So it’s too early and also too late to talk about? Let me know when the exact sweep spot is. You said after next season, but won’t that be wayyy too late ?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

10 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

You should watch the  ‘Elway to Marino’ documentary.  The Bills picked Hunter first because they would have been happy with either Kelly or Marino at 14.

 

As spectacular as that 1st round was for the HOFers, it was equally spectacular for the failures.  The Lions drafted a huge bust IIRC.

 

Will definitely do that, thanks for the tip!