ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[NoSaint]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:22 AM, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Well, considering that Mahomes and Allen weren't even in the same draft and the Bills could not have come even close to completing their pre-draft evaluation work on Allen, it's not an either Mahomes or Allen question straight up, right? The premise/byline of the article becomes somewhat misleading then, no? And what is the point of bashing the Bills on this one when how many other franchises similarly passed on Mahomes before KC? 

 

Get used to it. We are the team that traded out of the pick and then used that compensation to get a different qb 

 

we we will be the team tied to passing on him for better or worse. 

[LSHMEAB]

42 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

Andy Reid's offense is always helped quarterbacks put up numbers. Donovan McNabb, Nick foles,  Jeff Garcia,  McMahon,  Alex Smith,  and now Patrick mahomes. What if Josh Allen ran Andy Reid's offense? Yes Patrick mahomes is talented but how much of it is because the offensive system. 

As has been stated here several times, Mahomes put up 20 more touchdowns than ANY QB has in Andy Reid's 20 years as a HC.

 

Following up on that, do you think we need to replace Daboll or do you have confidence he'll right the ship? I just want to see the offense and defense work. Hope and excuses only last so long absent results.

[Bangarang]

I would make this deal without a moment of hesitation.

 

We’re basically hoping Allen can be what Mahes already is.

[BillyWhiteShows]

22 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

Yeah actually he was.

 

No you are wrong, and this confirms it.  He was hired on May 9, 2017.  The NFL Draft was between April 27-29.  Whaley was fired on April 30.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/05/09/buffalo-bills-hire-brandon-beane-as-general-manager/101486776/

 

I’ll wait for my apology.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Rufridr101 said:

Andy Reid's offense is always helped quarterbacks put up numbers. Donovan McNabb, Nick foles,  Jeff Garcia,  McMahon,  Alex Smith,  and now Patrick mahomes. What if Josh Allen ran Andy Reid's offense? Yes Patrick mahomes is talented but how much of it is because the offensive system. 

 

You are right...I’ll got further to say it’s not just  Andy Reid.  It’s also:

 

- a great OL

- one of the NFL’ s Top running games (before Hunt got released)

- perhaps the best set of starting skill players

- Great minds like Matt Nagy and Alex Smith (2017)

 

Not to take anything away from Mahomes, but his success IMO was the perfect combo of time, talent, and team. 

[Nihilarian]

Would you trust Doug Whaley to properly evaluate Patrick Mahomes after the EJ fiasco... I know I wouldn't! Don't forget that Beane wasn't there yet. I think McD did the right thing with Tre White in that he saw the talent and went and got it.

 

Besides, previous to Mahomes those "air raid' QBs have failed in the NFL and let's not forget that he also got to sit for a season and learn under Andy Reid. Not to mention he also learned the NFL ropes on how to be an NFL QB by watching Alex Smith for a season. How many other rookie QBs would fail under those circumstances?Then look at the talent around him on offense, a star TE, a star RB, a star WR and a very good O line. 

 

What a great draft for McD in his first year with Tre White, Zay Jones, Dion Dawkins, Matt Milano who was a 5th round pick. If Josh Allen develops properly Bills fans should be very happy he is their QB. Now McD just needs to surround Allen with Talent like Mahomes has. Allen was supposed to sit this year and learn as he was a project QB.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Would you trust Doug Whaley to properly evaluate Patrick Mahomes after the EJ fiasco... I know I wouldn't! Don't forget that Beane wasn't there yet. I think McD did the right thing with Tre White in that he saw the talent and went and got it.

 

Besides, previous to Mahomes those "air raid' QBs have failed in the NFL and let's not forget that he also got to sit for a season and learn under Andy Reid. Not to mention he also learned the NFL ropes on how to be an NFL QB by watching Alex Smith for a season. How many other rookie QBs would fail under those circumstances?Then look at the talent around him on offense, a star TE, a star RB, a star WR and a very good O line. 

 

What a great draft for McD in his first year with Tre White, Zay Jones, Dion Dawkins, Matt Milano who was a 5th round pick. If Josh Allen develops properly Bills fans should be very happy he is their QB. Now McD just needs to surround Allen with Talent like Mahomes has. Allen was supposed to sit this year and learn as he was a project QB.

EJ had a better qb rating as rookie than Allen. Just sayin’ ??

1 hour ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

No you are wrong, and this confirms it.  He was hired on May 9, 2017.  The NFL Draft was between April 27-29.  Whaley was fired on April 30.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/05/09/buffalo-bills-hire-brandon-beane-as-general-manager/101486776/

 

I’ll wait for my apology.  

 

 

 

You are right...I’ll got further to say it’s not just  Andy Reid.  It’s also:

 

- a great OL

- one of the NFL’ s Top running games (before Hunt got released)

- perhaps the best set of starting skill players

- Great minds like Matt Nagy and Alex Smith (2017)

 

Not to take anything away from Mahomes, but his success IMO was the perfect combo of time, talent, and team. 

Or Mahomes made all those things better because he is a generational talent.  

 

He is the second player in nfl history to ever do this. In his second year!  

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

I would make this deal without a moment of hesitation.

 

We’re basically hoping Allen can be what Mahes already is.

Pffft, Who would have developed Mahomes in Buffalo? 

 

So he sits 2017 and learns from Dennison who was fired?? Then starts this year with no veteran QB to learn from, a bad O line, bad receiver corps, no run game. I highly doubt any QB would have had great success in the 2018 Buffalo Bills offense.

[Tcali]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Pffft, Who would have developed Mahomes in Buffalo? 

 

So he sits 2017 and learns from Dennison who was fired?? Then starts this year with no veteran QB to learn from, a bad O line, bad receiver corps, no run game. I highly doubt any QB would have had great success in the 2018 Buffalo Bills offense.

valid points

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Nihilarian said:

Pffft, Who would have developed Mahomes in Buffalo? 

 

So he sits 2017 and learns from Dennison who was fired?? Then starts this year with no veteran QB to learn from, a bad O line, bad receiver corps, no run game. I highly doubt any QB would have had great success in the 2018 Buffalo Bills offense.

I don’t get this.  Which is it:  Andy Reid, one of the greatest offensive of his generation, traded up when he had a playoff team to select a QB who won’t play for a year because he recognized the special talent of Mahomes.  Does that speak to how special of a guy PM is?

 

or 

 

shoudl we feel better about the Bills picking Allen when they clearly had no plan in place?  

 

And Barkley/ Anderson both averaged more passing yards than Allen.  I don’t think it’s crazy to think Rodgers or Brees would have improved our team.

[Nihilarian]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

EJ had a better qb rating as rookie than Allen. Just sayin’ ??

 

EJ had a better team around him along with a better offense. Look at the receivers EJ had, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Stevie Johnson, Scott Chandler to throw to. Not to mention that the Bills had the #2 rushing game in the league in 2013. Eric Wood at center to call protections and Glenn at LT. 

 

EJ went 4-6, JA went 5-6!  

[Nihilarian]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t get this.  Which is it:  Andy Reid, one of the greatest offensive of his generation, traded up when he had a playoff team to select a QB who won’t play for a year because he recognized the special talent of Mahomes.  Does that speak to how special of a guy PM is?

 

or 

 

shoudl we feel better about the Bills picking Allen when they clearly had no plan in place?  

 

And Barkley/ Anderson both averaged more passing yards than Allen.  I don’t think it’s crazy to think Rodgers or Brees would have improved our team.

Apparently you missed the Falcons 2013 season when Matt Ryan played all 16 games and they went 4-12... Julio Jones for only 5 games and he still had Tony Gonzalez for all season. This was after going 13-3 the previous season.  Same HC, same OC. 

 

 

Looks to me like nobody in the Buffalo Bills scouting staff saw the talent in Mahomes (Whaley's and his staff that were all fired) Nor could have anyone in Buffalo developed Mahomes like Reid could, nor does Buffalo have anywhere near the talent on offense that the Chiefs have.

 

I'm very happy that the 2018 Buffalo Bills drafted Josh Allen!!!

 

Besides, I'm not interested in day dreaming about what ifs. No way Mahomes looks anywhere near as good in Buffalo this year. He might have ended up on IR attempting to throw for almost 5000 yards behind that craptastic Buffalo O line. 

[CookieG]

14 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Would you trust Doug Whaley to properly evaluate Patrick Mahomes after the EJ fiasco... I know I wouldn't! Don't forget that Beane wasn't there yet. I think McD did the right thing with Tre White in that he saw the talent and went and got it.

 

 

I do like when people try to blame the pick on Whaley.

 

-He was hired On January 11, more than 3 months before the draft.

-He sought out the position on a team that was obviously looking for an upgrade at QB.

-He knew, or should have known, that this is a franchise that was missing a QB for 2 decades.

-He had other options beside Whaley to scout QB's in that 3 1/2 month period. Considering it was a priority, its something he should have done.

-He could have hired other scouts to perform evaluations, from either inside or outside the organization. For example, when Polian was hired as Indy's GM in late 1997, he had in house scouts go through a thorough evaluation of Manning and Leaf. In addition, he hired Bill Walsh to do an outside evaluation.

-If this is a belief that he didn't want to step on toes in the power structure...pfft. He was already doing that. There was an article before the draft that he had basically taken it over, including adding people to the board and removing others. The post draft firing of Whaley and the scouting department left no doubt.

-At the very least, his ears should have perked up when he discovered his former boss, Andy Reid, wanted him bad. He should have known, like even casual fans do..that Reid knows QB's far more than him.

 

Its on him.

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, Rufridr101 said:

Andy Reid's offense is always helped quarterbacks put up numbers. Donovan McNabb, Nick foles,  Jeff Garcia,  McMahon,  Alex Smith,  and now Patrick mahomes. What if Josh Allen ran Andy Reid's offense? Yes Patrick mahomes is talented but how much of it is because the offensive system. 

Again, the system doesn’t make the plays. Mahomes has shown more than enough of his athletic ability and uncanny habit of making crazy plays to convince skeptics at this point. Alex Smith couldn’t perform like him in that system with those players. He did what he was capable of, and Andy Reid is good at getting guys to perform to their capabilities. Josh Allen doesn’t make as many plays with his arm, and while he would put up better numbers with KCs personnel than BUF ‘s it wouldn’t be the 50 TD variety. Only a few QBs have done that in NFL history. How would the Chiefs offense look if you put Peterman in there ? How about the Pats ? The system can help, but the talent will determine the level of success. 

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Get used to it. We are the team that traded out of the pick and then used that compensation to get a different qb 

 

we we will be the team tied to passing on him for better or worse. 

I don’t think the compensation for the trade was used to select Allen. 

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Again, the system doesn’t make the plays. Mahomes has shown more than enough of his athletic ability and uncanny habit of making crazy plays to convince skeptics at this point. Alex Smith couldn’t perform like him in that system with those players. He did what he was capable of, and Andy Reid is good at getting guys to perform to their capabilities. Josh Allen doesn’t make as many plays with his arm, and while he would put up better numbers with KCs personnel than BUF ‘s it wouldn’t be the 50 TD variety. Only a few QBs have done that in NFL history. How would the Chiefs offense look if you put Peterman in there ? How about the Pats ? The system can help, but the talent will determine the level of success. 

I don’t think the compensation for the trade was used to select Allen. 

Touché.

 

Regardless of how the picks match up though, it’s how it’ll be remembered. Going and getting our qb was #1 in the draft and they made the move very much with that in mind

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

Touché.

 

Regardless of how the picks match up though, it’s how it’ll be remembered. Going and getting our qb was #1 in the draft and they made the move very much with that in mind

I disagree. The organization was in a state of flux/ clusterf**k due to missteps of ownership, so they punted on a QB when the perfect  opportunity was right in front of them. I don’t think they had much else in mind other than getting compensation ( too little even) and kicking the can down the road. They might have thought they could trade for a QB, but I don’t believe it was much more carefully or elaborately planned/  considered than that. 

[Real McClappy]

Let's just all pray Josh Allen is the one for a long time. If Allen does flop, all Bills fans will be looking back at Watson and Mahomes for a very long time.  

 

 

[Nihilarian]

Jeez guys if you want to wring your hands and cry over a player this team didn't draft we could all go back 20 years or more and do it each and every year. Revisionist whining. 

 

The Bills passed on Derek Carr, Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson...Tom Brady. 

 

Is the kid an amazing talent, YES! I think he also would have looked not so great in Buffalo with a vastly inferior surrounding cast. Especially not having Andy Reid to mentor him. Have other college "air raid" players looked good in college, yes! Have any of them found success besides Mahomes in the NFL, NO! 

 

The Browns, The Bears, The Jags, The Titans, The Jets, the Chargers, The Panthers, The Bengals all passed on the kid and if any of them had any idea he would be this good. Every single one of them would have drafted him. Some scouting reports had Mahomes as a second round prospect. 

 

But then, who would have developed him and what surrounding cast would he have on each of those teams? No other team had a surround cast like the Chiefs. One of the very best TEs in the game with Travis Kelce, a TE with 103 receptions, 1336 yards. a top speed WR Tyreek Hill 1479 yards, they had a great RB in Kareem Hunt.

 

 

I like Josh Allen! I hope this FO gets him some of the talent like the Chiefs have on offense, line, WRs, TE. 

[RocCityRoller]

On 1/10/2019 at 4:17 PM, Shaw66 said:

I wouldn't trade the three for Mahomes.   No way.  

 

I believe five years from now, probably less, Allen will be the better QB, so I don't think I'd trade even up.   

 

Shaw, the article says trading White, Edmunds and Zay Jones for Mahomes. Allen becomes a moot point then.

 

And yes, I would do that every day.

[Bangarang]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Pffft, Who would have developed Mahomes in Buffalo? 

 

So he sits 2017 and learns from Dennison who was fired?? Then starts this year with no veteran QB to learn from, a bad O line, bad receiver corps, no run game. I highly doubt any QB would have had great success in the 2018 Buffalo Bills offense.

 

The point being is that Mahomes has sown he has enough talent to put up monster numbers. We are hoping to see that from Allen. I would take production over potential.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

I love Allen,  but you would have to be a complete idiot not to make this trade from a Bills perspective.