The Frankish Reich Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 9 hours ago, eball said: Not quite sure why you're beating this drum, but if you can't see the difference in the culture McD has established in Buffalo and what Gase "established" in Miami I just can't help ya, kid. McD kept the Bills competitive with perhaps the least talented roster in the league. Gase lost his locker room, his team imploded, and he got himself canned. Still having trouble seeing who is the better leader? But didn't McDermott "lose his locker room" when he went to Peterman (twice!) only to recover it? My point here is not which coach is objectively the better "leader of men." Rather, it's that we simply don't know anything about these things that would give us any predictive value. Look at the Dolphins' situation: Tony Sparano: "leader of men." They outperformed under him, until they didn't. Remember interim coach Dan Campbell? He was a classic "leader of men." When he took over mid-season, the impact of the change was obvious. They played harder and better. Until they didn't. So my point it this: we don't know a damn thing about "leaders of men" vs. "not being head coach material." We creative a narrative after the fact: if a coach succeeds over a significant period of time, well, then, he must be a good leader. If not, but he otherwise succeeded as a coordinator, he must not be a "leader of men." It has next to no predictive value. Frank Reich has made the divisional round; just a year ago he was a "good coordinator, probably not head coach material." Mike McCarthy - two years ago - was a good coach and a strong leader; now he's out of a job. So my objection is to fans labeling things based on little or no objective information. You might as well just say, "Gase had a meh record with a league-average talented team; hence he is not a leader." But then what about, say, Chuck Pagano? Just a few years ago he was an inspirational leader; now nobody wants him. It's fan talk. It's not reality. 1 1
eball Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 @The Frankish Reich you are clearly passionate about this topic for some reason, but at least for me judging leadership is about more than just the W-L record. It is patently clear that McD is a strong leader; it’s quite murky with respect to Gase.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 9 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: But didn't McDermott "lose his locker room" when he went to Peterman (twice!) only to recover it? My point here is not which coach is objectively the better "leader of men." Rather, it's that we simply don't know anything about these things that would give us any predictive value. Look at the Dolphins' situation: Tony Sparano: "leader of men." They outperformed under him, until they didn't. Remember interim coach Dan Campbell? He was a classic "leader of men." When he took over mid-season, the impact of the change was obvious. They played harder and better. Until they didn't. So my point it this: we don't know a damn thing about "leaders of men" vs. "not being head coach material." We creative a narrative after the fact: if a coach succeeds over a significant period of time, well, then, he must be a good leader. If not, but he otherwise succeeded as a coordinator, he must not be a "leader of men." It has next to no predictive value. Frank Reich has made the divisional round; just a year ago he was a "good coordinator, probably not head coach material." Mike McCarthy - two years ago - was a good coach and a strong leader; now he's out of a job. So my objection is to fans labeling things based on little or no objective information. You might as well just say, "Gase had a meh record with a league-average talented team; hence he is not a leader." But then what about, say, Chuck Pagano? Just a few years ago he was an inspirational leader; now nobody wants him. It's fan talk. It's not reality. I agree that often fans have very little to base those assumptions on. However with Gase..... wow.... watch the body language, listen to the press conferences. There is a mountain of evidence when it comes to Gase that suggests he is ill suited to being a leader of men. He is a sulker. You can't sulk and lead. I actually said this the year they made their run and reached the playoffs too. So this isn't fitting a narrative to results.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 18 hours ago, LABillzFan said: I never understand why calling someone a homer is perceived as a bad thing. What the hell is wrong with being a homer? The difference between a homer and other fans is that a homer KNOWS they can do NOTHING to change the trajectory of their team's successes. Not one damn thing. So instead of pretending we're smarter than NFL execs and instead of pretending our thoughts matter, we just enjoy the ride...win or lose? The only other option is to not follow the team, and that's not an option for me. So I willingly choose to watch and cheer and be a homer. I'm LABillzFan and I'm a homer. Wouldn't you like to be a homer too? I am incapable of being a homer. My brain doesn't really work that way. I can't just buckle up and enjoy the ride. I am generally and optimist (I think) but I have an in built need to try and work things out so my brain always overrides. My actual predictions of the Bills final record at the start of seasons have been pretty spot on for the past decade. The only year I was more than a game out was the first Rex Ryan year when I predicted 10-6 and we went 8-8. Other than that.... within a game every year. I feel like I normally have a pretty good handle on where the team is at.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I agree that often fans have very little to base those assumptions on. However with Gase..... wow.... watch the body language, listen to the press conferences. There is a mountain of evidence when it comes to Gase that suggests he is ill suited to being a leader of men. He is a sulker. You can't sulk and lead. I actually said this the year they made their run and reached the playoffs too. So this isn't fitting a narrative to results. People change though... it's not immutable. Maybe he'll grow up a bit.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: People change though... it's not immutable. Maybe he'll grow up a bit. Hmm. In my experience that sort of thing doesn't tend to change. I played soccer for a sulker. Tactically and technically he was streets ahead of most of the other semi-pro coaches I played for. But you'd come in after a loss and he'd hardly say a word and sulk in the corner of the locker room and it is extremely demotivating. I think that is hard to change.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: Hmm. In my experience that sort of thing doesn't tend to change. I played soccer for a sulker. Tactically and technically he was streets ahead of most of the other semi-pro coaches I played for. But you'd come in after a loss and he'd hardly say a word and sulk in the corner of the locker room and it is extremely demotivating. I think that is hard to change. Coughlin did it.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Coughlin did it. Was Coughlin a sulker? Or was he just a total hard ass who learned how to soften? I think it was the latter and I think that change is easier (though by no means easy) to make.
YoloinOhio Posted January 11, 2019 Author Posted January 11, 2019 Interesting considering Gase said he’s bringing him over as OC
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 22 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: This is genius! 2
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: This is genius! In many respects, giving new and appropriate meaning to the phrase ‘rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic’. 1
ganesh Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 On 1/10/2019 at 6:25 AM, MrEpsYtown said: I think he will get Darnold coached up. I think marriage of him and the New York media will be fun to watch. who will be his DC.
MrEpsYtown Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, ganesh said: who will be his DC. Vance Joseph was the early rumor, but it looks like the Cards and Browns are after him. Personally, I think they should try to hire Chuck Pagano.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Vance Joseph was the early rumor, but it looks like the Cards and Browns are after him. Personally, I think they should try to hire Chuck Pagano. Seen the Bears linked to Joseph too. They are looking for a 3-4 guy to replace Fangio. 1
wppete Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 I love this! Hilarious. The Jets are a joke hahaha... 1
The Frankish Reich Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 15 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: People change though... it's not immutable. Maybe he'll grow up a bit. You know who Gase reminds me of? Josh McDaniels. Josh will get his second chance too - could have had it last year if he'd wanted it.
Patriot Killa Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 14 hours ago, ganesh said: who will be his DC. Looks like Gregg Williams will be the Jets new DC. Ian Rapoport saying that it likely gets done tomorrow.
whatdrought Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 Just now, Patriot Killa said: Looks like Gregg Williams will be the Jets new DC. Ian Rapoport saying that it likely gets done tomorrow. Your thoughts, as a dirty Jets fan, on the Gase and Williams hiring?
row_33 Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said: Looks like Gregg Williams will be the Jets new DC. Ian Rapoport saying that it likely gets done tomorrow. Bounties galore
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