The Truth Hurts

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

are you really suggesting that bledsoe belongs in the HOF?  admittedly, i haven't done my homework to analyze the statistics and W-L records of the QBs currently enshrined, but i just don't ever recall watching bledsoe -- at any point in his career -- and thinking to myself, "this is one of the best players to ever play the game at his position."

288817[/snapback]

 

The answer to the specific questions of whether he will get into the HOF and whether he merits entry compared to other candidates from my perspective and areview of the various pro and anti-Bledsoe are:

 

Yes, he will probably get into the HOF, and

 

Yes, he will likely deserve that honor

 

 

First, I'm as stat happy as the next guy which anyone who is psychotic about the Bills and willing (and able) to waste their time on my too lengthy posts should be able to tell. However, my commitment to and over-interest in stats comes with the knowledge that they can indicate a lot of correct things, but prove little or nothing in terms of whats actually correct.

 

Stats are often indicative of the truth, but never are conclusive. They can simply be taken too selectively, taken more fully but twisted, or misinterpreted that they really can illustrate or help an argument but are a pretty blunt tool for actually proving a point.

 

I think this article illustrates this by beginning with Bledsoe selectively choosing a stat and devoting a lot of importance to it and then the author selecting other stats and devoting too much to them.

 

Overall if the question is whether Bledsoe should be treated like just another QB or is instead one of the best their ever was, neither exteme is true from my read. Bledsoe has an extraordinary arm, has led teams to an SB berth (a thing most QBs ratrely do) and in addition played a key role backing up Brady in a must win game in their SB run. The near 40K passing Bledsoe sites is an interesting indicator but for me is not the basis of why Bledsoe has performed and produced far better than the vast majpority of QBs in this league. He is not just another QB in the NFL despite the quite selective 120th statistical ranking the author sites.

 

On the other hand, the true stats sited by the author provide a good indication of why Bledsoe falls well short of being one of the best QBs there ever was and that there is even a degree of truth to the posts which says Bledsoe sucks. However, the fault in this line of thinking is that sucking at QB does not disqualify a player from getting into (certainly) and even meriting (possibly though if you suck alot of other things need to happen for you to merit entry from my perspective) entry into the HOF.

 

Bledsoe has had a good career that in my view will get him into the HOF and racked up a number of achievements which will likely merit him getting in though from my perspective as a fan he really sucks as a QB to have on your team.

 

1. The HOF is about FAME and all in all it is a popularity contest which rests on the subjective judgments of the HOF committee.

 

I think the key to whether Bledsoe gets voted in is going to be a question of who he is competing against for the honor. He will be competing against other players retired long enough to be up for when he is up for it. I think a critical factor will be the bias which folks have toward the QB position, giving it far more credit than it deserves for Ws and far more blame than it deserves for Ls.

 

Bledsoe is going to be aided the most by the QB position gaining unprecedented hnor due to the superlative QB draft class of 1983 coinciding with the prescence of late round draft choice Joe Montana (one of the best QBs there ever was) in the league. The class and others marketed themslves as the QB Club (overemphasing the import of the position) and I would not be surpirsed to see the best QB available selected for entry into the HOF every year even if the best QB available is not as good a player as folks at some less marketed position like OL, K, or whatever.

 

As he is putting distance between his eventual retirement and that of the truly great QBs like Elway and Kelly, i think he will be the best QB available in his election year and will get in (if i were him I would avoid qualifying for the ballot the same year as Brett Farve because he will lost the comparison to him).

 

If you think Bledsoe does not deserve to get in, then the better argument for you to explore is who Bledsoe is likely to face off against. I am certain that many retiring players at CB, RB, etc are better than him, butbased on my survey of when he is likely to hang 'em up and who will be up against him. I will be surprised if he does not make it. In fact, if he avoids Farve it might even happen on the 1st ballot.

 

2. The question of whether he deserves to get in is another thing. One can selectively view an present stats like 40K yards and make the case for him to get in and one can selectively present stats which illustrate him sucking and claim he should stay out.

 

Personally, i think Bledsoe was a QB I feared my team playing at several points earlier in his career (a rarity actually since generally I have felt Bill teams could beat anyone in the early 90s). However, for the last few years with NE he did not scare me at all to face him. As he played and particularly as his HCs failed to follow the Parcells and later Belicheck models of using him properly (maximizing what he did well and minimizing what he did poorly) he became eminently beatable.

 

Nevertheless, the article author is correct that W/L is what matters most, but as far as the specific of HOF entry its W/L in terms of getting to the Big Dance and winning it. While the compilation of the overall Bledsoe winning percentage is important and fine-tuning it by looking at his record against to 10 team is an even better indicator, the ultimate W/L measure is getting to the SB and being critical to a team which won it.

 

The 40K+ passing yards, the record number of attempts, the extraordinary arm strength are good on paper, but the game is not played on paper and the key is going to come back to getting a team to the SB and being part of a winner.

 

Bledsoe will likely get into the HOF because of competition with weak QBs in his group of eligible but not-in-yet candidates. He will merit also in my view because with Parcells minimizing one of the weakest parts of his game by emphasizing to him just throw the damn ball when he would go into his pat in practice. In the 40 or so SBs at the time he will be eligible there will be well fewer than 80 that even led a team to the Big Dance and the Bledsoe 40K number and longevity records will be in the context of his leading a team to the SB.

 

Further, in the 2001 season Bledsoe had his job taken by a better player as Brady came in when he was hurt and led the Pats to a successful SB season. Nevertheless, Bledsoe will get and deserve in my view for playing QB in the majroty of a must win game for NE and throwing the winning TD pass. Bledsoe was not a good enough player to be the NE #1 QB and Belicheck was correct to start Brady in the SB and to keep Brady as his starter the next season. However, the addition of being one of 80 QBs to lead his team to an SB berth and being one of less than 40 to play an essential role on a SB winning team (I am not arguing that he was good, merely that he played an essential role as the #2 QB on an SB winner) will likely be enough to merit Bledsoe's entry into the HOF.

 

There is addotonal stuff both good and bad to merit or demerit his entry.

 

Among the things that will help him with the voting committee (though I do not necessarily view this as of import are):

 

1. His FAME clearly helped the Bills on the business side of the game when the trade to Buffalo accompanied great interest from WNY partisans coming off a 3-13 season.

 

2. He generally has a rep as a teamer and a quaility guy with the graceful manner he showed when the better QB (Brady) took his job and he did not (as many egotistic players would do) try to parlay his being on the field when the Pats won in the championship game into getting his job back or fanning a QB controversy.

 

3. He got a Pro Bowl reserve spot for the Bills (and deserved it unless you want to suggest the QB who deserved it more that year) and really was The Comeback Player of the year after Brady proved to be a better QB and his prescence with the Bills coinicided with their improvement from 3-13 to 8-8.

 

In addition, there are real events that will hurt him with the committee vote:

 

1. His play was simply horrendous under Kevin Killdrive in 2003.

2. He failed to lead the Bills to a playoff berth last year though we had it in our hands and were a game away.

3. He was unceremoniously dumped by the Bills as he refused to take a paycut which would have made for the mentoring of Losman.

 

Even still, if Bledsoe hung 'em up today. I think he would be in the HOF (as he competed against other QBs likely to retire this year like Shane Matthews). As he is not retiring, his career is not over and how it plays out in Dallas will tell a lot. If his time in Dallas simply results in more results like 2003 when and the Bills ended up 6-10 it will hurt his case and maybe he won't get in despite selective use of glossy stats and his role in 2 SB berth teams.

 

If his Dallas career is like his 2004 Bills results it will not hurt him but also I doubt it will help as he needs to be with a team that makes the playoffs to add another redemption to his resume.

 

If however, he is the QB for a 'Boys team which makes the playoffs, even though they are incredibly unlikely to even smell the SB he likely will cement his rep as a Comeback Player and easily make the HOF.

 

Since the Boys are coming off a piss-poor 6-10 season, seemt to have am RB in Jones and Parcells wrote the book on getting production out of Bledsoe by using him as threat rather than depending on him to win games for you, I suspect that we will see yet another ressurection of Bledsoe's career. it may not be enough to make the playoffs but I think it will add to his FAME.

[Fezmid]

I'm not sure where you get your math from, but last season we lost twice to New England, once each to Pittsburgh and the NYJ.  Each of those teams had 10 or more wins.  That makes 4 losses.  We beat the Jets at home.  One win.  Record: 1-4.

 

Easy. 10 is not greater than 10.

 

You (and the article) were pointing at victories against teams with MORE than 10 wins. And again, I'm mainly pointing out that "journalists" nowadays seem to print whatever they want and don't really care about checking their facts first.

 

CW

[ajzepp]

The answer to the specific questions of whether he will get into the HOF and whether he merits entry compared to other candidates from my perspective and areview of the various pro and anti-Bledsoe are:

 

Yes, he will probably get into the HOF, and

 

Yes, he will likely deserve that honor

First, I'm as stat happy as the next guy which anyone who is psychotic about the Bills and willing (and able) to waste their time on my too lengthy posts should be able to tell. However, my commitment to and over-interest in stats comes with the knowledge that they can indicate a lot of correct things, but prove little or nothing in terms of whats actually correct.

 

Stats are often indicative of the truth, but never are conclusive. They can simply be taken too selectively, taken more fully but twisted, or misinterpreted that they really can illustrate or help an argument but are a pretty blunt tool for actually proving a point.

 

I think this article illustrates this by beginning with Bledsoe selectively choosing a stat and devoting a lot of importance to it and then the author selecting other stats and devoting too much to them.

 

Overall if the question is whether Bledsoe should be treated like just another QB or is instead one of the best their ever was, neither exteme is true from my read.  Bledsoe has an extraordinary arm, has led teams to an SB berth (a thing most QBs ratrely do) and in addition played a key role backing up Brady in a must win game in their SB run.  The near 40K passing Bledsoe sites is an interesting indicator but for me is not the basis of why Bledsoe has performed and produced far better than the vast majpority of QBs in this league. He is not just another QB in the NFL despite the quite selective 120th statistical ranking the author sites.

 

On the other hand, the true stats sited by the author provide a good indication of why Bledsoe falls well short of being one of the best QBs there ever was and that there is even a  degree of truth to the posts which says Bledsoe sucks.  However, the fault in this line of thinking is that sucking at QB does not disqualify a player from getting into (certainly) and even meriting (possibly though if you suck alot of other things need to happen for you to merit entry from my perspective) entry into the HOF.

 

Bledsoe has had a good career that in my view will get him into the HOF and racked up a number of achievements which will likely merit him getting in though from my perspective as a fan he really sucks as  a QB to have on your team.

 

1. The HOF is about FAME and all in all it is a popularity contest which rests on the subjective judgments of the HOF committee.

 

I think the key to whether Bledsoe gets voted in is going to be a question of who he is competing against for the honor.  He will be competing against other players retired long enough to be up for when he is up for it.  I think a critical factor will be the bias which folks have toward the QB position, giving it far more credit than it deserves for Ws and far more blame than it deserves for Ls.

 

Bledsoe is going to be aided the most by the QB position gaining unprecedented hnor due to the superlative QB draft class of 1983 coinciding with the prescence of late round draft choice Joe Montana (one of the best QBs there ever was) in the league. The class and others marketed themslves as the QB Club (overemphasing the import of the position) and I would not be surpirsed to see the best QB available selected for entry into the HOF every year even if the best QB available is not as good a player as folks at some less marketed position like OL, K, or whatever.

 

As he is putting distance between his eventual retirement and that of the truly great QBs like Elway and Kelly, i think he will be the best QB available in his election year and will get in (if i were him I would avoid qualifying for the ballot the same year as Brett Farve because he will lost the comparison to him).

 

If you think Bledsoe does not deserve to get in, then the better argument for you to explore is who Bledsoe is likely to face off against. I am certain that many retiring players at CB, RB, etc are better than him, butbased on my survey of when he is likely to hang 'em up and who will be up against him. I will be surprised if he does not make it. In fact, if he avoids Farve it might even happen on the 1st ballot.

 

2. The question of whether he deserves to get in is another thing.  One can selectively view an present stats like 40K yards and make the case for him to get in and one can selectively present stats which illustrate him sucking and claim he should stay out.

 

Personally, i think Bledsoe was a QB I feared my team playing at several points earlier in his career (a rarity actually since generally I have felt Bill teams could beat anyone in the early 90s). However, for the last few years with NE he did not scare me at all to face him. As he played and particularly as his HCs failed to follow the Parcells and later Belicheck models of using him properly (maximizing what he did well and minimizing what he did poorly) he became eminently beatable.

 

Nevertheless, the article author is correct that W/L is what matters most, but as far as the specific of HOF entry its W/L in terms of getting to the Big Dance and winning it.  While the compilation of the overall Bledsoe winning percentage is important and fine-tuning it by looking at his record against to 10 team is an even better indicator, the ultimate W/L measure is getting to the SB and being critical to a team which won it.

 

The 40K+ passing yards, the record number of attempts, the extraordinary arm strength are good on paper, but the game is not played on paper and the key is going to come back to getting a team to the SB and being part of a winner.

 

Bledsoe will likely get into the HOF because of competition with weak QBs in his group of eligible but not-in-yet candidates. He will merit also in my view because with Parcells minimizing one of the weakest parts of his game by emphasizing to him just throw the damn ball when he would go into his pat in practice.  In the 40 or so SBs at the time he will be eligible there will be well fewer than 80 that even led a team to the Big Dance and the Bledsoe 40K number and longevity records will be in the context of his leading a team to the SB.

 

Further, in the 2001 season Bledsoe had his job taken by a better player as Brady came in when he was hurt and led the Pats to a successful SB season.  Nevertheless, Bledsoe will get and deserve in my view for playing QB in the majroty of a must win game for NE and throwing the winning TD pass.  Bledsoe was not a good enough player to be the NE #1 QB and Belicheck was correct to start Brady in the SB and to keep Brady as his starter the next season.  However, the addition of being one of 80 QBs to lead his team to an SB berth and being one of less than 40 to play an essential role on a SB winning team (I am not arguing that he was good, merely that he played an essential role as the #2 QB on an SB winner) will likely be enough to merit Bledsoe's entry into the HOF.

 

There is addotonal stuff both good and bad to merit or demerit his entry.

 

Among the things that will help him with the voting committee (though I do not necessarily view this as of import are):

 

1. His FAME clearly helped the Bills on the business side of the game when the trade to Buffalo accompanied great interest from WNY partisans coming off a 3-13 season.

 

2. He generally has a rep as a teamer and a quaility guy with the graceful manner he showed when the better QB (Brady) took his job and he did not (as many egotistic players would do) try to parlay his being on the field when the Pats won in the championship game into getting his job back or fanning a QB controversy.

 

3. He got a Pro Bowl reserve spot for the Bills (and deserved it unless you want to suggest the QB who deserved it more that year) and really was The Comeback Player of the year after Brady proved to be a better QB and his prescence with the Bills coinicided with their improvement from 3-13 to 8-8.

 

In addition, there are real events that will hurt him with the committee vote:

 

1. His play was simply horrendous under Kevin Killdrive in 2003.

2. He failed to lead the Bills to a playoff berth last year though we had it in our hands and were a game away.

3. He was unceremoniously dumped by the Bills as he refused to take a paycut which would have made for the mentoring of Losman.

 

Even still, if Bledsoe hung 'em up today. I think he would be in  the HOF (as he competed against other QBs likely to retire this year like Shane Matthews).  As he is not retiring, his career is not over and how it plays out in Dallas will tell a lot.  If his time in Dallas simply results in more results like 2003 when and the Bills ended up 6-10 it will hurt his case and maybe he won't get in despite selective use of glossy stats and his role in 2 SB berth teams.

 

If his Dallas career is like his 2004 Bills results it will not hurt him but also I doubt it will help as he needs to be with a team that makes the playoffs to add another redemption to his resume.

 

If however, he is the QB for a 'Boys team which makes the playoffs, even though they are incredibly unlikely to even smell the SB he likely will cement his rep as a Comeback Player and easily make the HOF.

 

Since the Boys are coming off a piss-poor 6-10 season, seemt to have am RB in Jones and Parcells wrote the book on getting production out of Bledsoe by using him as threat rather than depending on him to win games for you, I suspect that we will see yet another ressurection of Bledsoe's career. it may not be enough to make the playoffs but I think it will add to his FAME.

289159[/snapback]

 

GOOD LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ajzepp]

Easy.  10 is not greater than 10.

 

You (and the article) were pointing at victories against teams with MORE than 10 wins.  And again, I'm mainly pointing out that "journalists" nowadays seem to print whatever they want and don't really care about checking their facts first.

 

CW

289168[/snapback]

Fez, the article says ten or better......not 'more than ten'

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

http://www.eagletribune.com/news/stories/2...m?tbdSP_004.htm

 

The Bills are  handing the QB position to an unknown, rather than a known failure against quality teams. Somewhat sobering stats, wouldn't you say ?

288746[/snapback]

While I agree that Bledsoe is a marginal HOF'er, Bill Burt is a hack columnist/editor at a backwater paper who is most known around here for getting hammered at the Super Bowl and heckling Bledsoe in a hotel lobby. Nice guy.

 

Also, he held counseling sessions at his church after Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. He's a buffoon.

 

Also, he once wrote an article, referencing Jerome Bettis on with Letterman. The problem: it was a year old re-run.

[AKC]

The answer to the specific questions of whether he will get into the HOF and whether he merits entry compared to other candidates from my perspective and areview of the various pro and anti-Bledsoe are:

 

Yes, he will probably get into the HOF, and

 

Yes, he will likely deserve that honor

289159[/snapback]

 

Your comparative analysis is an excellent point. Kelly, statistically a lesser QB who never won the big game or earned a Super Bowl ring like Bledsoe, made it against far more convincing contemporaries than Bledsoe will face.

 

Also it seems to push the nomination through much more rapidly when a player attracts a few dozen Travis Bickel types. By my count (and including the 3 Travis Bickels who have been "uninvited" on this board for their obsessive posting regarding him) Bledsoe has a fan club of least 14 Bickel-types, some of whom have already appeared in this thread. If he has any luck in picking up another 8 or 9 he'll be a shoe-in for the Hall.

[AKC]

Fez, the article says ten or better......not 'more than ten'

289185[/snapback]

 

You're of course, once again, failing miserably at accurate representation of facts. The writer establishes the criteria as:

 

10-5-1 or better

 

That criteria does not include 10-6 teams. The writer goes on further to offer an explanation virtually anyone interested in objectivity could understand- "winning twice as many games as you lose". Again, a record of 10-6 does not meet the measure.

 

Hate on!

[KD in CA]

You're of course, once again, failing miserably at accurate representation of facts. The writer establishes the criteria as:

 

10-5-1 or better

 

That criteria does not include 10-6 teams. The writer goes on further to offer an explanation virtually anyone interested in objectivity could understand- "winning twice as many games as you lose". Again, a record of 10-6 does not meet the measure.

 

Hate on!

289195[/snapback]

 

 

Either way, I think the analysis of games v. good teams made the point pretty clearly: Bledsoe sucks and only deserves to be in the HOF if he buys a ticket.

[Arkady Renko]

A 3 Pager? You never expect that with a Drew Bledsoe thread.

[Rico]

Also it seems to push the nomination through much more rapidly when a player attracts a few dozen Travis Bickel types. By my count (and including the 3 Travis Bickels who have been "uninvited" on this board for their obsessive posting regarding him) Bledsoe has a fan club of least 14 Bickel-types, some of whom have already appeared in this thread. If he has any luck in picking up another 8 or 9 he'll be a shoe-in for the Hall.

289189[/snapback]

You talking to me?

 

It's Bickle, not Bickel.

[ajzepp]

You're of course, once again, failing miserably at accurate representation of facts. The writer establishes the criteria as:

 

10-5-1 or better

 

That criteria does not include 10-6 teams. The writer goes on further to offer an explanation virtually anyone interested in objectivity could understand- "winning twice as many games as you lose". Again, a record of 10-6 does not meet the measure.

 

Hate on!

289195[/snapback]

 

DAMMIT! Being a miserable failure is such a burden to me........I've got to find some way to overcome it!

 

By the way, it has nothing to do with hate.....it has everything to do with not getting the job done and being more a part of the problem than the solution. If you are satisfied with a QB who simply 'tries his best', then I guess that's your standard. It's not mine, and I don't think it's that of most Bills fans.

[Fezmid]

Either way, I think the analysis of games v. good teams made the point pretty clearly:  Bledsoe sucks and only deserves to be in the HOF if he buys a ticket.

289197[/snapback]

 

As I said before, stats do not live in a vacuum. On a whim, I decided to take Dante Culpepper's stats over the last three years (same as Bledsoe). Guess what? Against "good" teams (as defined in the article), Culpepper is 2-6 and 0-3 this year (even though they made the playoffs). Apparantly Culpepper is nearly as bad as Bledsoe is, yet this year, a lot of people were saying what a great QB he is, despite his high sack and fumble numbers and his low win percentage against "good" teams. It appeared to be even worse if you DID look at games vs 10-6 teams (ie: loss to GB twice this year, but did win one in the playoffs).

 

And so others can doublecheck my work for errors:

 

2002: Losses to GB and TB, win vs GB

2003: Loss to STL, win vs KC

2004: Losses to Phi (twice) and Indy

 

Go figure.

 

CW

[KRC]

Overall if the question is whether Bledsoe should be treated like just another QB or is instead one of the best their ever was, neither exteme is true from my read.  Bledsoe has an extraordinary arm, has led teams to an SB berth (a thing most QBs ratrely do) and in addition played a key role backing up Brady in a must win game in their SB run. 

 

While I agree with your statements regarding the selective use of statistics, I cannot agree with your use of Super Bowl berths as a criteria for Hall induction. I understand that you are using this as only one qualification and that there are several other factors that need to be considered, but I think too much emphasis is placed on Super Bowl berths by the fans.

 

 

 

1. The HOF is about FAME and all in all it is a popularity contest which rests on the subjective judgments of the HOF committee.

 

I think the key to whether Bledsoe gets voted in is going to be a question of who he is competing against for the honor.  He will be competing against other players retired long enough to be up for when he is up for it.  I think a critical factor will be the bias which folks have toward the QB position, giving it far more credit than it deserves for Ws and far more blame than it deserves for Ls.

 

Bledsoe is going to be aided the most by the QB position gaining unprecedented hnor due to the superlative QB draft class of 1983 coinciding with the prescence of late round draft choice Joe Montana (one of the best QBs there ever was) in the league. The class and others marketed themslves as the QB Club (overemphasing the import of the position) and I would not be surpirsed to see the best QB available selected for entry into the HOF every year even if the best QB available is not as good a player as folks at some less marketed position like OL, K, or whatever.

 

As he is putting distance between his eventual retirement and that of the truly great QBs like Elway and Kelly, i think he will be the best QB available in his election year and will get in (if i were him I would avoid qualifying for the ballot the same year as Brett Farve because he will lost the comparison to him).

 

If you think Bledsoe does not deserve to get in, then the better argument for you to explore is who Bledsoe is likely to face off against. I am certain that many retiring players at CB, RB, etc are better than him, butbased on my survey of when he is likely to hang 'em up and who will be up against him. I will be surprised if he does not make it. In fact, if he avoids Farve it might even happen on the 1st ballot.

 

IMO, emphasis is placed on the skill positions, not necessarily just the QB position. The recent inductions have had QB's, but that is just a function of the retirement years and not the fact that the Hall looks to induct QB's first. When Bledsoe retires, not only is he competing against others that retired the same year, but he is also competing against every player that has played before him and has not been inducted. He is also competing against contributors. IMO, there is no way he makes it first ballot and I would say that he does not make it at all.

 

 

 

 

2. The question of whether he deserves to get in is another thing.  One can selectively view an present stats like 40K yards and make the case for him to get in and one can selectively present stats which illustrate him sucking and claim he should stay out.

 

Personally, i think Bledsoe was a QB I feared my team playing at several points earlier in his career (a rarity actually since generally I have felt Bill teams could beat anyone in the early 90s). However, for the last few years with NE he did not scare me at all to face him. As he played and particularly as his HCs failed to follow the Parcells and later Belicheck models of using him properly (maximizing what he did well and minimizing what he did poorly) he became eminently beatable.

 

Nevertheless, the article author is correct that W/L is what matters most, but as far as the specific of HOF entry its W/L in terms of getting to the Big Dance and winning it.  While the compilation of the overall Bledsoe winning percentage is important and fine-tuning it by looking at his record against to 10 team is an even better indicator, the ultimate W/L measure is getting to the SB and being critical to a team which won it.

 

Again, it is not Super Bowl berths or SB victories. If that was the case, Marino would be passed over in order to make room for Hoestettler, Rypien and Williams. All have won Super Bowls. None will be inducted.

 

As you mention in paragraph 2 of this quote, Bledsoe was not feared later in his career. This will be the major argument against his induction. Saying that he did not have proper coaching will not fly.

[ajzepp]

As I said before, stats do not live in a vacuum.  On a whim, I decided to take Dante Culpepper's stats over the last three years (same as Bledsoe).  Guess what?  Against "good" teams (as defined in the article), Culpepper is 2-6 and 0-3 this year (even though they made the playoffs).  Apparantly Culpepper is nearly as bad as Bledsoe is, yet this year, a lot of people were saying what a great QB he is, despite his high sack and fumble numbers and his low win percentage against "good" teams.  It appeared to be even worse if you DID look at games vs 10-6 teams (ie: loss to GB twice this year, but did win one in the playoffs).

 

And so others can doublecheck my work for errors:

 

2002: Losses to GB and TB, win vs GB

2003: Loss to STL, win vs KC

2004: Losses to Phi (twice) and Indy

 

Go figure.

 

CW

289205[/snapback]

 

Did you happen to notice his TD numbers? What about his QB rating?

[KD in CA]

As I said before, stats do not live in a vacuum.  On a whim, I decided to take Dante Culpepper's stats over the last three years (same as Bledsoe).  Guess what?  Against "good" teams (as defined in the article), Culpepper is 2-6 and 0-3 this year (even though they made the playoffs).  Apparantly Culpepper is nearly as bad as Bledsoe is, yet this year, a lot of people were saying what a great QB he is, despite his high sack and fumble numbers and his low win percentage against "good" teams.  It appeared to be even worse if you DID look at games vs 10-6 teams (ie: loss to GB twice this year, but did win one in the playoffs).

 

And so others can doublecheck my work for errors:

 

2002: Losses to GB and TB, win vs GB

2003: Loss to STL, win vs KC

2004: Losses to Phi (twice) and Indy

 

Go figure.

 

CW

289205[/snapback]

 

Dante Culpepper? Dante Culpepper is Exhibit A for why you can't just look at stats when measuring a great player.

 

I suspect we'll see what a 'great' QB he is this year when he doesn't have Randy Moss to throw jump balls to any more.

[AKC]

You talking to me?

 

It's Bickle, not Bickel.

289202[/snapback]

 

Please extend my apologies to any members fo your immediate family who are offended by your last name being spelled incorrectly.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

http://www.eagletribune.com/news/stories/2...m?tbdSP_004.htm

 

The Bills are  handing the QB position to an unknown, rather than a known failure against quality teams. Somewhat sobering stats, wouldn't you say ?

288746[/snapback]

 

 

Bledsoe! *SPLAT* No, Losman! *SPLAT* No, Bledsoe! *SPLAT* No, Flutie! *SPLAT* No, RJ! *SPLAT* No, Flutie! *SPLAT*...

 

Uhhh...what year is it again? The more things change...

[Rico]

Again, it is not Super Bowl berths or SB victories. If that was the case, Marino would be passed over in order to make room for Hoestettler, Rypien and Williams. All have won Super Bowls. None will be inducted.

289207[/snapback]

It may take a long, long time, but I can see Doug Williams making the HOF for being the 1st black QB to win a Super Bowl. He's already made it past the first round of nominations.

[AKC]

By the way, it has nothing to do with hate.....

 

If you are satisfied with a QB who simply 'tries his best', then I guess that's your standard. It's not mine, and I don't think it's that of most Bills fans.

289204[/snapback]

 

I think all Bill's fans who are not consumed by hate expect J.P. Losman to try his best. I'm also quite certain that those of us who are not ruled by hatred of former Bills players hope that J.P.'s best is better than what we've gotten the past two seasons.

 

In fact, you have a lot of crust suggesting you know anything at all about Bill's fans since it's only you and 6 or 7 others who are obsessed to the point of posting everyday about former players instead of looking to the future with all the real Bill's fans

 

But hey, you go right ahead and Hate On!

[ajzepp]

I think all Bill's fans who are not consumed by hate expect J.P. Losman to try his best. I'm also quite certain that those of us who are not ruled by hatred of former Bills players hope that J.P.'s best is better than what we've gotten the past two seasons.

 

In fact, you have a lot of crust suggesting you know anything at all about Bill's fans since it's only you and 6 or 7 others who are obsessed to the point of posting everyday about former players instead of looking to the future with all the real Bill's fans

 

But hey, you go right ahead and Hate On!

289217[/snapback]

 

First of all, who is this Bill character?

 

Second, what does JP have to do with this? He hasn't even played a game yet, bro. We're talking about an article that was linked to TBD today. Because some (most) folks have a different opinion than you, that means we're obsessing? You sure seem to post pretty frequently about the guy too, ya know