Kingsbury finalizing AZ HC deal

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Such a copy cat league. 

 

No imagination at all. 

 

Just find the youngest offensive assistant you can because it "worked" with McVay. 

[fridge]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Before we crown McVay, lets keep in mind he has 0 playoff game wins still and hasn't won anything.  ....

 

Keep in mind, he didn't turn that team around using the same roster Fisher had.  In fact, the offense got a complete overhaul that year and they added two critical OL which allowed Gurly to get going again after a slump of a sophomore year.  They also gutted the WRs and added Watkins, Woods, and Kupp plus they drafted Garrett also to form a dangerous duo for them at TE. 

 

1. By the end of the week he could have more playoff wins than the Bills have had in 23 years. The guy is 24-8. To put in perspective how much better he's been than McDermott in their first two years, if McDermott goes 10-6 next year, McVay would need to go 0-16 for McDermott to have a better record.

 

2. I truly don't understand your point about the roster.  He gutted the roster and made them a winning team in one offseason? That's spectacular.  We're sitting here in McDermott's third offseason, praying he develops an understanding for the importance of lineman and receivers.

[Alphadawg7]

35 minutes ago, fridge said:

 

1. By the end of the week he could have more playoff wins than the Bills have had in 23 years. The guy is 24-8. To put in perspective how much better he's been than McDermott in their first two years, if McDermott goes 10-6 next year, McVay would need to go 0-16 for McDermott to have a better record.

 

2. I truly don't understand your point about the roster.  He gutted the roster and made them a winning team in one offseason? That's spectacular.  We're sitting here in McDermott's third offseason, praying he develops an understanding for the importance of lineman and receivers.

 

Wow, all I can say is another case of Bills fan PTSD on full display here. What does anything I said about McVay have to do with either the Bills or McD?  Lmao

 

It’s pretty comical you even bring it up considering Rams have one of the most talented offensive rosters in the NFL and Bills are now where the Rams were when McVay was hired.  Talent on the defense, rookie QB entering his second year and about to rebuild the offensive personnel.   

42 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Such a copy cat league. 

 

No imagination at all. 

 

Just find the youngest offensive assistant you can because it "worked" with McVay. 

 

Will people keep saying “it worked” with McVay if they lose to the Cowboys and he is 0-2 in the post season with all that firepower?  Like I said earlier, I like McVay a lot, but people treat him like he’s a multi Super Bowl winner when he hasn’t won a single playoff game yet.  Let the guy win something that matters before he becomes the barometer is my stance.

[purple haze]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What a dumb take.  Mahomes had like 50 tds his last year in college and set records his first year as a starter in the nfl. KK didn’t get fires because of his offense.

 

this is exactly the hire the Bills never make.  It may not work but at least they went for a homerun.  I respect it a ton. 

Mike Leach and Tommy Tuberville didn't have issues winning at Tech.  We'll see if Kingsbury is up to it, but there's a lot of reasons to doubt his hire.  

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

As others have noted this looks like an attempt by Arizona to mimic the Rams Sean McVay hiring.  You know the one where you bring in the hot new offensive mind with very little NFL experience baggage and unleash him on the league.  What could possibly go wrong? 

 

My gut says though that Sean McVay's don't grow on trees and once an organization tries to COPY the success (luck) of another it usually doesn't work out.  I guess only time will tell.  However on the face of it Rosen should be happy with this hire. 

McVay was an NFL assistant for seven or eight years.  His grandpops was the GM of the 49ers at one time.  Kingsbury did play a few years, but that ain't coaching and it damn sure is t being a professional head coach.

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Thank you!

 

he got fired because he didn’t pick a good enough DC and didn’t have good enough defensive recruits. 

 

So so if he gets a good DC (Wade was begging for a job when the Rams hired him), the Cards got a guy with a damn good record of developing absolute stud qbs.  We have parties for throwing for over 200 yards and scoring 2 tds in a game.

The Big 12 is a 7 on 7 league.  What team in that conference plays good D?  The top teams all score boucoup points.  That's not special in the Big 12.  

Edited January 9, 2019 by purple haze

[fridge]

39 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wow, all I can say is another case of Bills fan PTSD on full display here. What does anything I said about McVay have to do with either the Bills or McD?  Lmao

 

 

...because this is a bills message board? The context is implicit in the site's name.  You can't say you're not ready to crown McVay when a large majority here have already crowned McDermott.  The context is the the only reason that I'm here.

[Saxum]

6 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Interesting.  He's had very little exposure to the NFL.  He spent a few years as a player.  I don't know othat he ever started.  I wonder what his contribution would be in terms of Xs and Os.  Presumably he'll hire an OC with NFL experience.  Maybe he'll sit down with that OC in the crafting of an offense that blends a generous portion of college concepts with the traditional NFL fare.  

 

1 game with 2 passes one caught. Could not find out who was the only player to catch his pass in NFL.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KingKl00/gamelog/

[stony]

35 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Mike Leach and Tommy Tuberville didn't have issues winning at Tech.  We'll see if Kingsbury is up to it, but there's a lot of reasons to doubt his hire.  

A bit off topic, but Mike Leach's greatest accomplishment at TT was locking up that ESPN guy's son in the shed. 

[dubs]

12 minutes ago, fridge said:

 

...because this is a bills message board? The context is implicit in the site's name.  You can't say you're not ready to crown McVay when a large majority here have already crowned McDermott.  The context is the the only reason that I'm here.

 

Don’t really think anyone is crowning anybody. Being optimistic about McDemott isn’t the same as saying he’s the second coming of Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Chuck Knoll, or Bill Belichick. 

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, fridge said:

 

...because this is a bills message board? The context is implicit in the site's name.  You can't say you're not ready to crown McVay when a large majority here have already crowned McDermott.  The context is the the only reason that I'm here.

 

But again, my comments had nothing to do with Bills.  McVay comment was about McVay, not how he compares to McD.  

 

But since you brought it up...right now, they both have the same amount of playoff victories despite McVay having the vastly more talented team ?

 

5 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Don’t really think anyone is crowning anybody. Being optimistic about McDemott isn’t the same as saying he’s the second coming of Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Chuck Knoll, or Bill Belichick. 

 

Yup, and yet some how McVay is being treated like he is Lombardi before he’s even won a single playoff game.  

 

Im a real fan of McVay too, but I try and remain unbiased and keep it real.  He needs to win before he’s the model people try and copy.  

Edited January 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[fridge]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But again, my comments had nothing to do with Bills.  McVay comment was about McVay, not how he compares to McD.  

 

But since you brought it up...right now, they both have the same amount of playoff victories despite McVay having the vastly more talented team ?

 

Yes, "since I brought it up," you couldn't help but confirm my point.

 

Is that right or am I just too PTSD'd to understand what's going on here?

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, fridge said:

 

Yes, "since I brought it up," you couldn't help but confirm my point.

 

Is that right or am I just too PTSD'd to understand what's going on here?

 

Huh?  Lol all I said is that before McVay is crowned the next king of the HCs, let’s pump the brakes and see him have some post season success first.  You responded with a rant about McD and the Bills which had nothing to do with what I said.  

 

 

All good, I really don’t get where you want to go with this.  I’m not ready to crown McVay, even as a fan of his, until he wins in the post season.  You seem to have an issue with McD that you want to drag into that opinion, so not sure what else there is to discuss on the matter.  They don’t have anything to do with each other.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

McVay had NFL OC experience and a very experienced, accomplished DC with HC experience that he could trust and lean on. We will see who kliff brings in but the only similarity between the two is they are young and on the offensive side. 

To be clear I agree with you guys about McVay.  The baggage I referred to was more about McVay not having been a head coach before. 

 

My main point was to point out how predictably the NFL copies what they consider the newest hot thing.  And as others have noted McVay may lay an egg in the playoffs so who knows if over the long haul he really will be that good of a coach?  My guess is that McVay will turn out to be a unique talent who is a good coach and most importantly he will not be easily "copied". 

 

As an aside, I have to say some of the picks for head coach today are real head scratchers beyond their superficial resemblance to McVay. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

Mike Leach and Tommy Tuberville didn't have issues winning at Tech.  We'll see if Kingsbury is up to it, but there's a lot of reasons to doubt his hire.  

Now name the nfl qbs they produced.  I’ll wait.

 

here are the ones KK worked with: Mahomes, Mayfield, Manziel, and Keenum.  I would be so mad if the Bills hired a 39 year old coach with that on his resume.  Give me Brian Daboll’s resume!

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

To be clear I agree with you guys about McVay.  The baggage I referred to was more about McVay not having been a head coach before. 

 

My main point was to point out how predictably the NFL copies what they consider the newest hot thing.  And as others have noted McVay may lay an egg in the playoffs so who knows if over the long haul he really will be that good of a coach?  My guess is that McVay will turn out to be a unique talent who is a good coach and most importantly he will not be easily "copied". 

 

As an aside, I have to say some of the picks for head coach today are real head scratchers beyond their superficial resemblance to McVay. 

 

It is a new trend but it’s also each team doing everything they can to make the most of their First Round QB investment.  No team should be criticized for prioritizing their R now Year 2 QBs:,  That goes for acquiring  the talent On the field and the talent off the field.

 

Rams got Goff McVay and a number of FA Signings and in Goff’s 2nd Season he was the division winner

 

Beara got Trubisky Nagy and a Number Of FA Signings and in Trubiskys 2nd Season he was the division winner.

 

Also both teams dumped their old Defensive Minded Coaches the season before.

 

So it HAS yielded results.

 

So who will it be in 2019.  The 2nd Year QB with a Offensive Minded Coach and Money to spend?

 

Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen?

 

i tip my hat to the owners who are willing to just play this game the way it is being played.

Edited January 9, 2019 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Huh?  Lol all I said is that before McVay is crowned the next king of the HCs, let’s pump the brakes and see him have some post season success first.  You responded with a rant about McD and the Bills which had nothing to do with what I said.  

 

 

All good, I really don’t get where you want to go with this.  I’m not ready to crown McVay, even as a fan of his, until he wins in the post season.  You seem to have an issue with McD that you want to drag into that opinion, so not sure what else there is to discuss on the matter.  They don’t have anything to do with each other.

 

I love you as a poster but I hate this take.  Know how you win a SB? Make the playoffs.  McVay took one of the most garbage franchises and made it a top 5 one.  Man, that would suck. 

[YoloinOhio]

37 minutes ago, stony said:

A bit off topic, but Mike Leach's greatest accomplishment at TT was locking up that ESPN guy's son in the shed. 

lol Craig James?

[folz]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude, it was a Jauron team that got super lucky.  And it’s about time because we deserved it but nothing about that year spoke to a good football team.  The drought is over but we are an Andy Dalton pass away from SM being on a very hot seat.

 

gun to your head, what’s more likely for a Brian Daboll led offense: Bottom or top 10 finish?  It’s like as Bills fans we just pray for something magically to happen where there is absolutely nothing Daboll has shown where he can be a top OC.  

 

Just curious. There was almost the same scenario this year for the Steelers. If Baltimore lost, the Steelers would have been in the playoffs with 9 wins (like Buffalo had last year). How many people would have been saying the Steelers got super lucky? Or, what if the Baltimore game ended before the Bills/Miami game last year. So, we already knew if we win we're in. Would that have changed the perception of if the Bills were lucky to make the playoffs last year? I think a lot of people feel it was lucky because of how it played out. But that stuff happens every year for teams, maybe not 4th and 12 on the last game of the season, but every team gets lucky at different points of the year. A win they shouldn't have had that they squeaked out, a call that goes their way to give them a game, help from other teams to get them in the playoffs, an opposing team's star player(s) were injured when they played them, etc.

 

But, still,  I'm glad the way it worked out. That was an all-time Buffalo Bills moment (and I was around for all of the Super Bowl years). I wouldn't trade it for anything, so, to me,  it just feels like it is diminishing that moment of team/fan camaraderie and release to keep repeating that they just got lucky.

 

 

As to the Bills not picking Mahomes, you have to remember that Doug Whaley was still the GM, so McDermott was working with Whaley's staff's information. Plus, more importantly, they (Pegulas/McDermott) knew they were going to be replacing the GM, so, you may not want to pick a QB that you aren't sure the new GM will be onboard with. That could cause friction right from the start. They smartly waited to have their GM in place and for the draft that was supposed to have better talent. Probably a good move at that time.

 

 

As for Daboll, I was pretty down on him early in the year, but the offense got more creative as Josh was able to handle more and they found some speed. And players (Zay, Josh, Robert) seem to be developing well under him. Plus, it's kind of hard to fault him too much for the beginning of the season, he had lost a Pro Bowl Center and Guard (that weren't adequately replaced) and was starting Peterman and then a raw Josh Allen at QB. With Anderson and Barkley thrown in there too. Plus, he was saddled with Castillo. He didn't get to pick his own offensive staff. So, he had to get the coaches up to speed with what he wanted to do too. Those were some tough odds to overcome. And he may have not done well his first time around as OC, but a lot of guys don't make it on their first gig, but do well in their second go around. He then went back to New England and then on to Bama (where he picked up concepts from the college game). I don't know if he will ultimately work out or not, but I also don't assume he'll have a bottom 10 offense directly because of his coaching. The jury is still out, but he did enough to get a 2nd year and keep continuity for our QB. Plus his New England style offense is said to be complicated and multiple. Maybe year two, when a lot of the players are more familiar with it and have run more variations of it, we will see major improvements. (Side note: we also may not have Robert Foster and/or Levi Wallace if he didn't become a Bills coach last year, just saying.)

 

I know the last 17-18 years have been tough, but to me it feels like we are finally heading in the right direction. We made the playoffs last year and it was going to be really hard to win this year (especially after losing Wood and Incognito) due to purging the salary cap. But that was an absolute necessity for the team's future. You can either be down about a 6-10 season and think same old Bills, or you can look at the reasons why and both the draft and financial capital they have for next season and be excited for the future.

 

 

But, I guess if you just don't like McDermott, Daboll, and/or Josh Allen there will probably be no opinions changed here until they ultimately either sink or swim.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I love you as a poster but I hate this take.  Know how you win a SB? Make the playoffs.  McVay took one of the most garbage franchises and made it a top 5 one.  Man, that would suck. 

 

All good man.  But I am honestly not sure what you hate about it, I didn’t say anything negative about McVay.  I’m a fan, Rams are my second team.  All I said is that even as a fan of McVay, I want to see him win in the postseason before I make him the next GOAT.  There is a lot to love so far, but he really needs to win this weekend.  

 

But I will add, people keep giving McVay all the credit and don’t acknowledge that in McVays first year he was given:  2 very good new OL.  3 very good new WRs.  A good rookie TE to pair with another good TE.  And the number one pick in draft going into his second season to start along the best RB in the NFL.

 

So while McVay certainly deserves kudos and credit for what the Rams are now, he didn’t turn around the same bottom feeder team that was on the field the year before.  It’s a lot easier to start your HC career off when you have one of the best, if not the best, offensive personnel groups in the league and the best defensive player in the NFL too.  I’m sure McVay played a role in that new talent, so not taking that away, just saying the roster was a complete overhaul.

 

I think my post has been taken as if I’m down on McVay or discrediting him.  But that’s not what I was saying at all.  I’m very high on him and his future.  My point is that people keep talking about him like he’s won multiple Super Bowls and now are trying to find the “Next McVay” before there’s even really been a “First McVay”.  Let’s see him win when it matters before making him the new blueprint is all I am saying.

 

And for the record, there is A LOT of similarities of this Bills roster today to the Rams roster the day they hired McVay.  I do think if we make the right moves offensively this year we can see a Rams type jump next year like they had in McVays first year.  

Edited January 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Now name the nfl qbs they produced.  I’ll wait.

 

here are the ones KK worked with: Mahomes, Mayfield, Manziel, and Keenum.  I would be so mad if the Bills hired a 39 year old coach with that on his resume.  Give me Brian Daboll’s resume!

Brian Daboll's not the HC.  If Kingsbury got an OC gig maybe this hire wouldn't be so suspect.  He's good with QBs, great, make him QB coach.  And 39, in and of itself, doesn't mean jack.

Edited January 9, 2019 by purple haze