Does CFB Championship game end the “they can beat a pro team” stuff finally?

[row_33]

9 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I don't need to watch college football intensively lol. It's fun but I don't watch much of it because the product is noticeable worse talent wise than any NFL...

 

I did a lot of road trips with Saturday NCAA and Sunday NFL games.

 

it was fun going to see the college kids and all the hoopla and I could get drawn into it.

 

and then on Sunday....

 

the men came to play with hits sounding like two cars colliding head on, sitting between the 20s in the front rows provided a sound of violence and force on every play that the kids can’t provide

 

And  realizing that practically every college QB isn’t remotely close to the talent levels of scrub NFL QBs, sadly the elite schools mostly play an option game and won’t let the kid learn how to drop back and stay in the pocket.

 

and then I’d slip into letting myself enjoy the next college game for more than it was honestly providing 

Edited January 12, 2019 by row_33

[MJS]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

There isn’t a single scap of evidence to support any of these three assertions.  

 

The scrap is common sense. Everyone sees how tough it is for rookies in the NFL. Having a team of rookies would be lambs to the slaughter. Alabama is worse than a team of rookies.

[row_33]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

The scrap is common sense. Everyone sees how tough it is for rookies in the NFL. Having a team of rookies would be lambs to the slaughter. Alabama is worse than a team of rookies.

 

Thise fans who disagree should go see the rookies begin to learn how to play the game at training camp.

 

 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

I did a lot of road trips with Saturday NCAA and Sunday NFL games.

 

it was fun going to see the college kids and all the hoopla and I could get drawn into it.

 

and then on Sunday....

 

the men came to play with hits sounding like two cars colliding head on, sitting between the 20s in the front rows provided a sound of violence and force on every play that the kids can’t provide

 

And  realizing that practically every college QB isn’t remotely close to the talent levels of scrub NFL QBs, sadly the elite schools mostly play an option game and won’t let the kid learn how to drop back and stay in the pocket.

 

and then I’d slip into letting myself enjoy the next college game for more than it was honestly providing 

 

Oh yeah. I can't really watch college. Such a sloppy, slow paced, bumbling game. There is a tremendous difference in the quality of football being played. You watch college and everyone is out of position, everyone seems so unathletic, the QB's are all terrible, and you have to stare at their bare legs because they don't wear long socks.

 

In the NFL everything is so crisp and perfect on every play. It is so organized and efficient. Routes by the WR's are so precise. Balls are thrown on time. Defenses swirl is perfect synchrony. And everyone is so fast and so athletic. It is on a different level from college.

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Oh yeah. I can't really watch college. Such a sloppy, slow paced, bumbling game. There is a tremendous difference in the quality of football being played. You watch college and everyone is out of position, everyone seems so unathletic, the QB's are all terrible, and you have to stare at their bare legs because they don't wear long socks.

 

In the NFL everything is so crisp and perfect on every play. It is so organized and efficient. Routes by the WR's are so precise. Balls are thrown on time. Defenses swirl is perfect synchrony. And everyone is so fast and so athletic. It is on a different level from college.

 

Bingo.

 

for another sport I have to hear people tell me “I like college hoops better, they slap the floor to show they are getting serious now on D”

 

our mileages will vary....

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Bingo.

 

for another sport I have to hear people tell me “I like college hoops better, they slap the floor to show they are getting serious now on D”

 

our mileages will vary....

 

My problem with pro basketball is they don't follow the rules. They carry the ball on like every single play. But I don't watch much basketball. Just hockey and football for me.

Edited January 12, 2019 by MJS

[row_33]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

My problem with pro basketball is they don't follow the rules. They carry the ball on like every single play. But I don't watch much basketball. Just hockey and football for me.

 

Do you come close to thinking that Junior or NCAA hockey is way better than the NHL?

 

rhe NBA problem is contempt for the regular season and the fans pay $200 and find out the star needs a night off to rest.. again..... this week....

 

 

 

[MJS]

5 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Do you come close to thinking that Junior or NCAA hockey is way better than the NHL?

 

rhe NBA problem is contempt for the regular season and the fans pay $200 and find out the star needs a night off to rest.. again..... this week....

 

 

No, I don't. But to be fair I have to admit that I have never once in my life watched any hockey but pro hockey, plus some Olympic hockey, I suppose.

[SinceThe70s]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So the thread that the OP so wildly objected to earlier in the season was would Alabama beat the spread of 28.5 points against the Bills.

 

Oops, different argument. Apologies for the distraction.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

8 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

I did a lot of road trips with Saturday NCAA and Sunday NFL games.

 

it was fun going to see the college kids and all the hoopla and I could get drawn into it.

 

and then on Sunday....

 

the men came to play with hits sounding like two cars colliding head on, sitting between the 20s in the front rows provided a sound of violence and force on every play that the kids can’t provide

 

And  realizing that practically every college QB isn’t remotely close to the talent levels of scrub NFL QBs, sadly the elite schools mostly play an option game and won’t let the kid learn how to drop back and stay in the pocket.

 

and then I’d slip into letting myself enjoy the next college game for more than it was honestly providing 

Just out of curiosity which NCAA games did you see? I think that we are all in agreement on 99% of the teams. The conversation isn’t about “a college team” (and never was). It was about Alabama and a 28.5 spread (not straight up). Clemson has to be a part of that conversation as well. 

 

If you are talking about solid programs like Louisville or Wake Forest (perenial Bowl teams) Clemson beat them by 60 and 61. If we are talking about an undefeated ND Clemson beat them by 4 scores. We need to stop inserting “could generic college team beat and NFL team” and focus on what the question was (and is) “could Clemson or Alabama cover 28.5 points vs. a bad NFL team?”  It’s a totally different question. We can’t use college teams interchangeably. There is a MASSIVE gap between solid programs and Clemson and ‘Bama. Those teams are ONLY recruiting future NFL players. It’s like that run Kentucky had 7 or 8 years ago. They were bringing in 5 of the top 7 players in the country. 

 

Without bothering to do the research I would bet that there are more 1st round picks playing at Alabama and Clemson than any NFL team has. Again, there is a giant mental gap but not a talent gap.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 1/8/2019 at 6:29 AM, Chuck Wagon said:

Using the Bills in that scenario was always dumb.  It's pretty clear all the talk about us being the worst team in the league was way off base.

With Peterman at QB I don't think they win 2 games all year

[Bing Bong]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

and you have to stare at their bare legs because they don't wear long socks.

I mean c'mon.. kids at Clemson don't even wear their socks long enough. You're telling me that can cover the spread.

Edited January 12, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[mjt328]

16 hours ago, mannc said:

Again, the bolded is simply wrong.  Pretty much every starter on offense and defense for both those teams will either be drafted or get a legitimate shot at the NFL as an UDFA, like Levi Wallace and Robert Foster did. 

 

Alabama (and now Clemson, apparently) really doesn't have major holes.  Saban doesn't have a limited number of draft picks or a salary cap, like NFL teams do.  He pretty much has his pick of the best players in the country every year at every position. Not one of their starting players would be embarrassed or even out of place in the NFL, and if you think there is huge physical difference between 21-year old scholarship football players who are living, eating and training in the Alabama program and guys a couple years older in the NFL, then you haven't been watching much college football lately.  

 

 

The worst NFL team would destroy the best NCAA team by 30-40 points easily.  And that's if they decided to lay-off at halftime. 

It's a joke that anyone would even think otherwise.  Here are the facts:

 

The most players one school has EVER had picked in a single draft is Ohio State in 2004, when they had 14 players selected.  (Here is a link to the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ohio_State_Buckeyes_in_the_NFL_Draft)  Sounds like a lot.  But in 2003, Ohio State only had 5 players drafted and in 2005 they only had 3 players drafted.  This works out to an average of 7 players per draft, which is pretty standard for the top schools.  In fact, over the last decade, the top colleges (Alabama, Clemson, LSU and USC) are only averaging about 6-7 players drafted per year.   (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/23316209/college-programs-most-nfl-draft-picks-last-10-years)

 

Adding those up for three seasons (sophomore, junior, senior), you come to about 18-21 players at the "big schools" who will ultimately get drafted.  So that means if you took their best 53 players against an NFL team's best 53 players, a school like Alabama would be fielding at least 30 guys who aren't even good enough to be drafted onto a professional roster.  These are guys who are going to be working other jobs after college.  Not playing football at all.

 

Then consider how many draft picks are ultimately successful.  Sure, guys picked in the 1st-2nd Rounds are usually pretty good bets.  But by the time you get to Day 3 picks, those guys are a long-shot to even make a roster.  Go back and look at the 2004 Ohio State team I mentioned.  How many of those guys were actually long-term starters in the NFL?  Maybe 3 or 4 guys (Will Smith, Chris Gamble..).  How many were impact players?  I don't see any.  Players like Reggie Ragland, A'Shawn Robinson and Marlon Humphrey may be studs in college, but then turn into backups when they hit the pros - if they don't flame-out completely.

 

That still doesn't factor into the learning and physical curves even the best NFL rookies experience during their first 1-2 seasons.  We are talking about veteran professionals against 18-20 year olds who haven't even undergone an NFL training camp yet.  In the NFL, even crappy linemen are bigger and stronger.  Even slow players are faster.  Even dumb players are more experienced.  How many rookies can you honestly say walk into the NFL and totally dominate from Week 1?  Since we are talking Alabama, look at Calvin Ridley.  He had a pretty good rookie season, and has a very promising future.  But right now, he is still the 3rd receiver on the Falcons and finished the season with just over 60 catches and 800 yards.

 

Finally, you must consider that NFL teams are a combination of talents from across hundreds of schools.  Alabama may have a reputation for putting out great NFL players overall.  But when was the last time they actually fielded a top NFL quarterback?  The best QB they have offered the NFL in decades is AJ McCarron.  The NFL has the benefit of selecting the best bits and pieces from everywhere.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

With Peterman at QB I don't think they win 2 games all year

 

...Gruden does NOT approve of this message..............

[row_33]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Just out of curiosity which NCAA games did you see? I think that we are all in agreement on 99% of the

 

The QB is the most important part of the NFL

 

Richard ***** Todd was Bama’s last QB of note

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

The QB is the most important part of the NFL

 

Richard ***** Todd was Bama’s last QB of note

 

 

Tua is still going to be an early 1st. He is going to be an NFL starter. 

[Chuck Wagon]

23 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

With Peterman at QB I don't think they win 2 games all year

 

 

They cut him. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Not trying to go down this road again but in Matt Miller’s latest mock draft 8 of the 32 picks are from Clemson and Alabama. That’s 25% of the first round (and a zillion guys not yet eligible or coming out). The point remains, these aren’t teams with a handful of NFL players. There will be 50 guys on those rosters that will be in the NFL and 20 that will be 1st rounders. 

 

No, no they wouldn’t beat an NFL team (no one ever said that they would). No, they wouldn’t be physically dominated by bad NFL teams either. The guys that are there are bigger, faster and stronger. That’s why they go so early. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[Thurman#1]

On 1/12/2019 at 11:04 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

Just out of curiosity which NCAA games did you see? I think that we are all in agreement on 99% of the teams. The conversation isn’t about “a college team” (and never was). It was about Alabama and a 28.5 spread (not straight up). Clemson has to be a part of that conversation as well. 

 

If you are talking about solid programs like Louisville or Wake Forest (perenial Bowl teams) Clemson beat them by 60 and 61. If we are talking about an undefeated ND Clemson beat them by 4 scores. We need to stop inserting “could generic college team beat and NFL team” and focus on what the question was (and is) “could Clemson or Alabama cover 28.5 points vs. a bad NFL team?”  It’s a totally different question. We can’t use college teams interchangeably. There is a MASSIVE gap between solid programs and Clemson and ‘Bama. Those teams are ONLY recruiting future NFL players. It’s like that run Kentucky had 7 or 8 years ago. They were bringing in 5 of the top 7 players in the country. 

 

Without bothering to do the research I would bet that there are more 1st round picks playing at Alabama and Clemson than any NFL team has. Again, there is a giant mental gap but not a talent gap.

 

 

And again, there really is a talent gap.

 

Even most first rounders don't play nearly as well as rookies as they do two or three years down the road. And while a lack of mental preparation is a large part of that, there's simply a lot more to it.

 

At age 21 and 22 these kids aren't nearly as strong as they will be in a couple of years, as men rather than young men.

 

Talent, as far as it would affect a college team playing an NFL team, isn't about eventual potential talent. It's about ability to play well RIGHT NOW, today!!!! Without a training camp. Without a first season and without two or three more. If you're talking about talent as far as having the kind of body frame that can be built into an NFL player, yeah, Alabama and maybe Clemson are beyond the other college teams. But if you're talking about talent in terms of whether a starter from the Crimson Tide can step right out of Tuscaloosa and one week later show the kind of talent to look good in the NFL ... nah. There would absolutely be a "talent at this moment gap," to make up an awkward phrase. Put 'im up against a fourth-rounder who's put on 25 pounds, spent three or four or five or however many years getting stronger in the pros, grooving his skills and learning what it takes to play in the pros and there might be one or two guys who could manage it. Maybe.

 

Even with the 28.5 points, I'd bet the pros in a second. And I don't bet.

 

It wouldn't be surprising to see the college guys lose by sixty. Especially as probably half of those eventual first rounders are still learning the college game as 19 or 20 year-old red-shirt freshmen or whatever.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Not trying to go down this road again but in Matt Miller’s latest mock draft 8 of the 32 picks are from Clemson and Alabama. That’s 25% of the first round (and a zillion guys not yet eligible or coming out). The point remains, these aren’t teams with a handful of NFL players. There will be 50 guys on those rosters that will be in the NFL and 20 that will be 1st rounders. 

 

No, no they wouldn’t beat an NFL team (no one ever said that they would). No, they wouldn’t be physically dominated by bad NFL teams either. The guys that are there are bigger, faster and stronger. That’s why they go so early. 

 

Yet Alabama just got blown out by another College team.  Case closed.  They won’t win nor cover against a pro team.  It’s not even a question.