BillsFan1988 Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 16 hours ago, unbillievable said: What game where you watching? Peters was not good in pass protection. He was as dominant as an orange traffic cone. Philadelphia game planned around the bears pass rush. I think the better question was what gm u were watching bud? They left him 1 on 1 for the majority of the gm. JP did his job.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Never said he was a martyr, but the Bills played it terribly. Was Eugene Parker a negotiation killer anywhere else? He played the Bills his entire career because the Bills were a third rate organization towards the end of RWs years as owner. Dont want to play for the Bills anymore? Cool. Hold out and demand a trade and they will eventually cave and give you what you want. THATS the door that was opened. t was pretty bad for a while. How are people arguing it would've been foolish to pay a HOF LT what he deserved and wanted? ? That's a great tactic. Give me a new deal because I'm going to be a Hall of Famer. 2
wiskibreth Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) To this day, i just cant seem to understand by some fans still lament old trade deals/lost players. Edited January 8, 2019 by wiskibreth
Chicken Boo Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 22 hours ago, jahbonas said: In return for Peters we received Eric Wood (for 5 yrs on a rookie deal) + the millions in salary cap freed up each yr in not having highest paid LT in football I'd much rather have the Hall of Fame left tackle for the following 10 years.
Malazan Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 Who started a thread about who was GM when Peters was dealt because they don't know how Google works?
PromoTheRobot Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: He was already an established GREAT tackle. The Bills played it TERRIBLY. There is no argument really. They ***** it up which wasn't a surprise considering how the franchise was run in Wilsons later years. They were essentially an expansion team for the rest of the league. For some reason fans are still apologizing for them. Not sure why. He was a good tackle, certainly hall of fame in his mind and that of his agent Eugene Parker. Edited January 8, 2019 by PromoTheRobot
BADOLBILZ Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 9 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: You're entitled to your opinion, Badol. I have mine. You remember Peters as some kind of martyr. I remember him as selfish, signing a contract with the team that took a chance on him, then quitting on the team because he thought he was God's gift to football. Was Peters entitled to a raise? Yes. Were the Bills trying to keep his cost down? Yes. Could he have gone about getting it in a better way? Absolutely. Instead he quit on his team and teammates and forced the Bills' hand. As for Peters missing time with an Achilles injury, it only doesn't matter to you because he wasn't a Bill. Do you forget how down we were on Eric Wood for breaking his leg twice early in his career? How people even called him a bust and injury prone? I'm sure Bills fans would be soooo happy paying Peters $10MM/yr being on IR. We are such reasonable people. There's a reason I have a target in my avatar, Badol. You have it out for me. I suggest you relax. I don't remember Peters as a martyr.........I remember him as the greatest player(only will-be 1st ballot HOF'er) to suit up for the Bills this century though. You've earned your self-affixed target..........you talked massive amounts of sh*t on here for two decades...........peddling hate-filled propaganda in support since-proven-disastrous front office/coaching and now you are going to get called out. And speaking of martyrs........woe is you.......the only reason that you were even mentioned in this thread is because you had to "open your mouth and remove all doubt" about your ability to even be rational in retrospect. The guy is a first ballot HOF'er.........the GM was a disaster and later shamed out of the organization altogether..........the organizational policies of the time are now understood to be complete BS.........and yet you stick with your blame of the player. And btw.........I wouldn't even consider a suggestion from you until you show you can be accountable for your horshit takes of the drought era. Man-up for chrissakes............you and all the other apologists who vehemently defended all the harm done to this fanbase by bad management over the past two decades. 2 1 1
Maine-iac Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 I'm going to be honest and no one is going to like it but this is how I remember it. Peters was not that great. He flashed. He was a converted TE so he was quick and yet still strong but he gave up a ton of sacks, took plays off, and had a ton of penalties. He had only started for us a couple of years and the year we let him go was his worst for all of that. We had two horrible deals with Dockery and that other scrub from the Raiders so we weren't looking to over spend on another half hearted OL player and Peters wanted out badly. Was he super talented ......... absolutely. He also had a lot of bad plays especially for us. He continued the same problems the next couple of years for the Eagles also which is why I find it funny so many people love him now. Maybe because the Eagles are winning. 1
Rico Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I don't remember Peters as a martyr.........I remember him as the greatest player(only will-be 1st ballot HOF'er) to suit up for the Bills this century though. You've earned your self-affixed target..........you talked massive amounts of sh*t on here for two decades...........peddling hate-filled propaganda in support since-proven-disastrous front office/coaching and now you are going to get called out. And speaking of martyrs........woe is you.......the only reason that you were even mentioned in this thread is because you had to "open your mouth and remove all doubt" about your ability to even be rational in retrospect. The guy is a first ballot HOF'er.........the GM was a disaster and later shamed out of the organization altogether..........the organizational policies of the time are now understood to be complete BS.........and yet you stick with your blame of the player. And btw.........I wouldn't even consider a suggestion from you until you show you can be accountable for your horshit takes of the drought era. Man-up for chrissakes............you and all the other apologists who vehemently defended all the harm done to this fanbase by bad management over the past two decades. There are a lot of new posters in here since the BBMB board went down, and this thread and especially your posts have proven to be very educational in showing them just who among the long-time posters have had the most consistently WRONG takes in TSW history. Consider this a service, newbies. 3 1
boater Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 On 1/7/2019 at 6:26 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: Not to rehash all this but it was never clear cut one way or the other. The Bills gave Peters a nice contract after his first season as a RT. He wanted big time LT money. He held out and refused to return their phone calls and when he should up, he was completely out of shape. The Bills finally traded him and ended up with a decent return, I believe a 1st and something else. If the Pats did this, we would praise their culture and getting rid of me guys. I know it’s impossible to take the middle ground in any debate but I completely see both sides. Peters is a HOF and a freak. The Bills signed the guy as a UDFA TE and moved him. Peters also has had some major injuries and missed most of last year. But yup, that deal worked out well for them. This ^^^ I'm a bit bitter toward Peters because the Bills gave this UDFA a big break and he dominated...but later he wouldn't return any sort of hometown loyalty, he became all about the $$. No gratitude. Selfish prick. 1
JMF2006 Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 On 1/7/2019 at 6:16 PM, LSHMEAB said: Pretty sure it was Levy. Incorrect. Twas the great Russell Brandon. He wanted 10m per and I think the Bills were offering 5m which was a huge raise but not his true value.
JMF2006 Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) BTW anyone remember the the "Son of Mailman Malone" ? His last name was Bell and he was supposed to be Peters replacement and a sure fire HOFer with his bloodline. They kid was a turnstile Edited January 9, 2019 by JMF2006
BADOLBILZ Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, boater said: This ^^^ I'm a bit bitter toward Peters because the Bills gave this UDFA a big break and he dominated...but later he wouldn't return any sort of hometown loyalty, he became all about the $$. No gratitude. Selfish prick. Let's not pretend this was some off radar prospect............there were draft observers projecting him as a first rounder after an amazing performance at the combine. He left Arkansas early because he was being told he was going to be moved from TE to OT and drafted early. An Arkansas staff that rarely threw him the ball and yet was bitter about his early departure talked him down to teams. They said don't trust this guy because he wasn't willing to wait for his turn to be a bigger part of the offense........and hey, he's working out harder in the draft process than he did at Arkansas!(even though he was AT ARKANSAS working out with teammates and not off at some agent sponsored training facility). So he got the short end by the system..........instead of possibly getting a $10M+ signing bonus and 6 year contract that it's obvious now that his ability warranted.......he became a UDFA. Everyone knew he was the best athlete of the OT group in that draft..........he proved that........it's not like someone found him. So he agreed to sign with the Bills as a UDFA and the Bills hardly used him in preseason........not letting tape get out of his play.......and then CUT him with intent to stash him on the PS. Yep.......they actually cut the future HOF LT..........and Peters actually visited the Giants before joining the Bills practice squad and quickly earning his way onto the roster and just dominating the man in front of him. He even became probably the largest man to ever block a punt that year. Just a total freak athlete at that size. A little a year over later they coyly signed him to a RT level contract and then quickly moved him to LT. It's not like this dude slowly developed.........he was probably the best RT in football in his SECOND season..........and finished his THIRD season as the league's best LT. At each step in the college and draft process people were trying to put the brakes on his ascension..........it's easy to see why he got frustrated. Then he got to Philly and a smart staff paid him and whaddya know..........turns out he's viewed as not only a great player but a great teammate. As Andy Reid went on to say.........he was the "Peyton Manning" of offensive lineman. 1
dayman Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 People can say he was hurt and expensive and disgruntled and yada yada but we knew damn well Peters was great and we let him go. It was stupid. He's had a decade of excellent play since he's left and he's at a position where the money is worth it even you think you overpay.
GaryPinC Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 If memory serves, Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker, and Melvin freaking Fowler were all getting paid more than Peters. Some time later, there was an article mentioning that Dockery was caught watching Redskins game film in the Bills film room. I didn't like that Peters mailed it in his last season, but Jesus FC that O-line was dreadful and our by-far best linemen was one of the worst paid and also being disrespected by an incompetent organization. In the end, I can't fault the guy for forcing his way out.
WideNine Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Let's not pretend this was some off radar prospect............there were draft observers projecting him as a first rounder after an amazing performance at the combine. He left Arkansas early because he was being told he was going to be moved from TE to OT and drafted early. An Arkansas staff that rarely threw him the ball and yet was bitter about his early departure talked him down to teams. They said don't trust this guy because he wasn't willing to wait for his turn to be a bigger part of the offense........and hey, he's working out harder in the draft process than he did at Arkansas!(even though he was AT ARKANSAS working out with teammates and not off at some agent sponsored training facility). So he got the short end by the system..........instead of possibly getting a $10M+ signing bonus and 6 year contract that it's obvious now that his ability warranted.......he became a UDFA. Everyone knew he was the best athlete of the OT group in that draft..........he proved that........it's not like someone found him. So he agreed to sign with the Bills as a UDFA and the Bills hardly used him in preseason........not letting tape get out of his play.......and then CUT him with intent to stash him on the PS. Yep.......they actually cut the future HOF LT..........and Peters actually visited the Giants before joining the Bills practice squad and quickly earning his way onto the roster and just dominating the man in front of him. He even became probably the largest man to ever block a punt that year. Just a total freak athlete at that size. A little a year over later they coyly signed him to a RT level contract and then quickly moved him to LT. It's not like this dude slowly developed.........he was probably the best RT in football in his SECOND season..........and finished his THIRD season as the league's best LT. At each step in the college and draft process people were trying to put the brakes on his ascension..........it's easy to see why he got frustrated. Then he got to Philly and a smart staff paid him and whaddya know..........turns out he's viewed as not only a great player but a great teammate. As Andy Reid went on to say.........he was the "Peyton Manning" of offensive lineman. So everyone knew he was the best OT in the draft, yet every team let him slide and then let the Bills pick him up as an UFA??? It was not that he played TE for 2 years at Arkansas after being recruited as a defensive tackle and sitting out his freshman year as a reserve defensive linemen, and then entering the draft as an offensive lineman sans any actual experience as an offensive lineman that threw teams off? Could it be that he was just too flexible in regards to playing different positions that no teams knew how they would use him? I wont argue that Peters was an athletic freak and phenom, but he was a misfit too....at least early on. If he was all that and a known commodity from the get-go the Bills would not have been able to both cut him and stash him on their practice squad without some other team grabbing him. Rather than our slanted fan history that Peters had HOF Left Tackle printed on his undrafted FA packing slip, and that there was some conspiracy to keep the man down we could disagree forever... Or we could take Jason Peters own take at the time of the events. "Sometimes you can be too versatile that they can't find a spot for you, but I kept pushing," said Peters, the first Bills offensive lineman since Ruben Brown in 2003, and first offensive tackle since Howard Ballard in 1993, to be headed to the Pro Bowl. "I just go out and try to get better than I was the day before." That's when Peters asked former head coach Mike Mularkey to "put me in a spot and keep me there." You can read the whole interview prior to his pro-bowl here: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80546e70/article/undrafted-free-agent-peters-defies-odds-in-making-first-pro-bowl Did the Bills mishandle it, in hindsight of course they did...they should never have tied up the money they did into Williams who ate himself off the team, then Dockery and Walker in free agency, and Mike Gandy was not their answer at LT. They threw good money at middling to bad prospects and likely left little room for the emergence of Peters... At the time of Peters rather obvious unhappiness with his pay a lot of teams were interested in him. A disgruntled young pro-bowl Left Tackle, who wouldn't be? But not many could afford what Philly eventually agreed to pay. So it is fair to say that a lot of teams (not just the Bills) missed out on the services of Jason Peters. There is a lesson there if the Bills dive into FA o-linemen market this off season to not tie up so much of your cap that you cannot do right by the young players they are developing today. Since this thread seems to be devoted to the perfect clarity of hindsight - nice article on former Bills players and coaches represented in this years post season. As most things in life there are moves OBD has done past and fairly present that appear to be good moves (Kelvin Benjamin, Sammy Watkins) and then there are players and coaches that have found success elsewhere (they include Peters). https://www.newyorkupstate.com/expo/sports/g66l-2019/01/230e2cb6ba1364/many-former-buffalo-bills-play.html Edited January 9, 2019 by WideNine
Saxum Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 17 hours ago, BillsFan2313 said: The Bills signed Langston Walker to play RT, for more money than Peter's was making at LT. Bills should have paid the man what he deserved. Should you do that with every player who currently shows more than others making more than them? No. Players do not give money back if they do not perform. His agent could have included clause giving him bonuses if he was switched to LT so why did not Peters complain to agent?
dave mcbride Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 4 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said: Peters was injury prone and didn't wanna be in Buffalo. The Bills actually made the right decision when they decided to move on from him. Peters missed only two games due to "injury" in Buffalo -- his final two, right after the Bills had been eliminated from the playoffs and (presumably) becasue the organization was bent on keeping him healthy in order to extract max draft capital (which they did). Otherwise, he was extremely healthy in Buffalo.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 22 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said: I think the better question was what gm u were watching bud? They left him 1 on 1 for the majority of the gm. JP did his job. I agree, JP basically shut Mack down by himself. Bruce got shut down by Webb a few game's too, a few. Note to The Bean, if you ever find a LT like JP you pay him what he wants.
BillsFan2313 Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 8 hours ago, Limeaid said: Should you do that with every player who currently shows more than others making more than them? No. Players do not give money back if they do not perform. His agent could have included clause giving him bonuses if he was switched to LT so why did not Peters complain to agent? Langston Walker couldn't hold Peter's jock now or back then. Peters played at a high level, at a more premium position, and he sees the less superior position make more than him. This also includes Derek Dockery. Instead of signing those two bums, the money should have been spent on Peters.
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