The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 I was reading the other day that the Tennesee Titans consider Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, etc members of their Hall of Fame. I find that ridiculous as none of those guys played a down in Tennessee. I know legally speaking, they're allowed to do that. But ethically speaking. Should they keep team history like the Titans, Colts, etc. Or adopt a whole new identity so a future expansion team can pick them up, a la, When the Browns became the Ravens?
BrotherChazz Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Well, I wouldn't consider them part of the Texans franchise...so yeah..makes sense to me. Maybe it's better and easier when tied to a franchise that exists now with the same name, but is a new team? Like The Browns/Jim Brown? Edited January 7, 2019 by BrotherChazz 1
Jamie Nails Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 So by the same logic Jim Brown is/was a Raven? At least during the period when Cleveland didn't have a team?
BrotherChazz Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Jamie Nails said: So by the same logic Jim Brown is/was a Raven? At least during the period when Cleveland didn't have a team? Ha, just had that thought myself.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: I was reading the other day that the Tennesee Titans consider Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, etc members of their Hall of Fame. I find that ridiculous as none of those guys played a down in Tennessee. I know legally speaking, they're allowed to do that. But ethically speaking. Should they keep team history like the Titans, Colts, etc. Or adopt a whole new identity so a future expansion team can pick them up, a la, When the Browns became the Ravens? Doth Earl Campbell and Warren Moon cease to exist as long as the Houston Oilers are not a thing? Did they disappear from their family pictures when the team moved? This is deep... 2 3 2 1
Rochesterfan Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jamie Nails said: So by the same logic Jim Brown is/was a Raven? At least during the period when Cleveland didn't have a team? Nope because part of the deal when the team left Cleveland was that all team history and name was left behind in Cleveland. Baltimore even though they were the same players as in Cleveland started out as a new team and a new identity in Baltimore. I wish more moves were legally forced to do this. 10 1 1
Simon Says Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 it wasnt really a 'new" team,as there was carryover in personnel and management in the geographical move. They were the Tennessee OILERs for a couple years, but gave into the new fan base and changed the name. The history moves to the new city. I know Warren moon felt weird getting honored by the Titans for his induction into the hall of fame. Personally, its not something i think about,and I lived in Houston from 1977 to 1980.
corta765 Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 So a few things: The Browns actually maintain the history of the previous incarnation. There was a lawsuit which the city of Cleveland won keeping the history and colors there. The Ravens are effectively an expansion team that just got a lot of players and personal. Houston has tried to get the history back but Bud Adams didn't want to give it up. I agree its dumb that players are honored in cities they never played it and feels very backwards to me. The Ravens actually honored Johnny Unitas when he passed and I believe a statue exists in Baltimore for him. Probably the weirdest strangest dumbest of all sports is the Arizona Coyotes in the NHL carry the linage of the Winnipeg Jets of old...even though a new Jets team exists who carries the linage of the Atlanta Thrashers. Overall its stupid when teams move IMO if you move the history and colors stay in that city and you rebrand. 3
Nextmanup Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jamie Nails said: So by the same logic Jim Brown is/was a Raven? At least during the period when Cleveland didn't have a team? Sort of. Jim Brown was not a Raven; but the Ravens are the current iteration of the team Jim Brown played for. From a legal perspective, the entity that used to be in Houston for many years is the same entity that now plays in Nashville. The team that currently plays in Houston, called the Houston Texans, is a new, entirely different entity with its own (brief) history not involving Warren Moon or Earl Campbell or Bum Phillips or lots of other people. 1
RochesterRob Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: I was reading the other day that the Tennesee Titans consider Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, etc members of their Hall of Fame. I find that ridiculous as none of those guys played a down in Tennessee. I know legally speaking, they're allowed to do that. But ethically speaking. Should they keep team history like the Titans, Colts, etc. Or adopt a whole new identity so a future expansion team can pick them up, a la, When the Browns became the Ravens? I can see the argument for both sides but I think that the fans of the city that got ditched should be able to pick up where they left off. For me this holds especially true for the Oilers and Houston. I don't think that in the last few years that Tennessee has even done Oilers throwbacks. So in my mind they have pretty moved on from that part of their history. For me if a team wants to keep a former identity then they should honor it on some basis but that could get very complicated with the Ravens and the current Browns. Other than a couple infrequent games the Jets have ignored their NY Titans heritage. Which is understandable for the Jets but the Oilers have had a few proud eras in their history worth remembering.
Gugny Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: Doth Earl Campbell and Warren Moon cease to exist as long as the Houston Oilers are not a thing? Did they disappear from their family pictures when the team moved? This is deep... I hope it wasn't when they were playing "Earth Angel!" 1
Cripple Creek Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: I was reading the other day that the Tennesee Titans consider Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, etc members of their Hall of Fame. I find that ridiculous as none of those guys played a down in Tennessee. I know legally speaking, they're allowed to do that. But ethically speaking. Should they keep team history like the Titans, Colts, etc. Or adopt a whole new identity so a future expansion team can pick them up, a la, When the Browns became the Ravens? stop reading 1
Rochesterfan Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Sort of. Jim Brown was not a Raven; but the Ravens are the current iteration of the team Jim Brown played for. From a legal perspective, the entity that used to be in Houston for many years is the same entity that now plays in Nashville. The team that currently plays in Houston, called the Houston Texans, is a new, entirely different entity with its own (brief) history not involving Warren Moon or Earl Campbell or Bum Phillips or lots of other people. This is not correct - Cleveland sued to keep the history and colors of the Browns. This forced the Baltimore team to get a new name and they have no history of people/players that were in Cleveland before. For example: Belicheck was Cleveland’s Head Coach is is not a Head Coach of record in Baltimore for the Ravens because the team history did not travel. Jim Brown has no history or connection to the Ravens. Edited January 7, 2019 by Rochesterfan 1 1
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 7, 2019 Author Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: I can see the argument for both sides but I think that the fans of the city that got ditched should be able to pick up where they left off. For me this holds especially true for the Oilers and Houston. I don't think that in the last few years that Tennessee has even done Oilers throwbacks. So in my mind they have pretty moved on from that part of their history. For me if a team wants to keep a former identity then they should honor it on some basis but that could get very complicated with the Ravens and the current Browns. Other than a couple infrequent games the Jets have ignored their NY Titans heritage. Which is understandable for the Jets but the Oilers have had a few proud eras in their history worth remembering. We played the Titans a few years back in preseason, in the Hall of Fame game. They wanted to honor AFL teams, so we wore our standing buffalo throwbacks, and they wore Houston Oilers throwbacks. I thought it was odd. I was watching with my dad, and he was talking about how much the jerseys brought back memories from when he grew up watching the Bills in those. Even if you're a die hard Titans fan, unless it's by some other coincidence, the Oilers jerseys/name/etc don't really have a nostalgic connection to you. Although to be fair, living in Houston, I have met a small handful of Titans fans that stuck with the team after they left. Then you also have teams like the Utah Jazz, which is just a stupid name for a team based in a state of primarily Caucasian Mormons. Edited January 7, 2019 by The Real Buffalo Joe 1
fansince88 Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: I was reading the other day that the Tennesee Titans consider Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, etc members of their Hall of Fame. I find that ridiculous as none of those guys played a down in Tennessee. I know legally speaking, they're allowed to do that. But ethically speaking. Should they keep team history like the Titans, Colts, etc. Or adopt a whole new identity so a future expansion team can pick them up, a la, When the Browns became the Ravens? Because the Titans were the Oilers then yes. Houston Texans were an expansion team not an extension of the Oilers
RochesterRob Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: We played the Titans a few years back in preseason, in the Hall of Fame game. They wanted to honor AFL teams, so we wore our standing buffalo throwbacks, and they wore Houston Oilers throwbacks. I thought it was odd. I was watching with my dad, and he was talking about how much the jerseys brought back memories from when he grew up watching the Bills in those. Even if you're a die hard Titans fan, unless it's by some other coincidence, the Oilers jerseys/name/etc don't really have a nostalgic connection to you. Although to be fair, living in Houston, I have met a small handful of Titans fans that stuck with the team after they left. Then you also have teams like the Utah Jazz, which is just a stupid name for a team based in a state of primarily Caucasian Mormons. That Hall of Fame game was in 2009 so almost ten years ago. I don't recall the Titans doing anything with their Oilers past after that. I know I can't impose my will on a group of billionaires but if I could it would mean that if you move and change the name then the records and identity of the old name stays with the old city.
Never NEVER Give-up Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 In my worthless opinion, I think the Colts name belongs to Baltimore, Browns to Cleveland, Rams to LA (Cleveland was before my time - LOL), Cardinals to St. Louis (if they ever get another team) and Oilers belong to Houston. Raiders should adopt a new name if/when they go to Vegas. Raiders belong to Oakland. Expansion/relocating franchises should get fresh starts with new names. If/when a former NFL city gets a new team, it should be able to resume with the historical nickname of their former team. The Ravens s/b the Colts and the Indy franchise should be the Shuckers, Hoosiers or something else. 17 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: We played the Titans a few years back in preseason, in the Hall of Fame game. They wanted to honor AFL teams, so we wore our standing buffalo throwbacks, and they wore Houston Oilers throwbacks. I thought it was odd. I was watching with my dad, and he was talking about how much the jerseys brought back memories from when he grew up watching the Bills in those. Even if you're a die hard Titans fan, unless it's by some other coincidence, the Oilers jerseys/name/etc don't really have a nostalgic connection to you. Although to be fair, living in Houston, I have met a small handful of Titans fans that stuck with the team after they left. Then you also have teams like the Utah Jazz, which is just a stupid name for a team based in a state of primarily Caucasian Mormons. Oh yeah - I so agree with you on the Jazz. It was a great and fitting name for the New Orleans franchise. When the Pelicans re-entered the league, they should have had the option to "buy" or "claim" their Jazz name. On the plus side for Utah - they could have taken advantage of all the marketing gimmicks associated with adopting a new name and identity. 3
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 7, 2019 Author Posted January 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, Never NEVER Give-up said: In my worthless opinion, I think the Colts name belongs to Baltimore, Browns to Cleveland, Rams to LA (Cleveland was before my time - LOL), Cardinals to St. Louis (if they ever get another team) and Oilers belong to Houston. Raiders should adopt a new name if/when they go to Vegas. Raiders belong to Oakland. Expansion/relocating franchises should get fresh starts with new names. If/when a former NFL city gets a new team, it should be able to resume with the historical nickname of their former team. The Ravens s/b the Colts and the Indy franchise should be the Shuckers, Hoosiers or something else. Oh yeah - I so agree with you on the Jazz. It was a great and fitting name for the New Orleans franchise. When the Pelicans re-entered the league, they should have had the option to "buy" or "claim" their Jazz name. On the plus side for Utah - they could have taken advantage of all the marketing gimmicks associated with adopting a new name and identity. What's cool is technically the Kansas City Chiefs were originally the Dallas Texans. So technically they could deny the Texans their name, or charge them a ridiculous amount. They charge them $1 a year. 1
vorpma Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: I was reading the other day that the Tennesee Titans consider Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, etc members of their Hall of Fame. I find that ridiculous as none of those guys played a down in Tennessee. I know legally speaking, they're allowed to do that. But ethically speaking. Should they keep team history like the Titans, Colts, etc. Or adopt a whole new identity so a future expansion team can pick them up, a la, When the Browns became the Ravens? No! I remain an ardent AFL fan and the Titans have no right, IMHO, to do that! Houston made the Titans!
McNubbins Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 I think it has to do with the fans. I know Houston football fans that still want the Oilers back. Imagine if the Bills had left Buffalo and we didn't have a team, then got a new one. Would we still not think fondly on the days of Jim Kelly?
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